Pakistan should be named 'People's Republic of Pakistan'

[Contrarian]

I disagree.. renaming will achieve nothing.. nor does it have anything to do with stopping the Islamic way of life. Sure, if one is to follow an approach taken for a product and we consider Pakistan as a product to be rebranded and sold again to the public.. people may still reject it if it still tastes like crap. Unless you fix how Pakistan tastes.. you can call it the Humanitarian republic of Pakistan and there will still be gross disregard and misconduct by the Humans living in it; for their lives and those of others.

And this is my point, that changing the law drives change in society however slowly. It is called a top down approach of governance.

There can be a bottom up approach as well. But in societies like ours, those who are educated should strive for more than what the public wants, they should push the general public in a certain direction.

If the Pakistani constitution absolutely unequivocally declares that all its subjects are equals in every sense of every word and Pakistan is a People's republic, then there will be change - it may be too slow to be visible, but it will happen nonetheless.

There are examples throughout history of how this works. It is a natural evolution of a State. Why do you presume it will not in Pakistan?

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Mutiny was started my both Muslims and Hindus. Heard of Mangal Pandey ? Tantia tope ? Rani Lakshmi Bai ? I won't be surprised if they don't teach about them in your hisotry books.

Even during the British conquest of India, the British had to battle the Sikhs and Marathas multiple times without which they could never have conquered most of India since most of India was under the Marathas back then.

Thirdly and most importantly, those were achievements of Indian Muslims, Battle of Plassey happened in Bengal. The Muslims involved in the mutiny of 1857 were muslims of Delhi, UP & Bihar. They were our Indian Muslims, Not Punjabi Muslims or Sindhi Muslims of modern day Pakistan. you have the right to take pride in their achievement with them being Muslim and all but you can't claim them exclusively. similarly Tipu was a South Indian muslim. Indian pride.

Very importantly the most well known freedom fighters of India were Gandhi, Subhash Chadra Bose, Bhagat Singh, Rajguru, Azad etc. Mostly all Non-Muslims. These are the Indian freedom fighters popular worldwide.

Oh chacha common even u people dont buy that crap when i talk abt same topic with u.

The first ever liberation struggle was started in pakistan in 1831 by syed ahmed shaheed in Balakot. Rest r just its extensions time to time upto 1913's tehreek e Reshmi Rumal. We did that uptill 1920 debacle and after that we didnt done much for united india as we came to the conclusion that living with non muslim if 1000s of years havnt changed them so how will it change after Brits so came Pakistan. The leaders u mentioned r leaders of yr country only and came afterwards atleast after debacle of Tehreek e Reshmi Rumal, hence no real Muslim is there nor r they accepted freedom fighters in our country.

 

[Kompromat]

I never said we don't need democracy. How can you call Pakistan a democratic country where there is no justice, high courts are unreachable for the common people. Few families rule in rural areas with iron fists. They decide who will vote for who. Tell me how many percentage of eligible voters actually vote? How many fake votes are there?

What i am trying to say is it will take time for Pakistan to become anywhere near a democracy. I laugh when corrupt politicians come on live tv and say this is democracy so let us loot the country more, next time round you can elect my relatives and friends from the other parties so they can loot the country even more. As i said earlier, Democracy is a mindset. Is Pakistnai society ready for democracy?

Why the obsession with Islam?

People's attitudes are just fine and we have seen a great degree of evolution in our society. This Muslim generation in Pakistan is the most highly educated Muslim generation in S.Asian history. Please don't be so pessimistic. When i get to create a Pakistan we want there would be a place for Ahmadis for they stood with us for freedom. I am not so sure about the others who think that we will give our meal to them after cooking it for two odd centuries....not happening.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

May be they played smart and avoided the jail time. What matters is what they got at the end, not how they got it. And just because u have a certain biased, and are told that we are thought so and so, dont mean that ur deluded version is the right one. Now well or u might be judging who did what based on the jail time they had served.

they dont even know Ghandhi was mostly jailed in london for his fascinations in brothels. Even still his arrest warrants r preserved in India House in London.

 

[himalayah]

We defeated/destroyed/oppressed opposing cultures to have our own show. Since we have our own show, Despite what you like to think, this meal is ours and we shall eat it. There is no other way than our highway, everyone else has to tag along or find their own alleyway. Don't worry too much about my ancestry, i am more indigenous to my land than you are.

Contradictions. You defeated/destroyed/oppressed the native cultures. So then you are clearly not indigenous, correct? You are more indigenous to the land than myself? Are you Australoid tribal or Dravidian? Then maybe. But guaranteed, unless you are a dalit or converted from the one of the hindu varnas/gotras, then you are not more indigenous to the land than myself, considering both sides of my family migrated from West Punjab and Chitral.

 

[baajey]

they dont even know Ghandhi was mostly jailed in london for his fascinations in brothels. Even still his arrest warrants r preserved in India House in London.

are u serious ???
can provide some sort of link/confirmation/more of the story.
our bapuji was so tharkee, i didnt know.

 

[SQ8]

And this is my point, that changing the law drives change in society however slowly. It is called a top down approach of governance.

There can be a bottom up approach as well. But in societies like ours, those who are educated should strive for more than what the public wants, they should push the general public in a certain direction.

If the Pakistani constitution absolutely unequivocally declares that all its subjects are equals in every sense of every word and Pakistan is a People's republic, then there will be change - it may be too slow to be visible, but it will happen nonetheless.

There are examples throughout history of how this works. It is a natural evolution of a State. Why do you presume it will not in Pakistan?

Because the state's laws will not change due to mindset of the people that form its populous and ipso-facto.. those that govern it.
Declaring Pakistan equal in every sense of the word in the constitution will still not stop religious fanatics(or any exploitative vested interest) from overruling the constitution under one pretext or another via the excuse of religion. With a majority that is close to 97% now..and of these some 60-80% are willing to blind themselves to ruthless murder by even 1%.. there will be no affect of declaring equality in any basis of law. What is needed is eradication of the disease that is parading itself in the guise of Islam in Pakistan. When I say guise of Islam.. I refer to whatever vested interests that are masked and paraded under twisted and obscure interpretations of Islamic laws and teachings today.

Its quite simple, you can declare all equal.. and all I have to say to ten people is that you are subverting Islam according to so and so scholar on 1950 who quoted so and so of 753 A.D. The result is that those ten will grow to 1000.. and they will lynch you.. while 120 million will keep quiet.. 50 million will nod their heads in part confusion and part agreement.. and the rest will not even care about it because their lives are too busy.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

are u serious ???
can provide some sort of link/confirmation/more of the story.
our bapuji was so tharkee, i didnt know.

India House London is the place to go and find out. As i have gone there and saw it. As for internet well there r a lot of things that r not shared here. This particular arrest Warrant is of 1930s.

 

[Kompromat]

Infact I disagree.
The founder of Pakistan wanted a Muslim majority state, not a theocratic state.

eventhough

I have never asked for a theocratic state, nor i want one.

Changing the name does not in any way take away from what Jinnah wanted - that Muslims of the Indian subcontinent should rule themselves.

Thats a fair assessment.

However 'how' Muslims should rule themselves is a question that has to be answered by each successive Pakistani generation on its own terms. There is a very clear distinction between the two.

That is a freedom seeded to us by our forefathers and i plan to exercise it to its best possible effect. We want a Caliph, even if he sits on a chair and does nothing and has zero powers. Just like many western nations have constitutional monarchs. Muslims for the past 100 years are frustrated at the fact that they don't have a caliph to call their own. (Having a Caliph is very important for Muslims, just like having a pope is important for Catholics and a Chief Rabbi for the Jews)

If we can create a politically powerless but culturally strong structure parallel to a rather vibrant democratic structure we already have, i think that we can satisfy the demands of our masses and it would result in a better functioning state. For this reason the Iranian model is perhaps the closest model Pakistan can look at it, there are fundamental flaws in their system like they don't have a multi party democracy. If they had a multi party democracy apparatus, the power wouldn't have seeded to the Ayatollah as his original purpose was not to have political power but it ended up happening due to a non existent multi party democracy system.

@Armstrong - I'd like your two cents on it.

 

[baajey]

India House London is the place to go and find out. As i have gone there and saw it. As for internet well there r a lot of things that r not shared here. This particular arrest Warrant is of 1930s.

lol.....thats an interesting find.....
my admiration for that man increased manifold.

 

[mehboobkz]

@IamBengali

Our land our rules.

Similar lines were said by Netherlands, France and Belgium on Burqa row...
So why there was a fuss from Islamic world?

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Why the obsession with Islam?

You obviously don't know the context of the conversion. Aeronaut claimed his people invented beer, the drink that I drink. Leave it anyway, it's getting childish now.

 

[Kompromat]

Similar lines were said by Netherlands, France and Belgium on Burqa row...
So why there was a fuss from Islamic world?

I am happy with what they are doing in their country.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

lol.....thats an interesting find.....
my admiration for that man increased manifold.

point is the history they teach u that he was jailed only because he fought british is a total lie. But in reality he is a lust full man with very low moral principles, even we know he had illicit relations with his sister in law and was a gay was well and thats why he was jailed.

 

[Kompromat]

You obviously don't know the context of the conversion. Aeronaut claimed his people invented beer, the drink that I drink. Leave it anyway, it's getting childish now.

Alcohol not beer.