Pakistan’s ISI from the inside

[AAtish]

No, I was just trying to figure out what level of Jihad would be required to meet the standards of the PA motto. Can you please help me with that?

Putting your life on line for the protection of your motherland, or rather any duty where you put your life on line is the highest level of Jihad.. As i said before, if you are Muslim and you fulfill your duties with honesty and lose your life in that.. you are shaheed.. there is no question about it.. it is clearly stated

so yes, PA personnel are fighting the highest level of Jihad right now.. even against Taliban.. they are trying to protect their country from inside and outside..

 

[VCheng]

Just as an aside for comparison, there is no official motto of the USAF or the USN, and the Marines have "Semper Fidelis" (Always Faithful - to USA).

The motto of the US Army? "This We'll Defend". That is it.

Edit:

Oh, and for the CIA: "Ye shall know the truth and it shall set you free."

 

[Porus]

Nope!.. Qur'an, Qawi Ahadees and Sunnah...

Remember last speech of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) and the verse which came..

Al yaoma akmalto lakum deenokum wa atmamto alaikum naimati wa razeeto lakum...

So no one decides other than Muslims, You are a Muslim (if you are) then read Qur'an, study Ahadees, and then compare if what Taliban are doing is according to Islam.. if it is not, then their concept is wrong.. as simple as that..

Thats the beauty of Islam, you are TOLD to seek knowledge, both Islamic as well as Worldly..

It might amaze you that all the recent developments are done on the basis of researches done by Muslim scholars

After reading Quran and Ahadess different people come to different conclusion and this is the main reason why we have so many different sects within Islam. The things are not that easy as you are trying to present them here. Many Pakistani soldiers denied to fight the Talibans because they considered them to be good or even better Muslims.

 

[AAtish]

For the clarification of my friends, let me say that i am not a Molvi or muttaqi or Parhaizgaar.. i don't have beard or anything.. but i do tend to study to clarify my concepts.. everything i read, i judge it on the basis of my logic.. Islam is "deen-e-fitrat".. so anything that does not falls rightly according to your logic should be questioned and researched..

 

[AAtish]

Just as an aside for comparison, there is no official motto of the USAF or the USN, and the Marines have "Semper Fidelis" (Always Faithful - to USA).

The motto of the US Army? "This We'll Defend". That is it.

Edit:

Oh, and for the CIA: "Ye shall know the truth and it shall set you free."

And your point is?

 

[VCheng]

And your point is?

I was providing as ASIDE for a COMPARISON, like I said before.

 

[AAtish]

After reading Quran and Ahadess different people come to different conclusion and this is the main reason why we have so many different sects within Islam. The things are not that easy as you are trying to present them here. Many Pakistani soldiers denied to fight the Talibans because they considered them to be good or even better Muslims.

Bro.. people who study Qur'an (and translation, if Arabic is not your language) and study Ahadees and follow sunnah, they do not distribute themselves in sects.. people who follow Imams fall in sects

The main point is.. you don't need any Imam or anyone to tell you what to do if you yourself study Qur'an (understand it) and Ahadees.. Follow Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) not the imams.. as simple as that

 

[AAtish]

I was providing as ASIDE for a COMPARISON, like I said before.

Oh okay.. everyone to its own self.. what works for them might not work for us.. and what works for us might not work for them..

Btw, they couldn't conquer Vietnam even though they were 100 times stronger (i am referring to Vietnam and not Iraq because there they had to "land" to fight) .. and Pakistan Army managed to fight 3 times bigger Army and survived .. difference?

 

[Porus]

Bro.. people who study Qur'an (and translation, if Arabic is not your language) and study Ahadees and follow sunnah, they do not distribute themselves in sects.. people who follow Imams fall in sects

The main point is.. you don't need any Imam or anyone to tell you what to do if you yourself study Qur'an (understand it) and Ahadees.. Follow Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) not the imams.. as simple as that

This is the main problem because that is not as simple as you think it is. Anyway, thanks for this little discussion.

 

[VCheng]

Oh okay.. everyone to its own self.. what works for them might not work for us.. and what works for us might not work for them..

Btw, they couldn't conquer Vietnam even though they were 100 times stronger (i am referring to Vietnam and not Iraq because there they had to "land" to fight) .. and Pakistan Army managed to fight 3 times bigger Army and survived .. difference?

.... and yet, the nation that the US Army protects is sleeping very well and enjoying life in a productive way, by and large.

Can you say the same for the nation that the Pakistan Army is protecting?

Results speak the loudest, don't they?

 

[AAtish]

.... and yet, the nation that the US Army protects is sleeping very well and enjoying life in a productive way, by and large.

Can you say the same for the nation that the Pakistan Army is protecting?

Results speak the loudest, don't they?

US's Political Leaders work day in day out for their betterment.. Can you say that for Pakistani Government?

As far as securing borders is concerned, these are acts of terrorism which we are facing not a full fledged war.. and Still Army is trying to protect the Pakistani citizen by putting their lives on line.. I guess those who are still alive should thank those brave souls who died for their sacrifices.. otherwise, one side US and other side Taliban, don't forget the third side.. (looking towards East)..

I accept that Army should be monitored, but i would rather have Pakistan Army not go in the hands of this Government or any such Government.. When the time is right, Army will automatically stay in their barracks.. who wants to work when nothing's wrong?

 

[VCheng]

US's Political Leaders work day in day out for their betterment.. Can you say that for Pakistani Government?

So your contention is that the present problems in Pakistan are ALL the fault of the political leaders and that the Army had nothing to do with the evolution of those issues?

I accept that Army should be monitored, but i would rather have Pakistan Army not go in the hands of this Government or any such Government.. When the time is right, Army will automatically stay in their barracks.. who wants to work when nothing's wrong?

So your contention is that the Army should never be subservient to the civilian government since it is perfect?

I think I am done with this discussion. Thank you for the entertainment.

 

[AAtish]

So your contention is that the present problems in Pakistan are ALL the fault of the political leaders and that the Army had nothing to do with the evolution of those issues?



So your contention is that the Army should never be subservient to the civilian government since it is perfect?

I think I am done with this discussion. Thank you for the entertainment.

LOL.. you needed an escape route.. so you made one by twisting logic of the post ..

I have not said anything of such kind .. i said i would rather not have army in the hands of these politicians or any of such people.. If the Political Government is as good as US government, Army would automatically go back in barracks

Anyways, nice talking to you .. but you still couldn't tell me what is wrong with Iman, Taqwah and Jihad fi sabeelillah..

 

[VCheng]

Doesn't really matter who you blame for causing the rot, the fact of the matter is that the 'rot' is now societal - religious extremism mingling with, and in some cases enforcing or being enforced by, backward cultural norms.

.........................

Okay, I have a serious question:

Given the admission that the whole of society is so rotten that it does not matter anymore who is to blame, then please tell me the basis for stating that this situation will get better, because I surely cannot see how a solution is possible, unless some really drastic happens, internally or externally?.

 

[AAtish]

Okay, I have a serious question:

Given the admission that the whole of society is so rotten that it does not matter anymore who is to blame, then please tell me the basis for stating that this situation will get better, because I surely cannot see how a solution is possible, unless some really drastic happens, internally or externally?.

The important question is not who is to blame.. the important question is.. what can be done..

What we can do right now is to force a change.. and i'm not talking about raising arms.. i'm talking about political change.. elections are coming near.. i'm doing my bit to educate people, the ones i know, so should you and all the rest of literate Pakistanis.. After all, it OUR country.. lets bring the change together.. lets raise awareness.. we all have logic.. we all have reasons to make this change happen.. if we give up, this change will never come.. If we started rolling the wheel, more hands will join.. i'm doing my bit.. you do yours honestly.. Jihad against corruption.. Jihad against low literacy rate.. and we don't need to kill or get killed .. we just need to make people understand that bradryism or selling votes might give them happiness for a few days but then they have to live with sorrows for next 4-5 years..

Just my two cents..