Pakistan should decide if it wants to talk to India or the separatists: Arun Jaitley

[Bang Galore]

we
im not talking about FS meeting . Pakistan since many decade meet from huriyat . Evertime when Pakistan PM visit India they visit Huriyat. After such a long tym PM nawaz sharif decided not to meet them. That was taken as a sign of weakness and futher pressurize Pakistan. Nawaz sharif was expecting that by doing this he will create good will in India. But he was disappointed by indian response. He sensed that BJP dnt want to improve dialog and back home he was criticized for this friendly gesture. Seeing no response from India he regerted his decision and talk about Kashmir in UN. that is how it happened .

Nawaz took a bold step to go india after modhi was elected . He is seen as RSS back radical extremist in muslim community all over the world. But to normalize relationship he took all that critizsim and walked an extra mile . But what what did he get from visit nothing. Infact hostile indian media and diplomats tried to show that modhi was tough on Pakistan.

You are missing a key point. Modi put out a hand towards NS & Pakistan inspite of some fairly tough rhetoric before becoming PM. Subsequently, after the meeting with NS, he agreed to a meeting of the Foreign Secretaries. That is as big a step as can be taken & what did your government do? Grandstanding is all they did. The Hurriyat meeting is a red line drawn by this government & in any case there was no occasion for the Pakistani HC to meet them supposedly for consultation when Kashmir wasn't even being discussed. Further more, NS has been harping back to the Lahore agreement and refusing to continue where Musharraf left off. That is pretty much unacceptable to the government of India (both this & the previous one) but what finally led to the collapse was the repeated ceasefire violations which GoI saw as a means of applying pressure before the FS's meeting. NS & his team had been told that ceasefire violations would not be tolerated and when it happened, GoI decided that NS wasn't keeping his word or that the PA was not listening to him. Either way, talks would serve no purpose in such a situation, especially with NS under siege in his own capital.

While you look at events from a Pakistani perspective, it would be better not to get carried away by all this rhetoric about Modi. You need to step back from demonising the Indian PM to looking at facts as it exists.

 

[Jzaib]

You are missing a key point. Modi put out a hand towards NS & Pakistan inspite of some fairly tough rhetoric before becoming PM. Subsequently, after the meeting with NS, he agreed to a meeting of the Foreign Secretaries. That is as big a step as can be taken & what did your government do? Grandstanding is all they did. The Hurriyat meeting is a red line drawn by this government & in any case there was no occasion for the Pakistani HC to meet them supposedly for consultation when Kashmir wasn't even being discussed. Further more, NS has been harping back to the Lahore agreement and refusing to continue where Musharraf left off. That is pretty much unacceptable to the government of India (both this & the previous one) but what finally led to the collapse was the repeated ceasefire violations which GoI saw as a means of applying pressure before the FS's meeting. NS & his team had been told that ceasefire violations would not be tolerated and when it happened, GoI decided that NS wasn't keeping his word or that the PA was not listening to him. Either way, talks would serve no purpose in such a situation, especially with NS under siege in his own capital.

While you look at events from a Pakistani perspective, it would be better not to get carried away by all this rhetoric about Modi. You need to step back from demonising the Indian PM to looking at facts as it exists.

how is it the hand of friendship. Spreading venom against Pakistan during elections, when he won he invited most of south asin countries and Pakistan was one of them.
Pakistan was never told of any red line . It was used as an excuse to derail dialog
source for thrid high lighted part. That is just in ur mind. there is no where when india said they want to do it. Musharraf was there., He came india to sign the deal . But indian hawks didnt let that happen. When the treaty was about to be signed indian side asked for extra time, musharraf waited 2 hours, then they asked for more time , after that time finished he was informed that there is so much pressure so it is delayed . Show me one statement from modhi or BJP where they said that musharraf solution acceptable. Stop watching arunb Goswami bro. Most of ur information is wrong. Im saying as a neutral person not as a pakustan . do google about the musharraf incident . may be u find some good info and u will know who is at fault

for the last part, it only exsit in the mind of indians . being a son of high ranking army officer im telling u that ... still u have heard that so many times in ur propoganda news and movies i know u will not believe it .

 

[sathya]

Jzaib

come on man
how do you feel, when Indian delegate serious about peace, comes to Pakistan and then visit separatists in Azad Kashmir

 

[Bang Galore]

how is it the hand of friendship. Spreading venom against Pakistan during elections, when he won he invited most of south asin countries and Pakistan was one of them.
Pakistan was never told of any red line . It was used as an excuse to derail dialog
source for thrid high lighted part. That is just in ur mind. there is no where when india said they want to do it. Musharraf was there., He came india to sign the deal . But indian hawks didnt let that happen. When the treaty was about to be signed indian side asked for extra time, musharraf waited 2 hours, then they asked for more time , after that time finished he was informed that there is so much pressure so it is delayed . Show me one statement from modhi or BJP where they said that musharraf solution acceptable. Stop watching arunb Goswami bro. Most of ur information is wrong. Im saying as a neutral person not as a pakustan . do google about the musharraf incident . may be u find some good info and u will know who is at fault

for the last part, it only exsit in the mind of indians . being a son of high ranking army officer im telling u that ... still u have heard that so many times in ur propoganda news and movies i know u will not believe it .

I'm not in the habit of talking through my hat. There is a red line(meeting with the Hurriyat) drawn by this government. As for Musharraf's solution, the reason it failed is not because of any Indian delay though PM MMS did not go to Pakistan to sign agreements on Sir Creek etc but that Musharraf rapidly lost control with the lawyer's agitation. (you are confusing Agra talks of 2001 with the Musharraf-MMS deal - around 2007)The PPP government that followed backed off from the deal and Kayani withdrew his support. When that happened, the Indian government decided that there is no point because some future government in pakistan could renege on any deal signed or the army could stir up trouble. That's why talks on this matter now go nowhere. I never said that Musharraf's deal would have been signed now but that Sharif actually expects territorial concessions, something that is laughed at & not taken seriously by the GoI. No government spokesperson in India will ever discuss publicly any prospective solution. However the Musharraf-MMS deal is pretty much the maximum that any government in India will go & if non-serious ideas emanate from Pakistan, even that will be off the table.

Don't bother with the bit about how you know more because of your family connections etc. Let's not waste time going personal here. I deal with the facts as available. If you have an alternative line, put it out & we will discuss it. Also i prefer if you deal with the points raised rather than comment on my imagined viewing choices etc.

 

[Lostsoldier]

Mind telling me from your little brain, what 'people' are you referring too.

Hope you are not assuming the likes of British and Americans, who lied on Iraq having WMD bombs or invading Afghanistan on the pretext, that those 9/11 hijackers whom none, were either Pakistanis or Afghanis came to invade a land on a previous CIA Arab agent, and yet in the process of winning, got defeated fourth time in a row for the British and an utter humiliation for the most powerful super power US in the graveyard of empires called, the Af-Pak region.


India is the reason terrorism and state sponsored barbaric brutalities exist in the South-Central Subcontinent region. India is the reason, which has stereotypes electing infertile, impotent Prime Minister in the shape of Modis who belong to Hindutva RSS terrorist groups, with eloquent CV of Prime Minister having murderous history of conducting terrorism against the Muslims of Gujarat.


Who the f... are you Indians to tell Pakistanis about its red lines, our politicians may be complacent & idiots, but not the 180 million Pakistanis. We give two hoots to your supposed red lines and your weapons races. Pakistan is very comfortably showing bloodied nose every time India crosses its peaceful stature and conducts cross-border terrorists activities. If you are on for a weapons race, Pakistani quality outshines everything India has right now, which has kept it at bay for 67 years, and by your own media and defense analyst admittance, India has lost edge over Pakistan. If there was anything ur insecure weapons race would have done to Pakistan, Pakistan would have been suppressed, divided into many parts, and Indians would actually had courage not to ran away on 2002, 2008 standoffs.

Infact, why not India try its muscle again, Modi and its clowns of ministers from UN, to political help from UK and then to US-India secret meetings, all to isolate Pakistan with repeated cross border terrorism and RAW initiated bombs, has not, I repeat has not had a dime effect on us Pakistanis, Pakistan are not deterred, they will never surrender. Tell me, How many more times India needs to be defeated? Do you have guts to start another aggression on Pakistan? You are a weak divided country....and the more you talk loud and back-stabbing tactics, the more weaknesses Indians exposes itself to us.

Fact is, There is no hatred for India, only because putting India to its rightful place as it has been past 1000 years is the cause here. As sometimes India gets serious traumas of trying to invade and conduct hegemonic attacks on Pakistan time and again, Pakistan is forced to snub and shut up India. Be a nice little pet in your own little home, and all will be very well, peace and calm. You live in your own house, and let us Pakistanis live in our own house, we have no aspirations to become a super power, only respects, right to life and dignity among the community of nations is its goal.

Except nukes you can't match india.Ok tell me about your twin engine jets,aircraft carriers and stealthy naval warships.