Pakistan should have Satellite-Killer Missile System

[XYON]

Chinese recently tested the satellite buster missile system and that too very successfully. I think that Pakistan should vigorously follow this program with the Chinese help. It will be more beneficial to knock out the proverbial eye-in-the-sky such as the one being launched by India with Israeli help. This technology for Pakistan would be a great measure to ensure national security and any perceived threats of GPS jamming or enemy satellite recon during war times. Lets have some thoughts of the fellow-bloggers here?

 

[Patriot]

Agreed! Pakistan should acquire Anti Sat Missile from China!

 

[paritosh]

the chinese had the clear coordinates of their target satellite...i mean they knew it's elevation and all...it's speed and exact instantaneous position...so guiding their missile was easy.cus you cant design a fire-and-forget missile like a heat seeking missile...or a radar guided missile...you need to leak(or hack?) into the satellite network to get it's data.

if the operator of the satellite comes to know of the breach or a threat....the position of the satellite can be altered...and then you'd have to start all over again....what the chinese demonstrated was IMO their ability to strike outside space...more of a symbol.

 

[Patriot]

the chinese had the clear coordinates of their target satellite...i mean they knew it's elevation and all...it's speed and exact instantaneous position...so guiding their missile was easy.cus you cant design a fire-and-forget missile like a heat seeking missile...or a radar guided missile...you need to leak(or hack?) into the satellite network to get it's data.

if the operator of the satellite comes to know of the breach or a threat....the position of the satellite can be altered...and then you'd have to start all over again....what the chinese demonstrated was IMO their ability to strike outside space...more of a symbol.

That's a good point.How will we identify Indian Sattelite orbital location.

 

[Awesome]

the chinese had the clear coordinates of their target satellite...i mean they knew it's elevation and all...it's speed and exact instantaneous position...so guiding their missile was easy.cus you cant design a fire-and-forget missile like a heat seeking missile...or a radar guided missile...you need to leak(or hack?) into the satellite network to get it's data.

if the operator of the satellite comes to know of the breach or a threat....the position of the satellite can be altered...and then you'd have to start all over again....what the chinese demonstrated was IMO their ability to strike outside space...more of a symbol.

Why wouldn't a radar work?

 

[paritosh]

dude...a uwave based radar cannot work like a normal threat detection radar...though sat comm does happen through uwaves...but in the latter case...we know the apogee and elevation and azimuth angle...so we are specific in the antenna direction...but to detect(the work of a radar)...we'd need a very very powerful radar beam..to penetrate the atmosphere and detect the sat which would have a rcs of believe me 1/100th of a tennis ball...!
so it cant be done with the conventional radar..
but an indian scientist claims to have solved this problem with a laser radar...
Interkosmos laser radar for satellite tracking
but personally i see a problem with this...
we all are aware of the em spectrum...right?
now theres a general rule with radars...the mre the wavelenght the less defeatable the radar is...a laser radar would have a very small wavelength...and so even the most basic stealth techniques on a sat would make it invisible...

 

[paritosh]

and pluss all satellites have a very high orbital speed...
of around 20000km/hr(mv*v/r=G*msat*mearth/r*r)...so impossible if you dont know where the satellite is exactly gonna be in the next instant...not possible otherwise with today's missile tech.
so if pakistan has to destroy say...india's sat...your ISI would be more handy imo...to get the data out of the indian base-stations.

 

[XYON]

The same principal that is used by the US Patriot Missile Battery can be replicated with some fine adjustments on taking down a satellite. One can predict the standard trajectory of the satellite and use the missile accordingly. You however need a good tracker either on the ground or in space (thermal or synthetic aperture) to monitor and predict the satellite track before going for the kill shot! So its not an impossible task and is rather achievable!

 

[paritosh]

it indeed is very difficult to shoot a satellite in orbit epool.
i will explain...
the conventional method is very inaccurate for a country to shoot a satellite by launching a missile...as the satellite travels at a an orbital velocity of almost 20k kms per hr...and each maneuver takes approximately 12-20 hrs just to be detected....you cant obtain a radar lock on the satellite(with today's tech) neither can you get a significant heat signature(the panels might be hot) but there is a very large chance that the missile would miss..
now...i came across this intresting article...there is a way to destroy a satellite and it's very easy...you pakistanis'd love it...
Satellite Countermeasures - TIME
excerpts from the article...
"Dr. Thomas does not propose to shoot a missile directly at the satellite. A hit would be unlikely. Instead, he thinks, the attacking power should shoot a smallish rocket into the satellite's orbit, but in the opposite direction. The rocket (estimated cost: $1,000,000) would be launched when the satellite was on the far side of the earth. When still a quarter revolution (7,792 miles) away from the approaching satellite, its warhead would burst.

The warhead would contain only a mixture of weak gunpowder and fine particles of lead or steel. The particles would spread into a cloud, which would continue moving in the orbit. By the time the cloud reached the satellite, it would-be 70,000 ft. in diameter—so large that the satellite would be almost sure to pass through it. The particles would be thinly spread, but Dr. Thomas figures that at least one in a million would hit the satellite.

How large must the particles be? Dr. Thomas, an expert on ballistics, points out that their speed when they hit the satellite would be about 46,000 ft. per sec. (31,000 m.p.h.). At this enormous, meteorlike speed, he figures, a particle only five-thousandths of an inch in diameter would punch through the satellite's skin. Since each pound of metal contains more than a million such particles, a warhead weighing 8,000 Ibs. would punch 8.000 holes in the satellite station. The deadly little particles would be moving in slightly elliptical orbits around the earth. They would scatter widely, then concentrate again. Each time the damaged satellite circled the earth, it would run into the cloud of particles at the same point in its orbit, get 8,000 more hits, and soon begin to look like a cheese grater."

 

[XYON]

it indeed is very difficult to shoot a satellite in orbit epool.
i will explain...
the conventional method is very inaccurate for a country to shoot a satellite by launching a missile...as the satellite travels at a an orbital velocity of almost 20k kms per hr...and each maneuver takes approximately 12-20 hrs just to be detected....you cant obtain a radar lock on the satellite(with today's tech) neither can you get a significant heat signature(the panels might be hot) but there is a very large chance that the missile would miss..
now...i came across this intresting article...there is a way to destroy a satellite and it's very easy...you pakistanis'd love it...
Satellite Countermeasures - TIME
excerpts from the article...
"Dr. Thomas does not propose to shoot a missile directly at the satellite. A hit would be unlikely. Instead, he thinks, the attacking power should shoot a smallish rocket into the satellite's orbit, but in the opposite direction. The rocket (estimated cost: $1,000,000) would be launched when the satellite was on the far side of the earth. When still a quarter revolution (7,792 miles) away from the approaching satellite, its warhead would burst.

The warhead would contain only a mixture of weak gunpowder and fine particles of lead or steel. The particles would spread into a cloud, which would continue moving in the orbit. By the time the cloud reached the satellite, it would-be 70,000 ft. in diameter—so large that the satellite would be almost sure to pass through it. The particles would be thinly spread, but Dr. Thomas figures that at least one in a million would hit the satellite.

How large must the particles be? Dr. Thomas, an expert on ballistics, points out that their speed when they hit the satellite would be about 46,000 ft. per sec. (31,000 m.p.h.). At this enormous, meteorlike speed, he figures, a particle only five-thousandths of an inch in diameter would punch through the satellite's skin. Since each pound of metal contains more than a million such particles, a warhead weighing 8,000 Ibs. would punch 8.000 holes in the satellite station. The deadly little particles would be moving in slightly elliptical orbits around the earth. They would scatter widely, then concentrate again. Each time the damaged satellite circled the earth, it would run into the cloud of particles at the same point in its orbit, get 8,000 more hits, and soon begin to look like a cheese grater."

When we say to 'shoot' a satellite, it does not necessarily mean point-to-point . The 'shrapnel' effect that you have mentioned above is already being used by Patriot Missile and in Tank defensive weapon systems such as the Russian Shtura. The aim is to create a solid clutter field or steel curtain in front of the projectile so that the shrapnel 'shreds' through the sensitive infrastructure of the speeding projectile making it mostly or completely non-functional (The Swiss Cheese Effect). What you have suggested above can be improvised in many ways and by using multiple warheads to cover various orbiting distances. So thank you for the article, we will use your valuable advise as and when and make sure you get the credit when your spy sat comes tumbling down!

 

[batmannow]

well, i 'll vote for the weapon!
go pakistan go!:tup:

 

[paritosh]

So thank you for the article, we will use your valuable advise as and when and make sure you get the credit when your spy sat comes tumbling down!

oops! i got carried away....hehe now we are good neighbors are we not?we would do no such thing...

 

[XYON]

and pluss all satellites have a very high orbital speed...
of around 20000km/hr(mv*v/r=G*msat*mearth/r*r)...so impossible if you dont know where the satellite is exactly gonna be in the next instant...not possible otherwise with today's missile tech.
so if pakistan has to destroy say...india's sat...your ISI would be more handy imo...to get the data out of the indian base-stations.

Thanks Again! We are having our 'deep cover' spooks in ISRO already working on it! Man! you are desperate to get credit for this job are'nt you?

 

[paritosh]

hahaha...sure am...

 

[Always Neutral]

Chinese recently tested the satellite buster missile system and that too very successfully. I think that Pakistan should vigorously follow this program with the Chinese help. It will be more beneficial to knock out the proverbial eye-in-the-sky such as the one being launched by India with Israeli help. This technology for Pakistan would be a great measure to ensure national security and any perceived threats of GPS jamming or enemy satellite recon during war times. Lets have some thoughts of the fellow-bloggers here?

I think to much reliance is put on China help. Most sources say China is as wary of the growing strength of Taliban as the West. Why would they give such technology to Pakistan.

Regards