Pakistan Seeks To Energize Naval Modernization

[araz]

So who's saying that Naval wing needs 100?

2 Sqaud of Su-35 are more then enough

2 squadrons of heavies would be enough for the whole country. PN will need 1 squadron along with a couple of squadrons of JFTs.for fairly comprehensive cover of its sphere of activity

 

[Asian.Century]

What Pakistan needs are more fast attack stealth missile guarded small ships, with Ballistic and Cruise Missile capable Submarines and a large number of attack fighter aircrafts like Su35 / Naval JF17s.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

The order of 8 submarines at the same time is not a smart move at all---. The procurement should have been split up.

The first target would have to go for 4 subs to start with-----. Why---here is what people need to understand----when you asking for 8 subs---you are going to get it one after the other----.

Now same with the 4 subs-----but then you should also go for another

4--6 upgraded version of F22's----

and at least 2---3 type 054 frigates in the 5000 tonnage range

and then to top it off----start up with 2 sqdrn's of upgraded JH7B's with aesa for naval strike mission.

That is how you build up a navy that is lagging behind----START DIFFERENT PROGRAMS IN PARALLEL---and suddenly at the end f 4 years---you have a force that at the power and strength of which you yourself would be shocked at.

It is utterly stupid just to go for 8 submarines at one time.

You will be left empty handed once again.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Hi,

The order of 8 submarines at the same time is not a smart move at all---. The procurement should have been split up.

The first target would have to go for 4 subs to start with-----. Why---here is what people need to understand----when you asking for 8 subs---you are going to get it one after the other----.

Now same with the 4 subs-----but then you should also go for another

4--6 upgraded version of F22's----

and at least 2---3 type 054 frigates in the 5000 tonnage range

and then to top it off----start up with 2 sqdrn's of upgraded JH7B's with aesa for naval strike mission.

That is how you build up a navy that is lagging behind----start different programs in parallel---and suddenly at the end f 4 years---you have a force that at the power and strength of which you yourself would be shocked at.

It is utterly stupid just to go for 8 submarines at one time.

You will be left empty handed once again.

14 subs was the requirement for AFMP 2019... Which has already been delayed... Also 4 will be built in Pak while 4 will be produced in China.. It wont be smart to construct 4 in china first n than in Pak... they will most probably be built
simultaneously in both countries...

Also i wonder what happened to the deal for 4 improved F22 - 23s..

 

[ziaulislam]

Hi,

The order of 8 submarines at the same time is not a smart move at all---. The procurement should have been split up.

The first target would have to go for 4 subs to start with-----. Why---here is what people need to understand----when you asking for 8 subs---you are going to get it one after the other----.

Now same with the 4 subs-----but then you should also go for another

4--6 upgraded version of F22's----

and at least 2---3 type 054 frigates in the 5000 tonnage range

and then to top it off----start up with 2 sqdrn's of upgraded JH7B's with aesa for naval strike mission.

That is how you build up a navy that is lagging behind----start different programs in parallel---and suddenly at the end f 4 years---you have a force that at the power and strength of which you yourself would be shocked at.

It is utterly stupid just to go for 8 submarines at one time.

You will be left empty handed once again.

with 8 subs to be acquired over 6-8 years our strength will jump to 11..
india on the other hand is going for 6+6+2 subs in same period..it will be hard to keep up..especially when PN is focusing on cheaper deterrence i.e subs like other smaller navies..

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

The naval wing would need at least 150 +++aircraft.

Karachi 2 sqdrn of heavies J11D / SU35's

alongwith 4 sqdrn's of JF17's

Gwadar 2 sqdrn's of deep strike JH7B's based at Dalbandin, Pasni, Jiwani, + 1 sqdrn of JF 17 and 2 sqdrn's of heavies J11D's / SU35's

Gwadar and Karachi port strikes will be a game changer for Pakistan----so Pakistan needs to have enough aircraft in the arena to defend its skies and at the same time send strike mission deep into enemy territory.

The mindset of the enemy wave coming in and defending needs to change---as enemy wave is pouncing at you and destroying your assets---you wave needs to be in the air as well targeting to destroy enemy assets as well.

14 subs was the requirement for AFMP 2019... Which has already been delayed... Also 4 will be built in Pak while 4 will be produced in China.. It wont be smart to construct 4 in china first n than in Pak... they will most probably be built
simultaneously in both countries...

Also i wonder what happened to the deal for 4 improved F22 - 23s..

Hi,

The requirement of a household of 5 for the year is six 40 KG bags of wheat---three 40 kg of rice----but do you buy it all at the same time----for vegetables----400 KG a year----fruit---400KG a year---meat 100 KG a year---lentils---200 KG a year-----for a reasonable earning family.

So---how do you spend the money to buy them---to keep your demand and supply in BALANCE?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Hi,

The naval wing would need at least 150 +++aircraft.

Karachi 2 sqdrn of heavies J11D / SU35's

alongwith 2 sqdrn's of JF17's

Gwadar 2 sqdrn's of deep strike JH7B's based at Dalbandin, Pasni, Jiwani, + 1 sqdrn of JF 17 and 2 sqdrn's of heavies J11D's / SU35's

Gwadar and Karachi port strikes will be a game changer for Pakistan----so Pakistan needs to have enough aircraft in the arena to defend its skies and at the same time send strike mission deep into enemy territory.

The mindset of the enemy wave coming in and defending needs to change---as enemy wave is pouncing at you and destroying your assets---you wave needs to be in the air as well targeting to destroy enemy assets as well.

I dont think Pak can pull that off with our weak economy.. 2 sqds of J11s/35s n 2 JF sqds would be enough (realistically speaking-- even that seems hard for now).

 

[MastanKhan]

I dont think Pak can pull that off with our weak economy.. 2 sqds of J11s/35s n 2 JF sqds would be enough (realistically speaking-- even that seems hard for now).

Hi,

Exactly for that reason---I am saying that the 8 submarine contract is bad---it should have been split up----stair step progression---every thing moves forward at the same time----all departments move forward at the same pace---that is when you don't have imbalance of growth.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Hi,

Exactly for that reason---I am saying that the 8 submarine contract is bad---it should have been split up----stair step progression---every thing moves forward at the same time----all departments move forward at the same pace---that is when you don't have imbalance of growth.

To be honest sir... im just happy... navy's getting piece of the action... it has been treated as an orphan child far too long..

 

[MastanKhan]

To be honest sir... im just happy... navy's getting piece of the action... it has been treated as an orphan child far too long..

Hi,

I hear you-----but you would have been happier---if it would have been split up.

 

[black-hawk_101]

These FACs will arrive directly from China for Gwadar.

 

[niaz]

Before we come up with suggestions of replacing frigate with PC-3’ or reducing the number of submarines; we must try to understand what the staff at the PN GHQ have in mind.

Given the limited financial resources allocated to Pak Navy and the overwhelming quantitative superiority of the Indian Navy; a good guess about the future shape pf Pakistan Navy appears to be that surface warship acquisition is geared towards defence of the littoral waters and the economic zone only.

In other words, future PN surface fleet would primarily comprise of missile equipped FAC, anti-submarine & anti-aircraft frigates and mine hunters supported by PC-3 Orion LMR platforms & a squadron of fighters armed with anti-ship missiles. Blue water offence to be carried out almost entirely by the sub-surface fleet with no warships of the destroyers or larger class.

I am only guessing and would appreciate anyone with inside info about PN modernization plans can elucidate us on this subject. Until such time we have this info; meaningful discussion, comments and /or suggestions on PN acquisitions, is not possible.

We must also remember that beggars can’t be choosers and as long as we don’t have a strong economy; our armed forces will have to make do with whatever is being hand-out to us.

 

[Mughal-Prince]

Pakistan needs to go for at least 6 Type 54 A from China and also a get 4 to 6 Milgem Corvettes from Turkey. After these we need to focus on Destroyers 8 F-22 P Frigates are not enough. We need lot more

Well that would be a huge acquisition and I think it is not impossible but I think if we go for Multi Hybrid Systems from different countries integrated in these platforms with our expertise developed in a way like TOT if not total then least partially developed while if these acquisitions taken place. But that doesn't seems likely to me because of lack of vision.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Before we come up with suggestions of replacing frigate with PC-3’ or reducing the number of submarines; we must try to understand what the staff at the PN GHQ have in mind.

Given the limited financial resources allocated to Pak Navy and the overwhelming quantitative superiority of the Indian Navy; a good guess about the future shape pf Pakistan Navy appears to be that surface warship acquisition is geared towards defence of the littoral waters and the economic zone only.

In other words, future PN surface fleet would primarily comprise of missile equipped FAC, anti-submarine & anti-aircraft frigates and mine hunters supported by PC-3 Orion LMR platforms & a squadron of fighters armed with anti-ship missiles. Blue water offence to be carried out almost entirely by the sub-surface fleet with no warships of the destroyers or larger class.

I am only guessing and would appreciate anyone with inside info about PN modernization plans can elucidate us on this subject. Until such time we have this info; meaningful discussion, comments and /or suggestions on PN acquisitions, is not possible.

We must also remember that beggars can’t be choosers and as long as we don’t have a strong economy; our armed forces will have to make do with whatever is being hand-out to us.

I fully endorse your views. I have in the past also stressed the fact that a min of 12 boat undersea fleet is needed to keep major assets of IN away from our shores. In essence our submarine force will have to act as the offensive punch armed with long range submarine launched ship killers and sea leg of our Nuclear Triad.

Our ship-borne and land based AAA assets need to be beefed up. We are lacking in Area Defense SAM capability, both on-board our naval ships and inshore.

Creating atleast four major Naval/Commercial hubs, Port Qasim, KPT, Gawader, and Ormara and I suspect another one in and around Jiwani, or Kalmat -- would require major effort to establish credible AAA defense and shore based AsHM batteries.

Btw Ormara at one point had submarine pens as part of its design!!!

 

[iby32]

Ideally navy should be like follow if funds are available
DDG 04
FFG 12
CORVETS 8
SUBS 10
NUCLEAR SUBS 2
2 SQUADRONS OF FIGHTER JETS
30-40 HELICOPTERS
6-8 MINE HUNTERS
4-6 OIL TANKERS
30-50 FAC/MISSILEBOATS
Remember always better offence is always better defence