desiman
SENIOR MEMBER
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I suppose it is a waste of time if you prefer to indulge in delusional proclamations that are self-assuring, but not in line with reality. You are welcome to that sort of content.
As far as the reputation of Pakistani diplomats goes, not only do you have one of your own diplomats disagreeing with you - and I will take his word over yours, unless you turn out to be the Indian Ambassador to China, or something like that - you are even otherwise quite ill informed. You can begin your education on this topic here:
Associated Press Of Pakistan ( Pakistan's Premier NEWS Agency ) - Ex-US envoy praises Pakistans Munir Akram in his book
No, and no.
Being able to keep good relations with Iran, China and the US all at the same time is quite unprecedented. India had to sell itself short when it was forced to oppose Iran in return for the US pat on the back that allowed the NSG waiver to come through. There was much hollering and hooting within and without the Indian media on that. Short-term memory on this topic too?
The nuclear deal with China is all-encompassing. The military angle was already there and is sufficient to allow many analysts to speculate that the size of the Pakistani arsenal is larger than India's. The civilian aspect is exceptional, because it comes not only with reactors and transfer of technology, but also with funding.
Sour grapes.
No approval needed. The NSG cannot block this deal.
In the war on terror, if one listens to Indians talk on the subject, they appear perturbed that the US continues to side with Pakistan and continues to provide free economic and military assistance. They also despair that Pakistan has been designated a major non-NATO ally and far from being pushed away, has been embraced in the attempt to find a final solution in Afghanistan. Hillary keeps visiting Islamabad, not because we are isolated, my dear fellow. You have a strange and rather twisted take on reality.
AQ Khan: ah, yes. The great story of proliferation and Pakistani governmental involvement in providing nuclear weapons to rogue states. Wonderful spy novel stuff, but how did this affect Pakistan? Which nuclear deal with Pakistan got cancelled because of this? Which sanctions were imposed on Pakistan because of this? Which assistance program was cancelled because of this? KL got passed after this event. The China nuclear deal happened after this event. An increased engagement with the US happened after this event. The IP (C) pipeline was finalized after this event. If India was trying to exploit this event against Pakistan, then it failed miserably.
On the Kargil incident, once again, we would not have reopened the Kashmir issue and gotten as close to a settlement as we did during the Musharraf/Vajpayee era, were it not for Kargil. By the way, did you know that Pakistan continues to hold several features which were taken over during this time? Once more, Kargil internationalized Kashmir. This is not in India's interest, and it is absolutely in Pakistan's interest. The more Kashmir is in the limelight the less credible India's claim about it being a part of India. The more maps gets printed with a dotted boundary and "DISPUTED TERRITORY" written on top of Kashmir, the more India's position is compromised. So I don't know what the heck you are going on about.
1971. Wasn't Bangladesh supposed to be an Indian ally? Didn't India fight the "war of liberation" for Bangladesh? Is Bangladesh an Indian ally today? Is it an enemy of Pakistan? What went wrong there, my friend. Who killed Mujib, Indira's ally? Why did they kill him? Shall we ask our Bangladeshi friends on this board, such as Al-Zakir, to come and share his opinion of what they think of India? Doesn't sound like a diplomatic success to me.
UN resolutions stand on this subject, against India's wishes.
The OIC regularly bashes India on this topic too. You may not want to pay attention - and that's fine - but diplomacy is measured by how well you were able to get other people to come to see your point of view.
Has India been able to get the world to censure Pakistan on the AQ Khan issue? No. Was India able to get the kind of reaction it wanted against Pakistan on the Mumbai issue? No. Was India able to prevent muslim countries from regularly slapping it on the Kashmir issue? No. Was India able to out-do Pakistan with the recent overtures to Turkey? No. Was India able to sell its "Pakistan vs. Iran" story on the Afghan subject to Iran and cause an alienation resulting in a sabotaged pipeline? No. Was India able to win out on the Afghan front and sideline Pakistan there despite its aid and embrace of the Northern Alliance warlords? No. Was India able to prevent Russia from supplying RD-93 engines for the JF-17? No. Was India able to prevent the Ukraine - a former soviet state - from refusing to supply MBTs to the Pakistan Army? No.
I tire listing out instances...
Who is thumping their chest? This article is written by an Indian diplomat, no? Will you pronounce him a traitor because you are frustrated that he doesn't reinforce your delusional notions?
Now, what were you saying about chest thumping???
Once again, the guy writing the article is an Indian diplomat. I guess if it is just another article to somehow compare India and Pakistan then people manning the Indian diplomatic corps must be pretty obsessed with Pakistan!
Argue with your own diplomat all you want, even though it doesn't appear your are qualified to. [Caveat Emptor: that you don't turn out to be the Indian ambassador to China!]
1) To start of this useless comparison, lets go back a bit into history shall we because you seem to be too delusional in your present knowledge. Pakistans diplomacy has historically always let Pakistan down. After the soviet afghan war, which was another failure in itself contributing heavily to the current state of Pakistan, The diplomats where not able to take any advantage of the situation at hand. Pakistan on the contrary was put under many sanctions and its diplomats were unable to work anything out for Pakistan. The current state of the Air force and the Navy outline how miserably they have failed to get anything done for their armed forces. Getting equipment from China isnt a big achievement by any standards as first of all their equipment is no where comparable to western counterparts and Chinas interest in Pakistan is out of a need to counter India than being out of pure friendship. In the world if international relations, true friend dont exist. On the other hand Indian diplomats have worked hard to ensure that India is put back up on the world stage after Pokran and that Indias interest are safeguarded. Its only been 10 odd years since Pokran and India has already managed to get itself back onto the world stage where the world is open to us. Unlike Pakistan, we dont have to rely even on the US for any defense related equipment or the nuclear deal as India can negotiate that with any nation it want. India will be singing a historic deal with Canada this weekend to illustrate that fact. All in all in terms of nuclear and defense related diplomacy Pakistani diplomats have failed.
2) The Kashmir issue Big big big failure is the only thing that comes into mind. Pakistan is bleeding after fighting with India for over 60 years on this issue and the max they have got are empty reassurances from assorted nations. Pakistans so called CLOSEST ALLYS the US and China have shrugged of its request to intervene in this issue. The UN never releases any comments on this issue and has infact banned Pakistani organization in return under pressure from India. The Kargil debacle is huge mark on the reputation of Pakistani diplomats and Pakistan itself. Yes you internationalized the issue but you also proved that Pakistan supports terrorist outfits and that Pakistan derailed the peace process that was initiated by the BJP before Kargil. Pakistans back stab proved to not only embarrass itself in front of the world but also internally destabilized it where Musharaff took power right after. Even Benazir and Shairf have accepted that Kargil was the biggest mistake that Pakistan made and if you cant accept that then you living in a dream world. Here read this
Benazir Bhutto, an opposition leader and former prime minister, called the Kargil War "Pakistan's greatest blunder". Many ex-officials of the military and the Inter-Services Intelligence (Pakistan's principal intelligence agency) also believed that "Kargil was a waste of time" and "could not have resulted in any advantage" on the larger issue of Kashmir. A retired Pakistani Army General, Lt Gen Ali Kuli Khan, lambasted the war as "a disaster bigger than the East Pakistan tragedy",adding that the plan was "flawed in terms of its conception, tactical planning and execution" that ended in "sacrificing so many soldiers." The Pakistani media criticized the whole plan and the eventual climbdown from the Kargil heights since there were no gains to show for the loss of lives and it only resulted in international condemnation.
In terms of a huge diplomatic failure read this
Though the Kargil conflict had brought the Kashmir dispute into international focus which was one of the aims of Pakistan it had done so in negative circumstances that eroded its credibility, since the infiltration came just after a peace process between the two countries was underway. The sanctity of the LOC too received international recognition. President Clinton's move to ask Islamabad to withdraw hundreds of armed militants from Indian-administered Kashmir was viewed by many in Pakistan as indicative of a clear shift in US policy against Pakistan
Again Pakistani diplomacy failed where Indian diplomats ran over Pakistan.
3) You want me to take AL Zakirs word on 1971, you must be joking right lol. 1971 just like Kargil it is a major embarrassment for Pakistan where it was not able to contain anything. News of the genocide in Bangladesh spread like wild fire and any attempts by Pakistani diplomats to stop India by putting pressure via the US was also a failure. 1971 is an open book and an evident failure for Pakistan from every side, so stop living in your dream world there.
4) RD-93 are substandard and under power engines that even the JF-17 is trying to get rid off. Sorry to say we are more than happy that the JF-17 is coming with them. You win this one lol Now please tell me any new generation equipment that Pakistan has managed to get, let me see NOTHING. Even the F-16s you are getting are not the latest and lets not even go onto the navy and army. Again big failure for Pakistani diplomacy, cant even negotiate a modern arms deals.
5) Pakistan can almost forget about getting an MSG approval. The NSG and related organizations are still investigating the AQ Khan case and how Pakistan has managed to get nuclear equipment to rouge nations like North Korea and Libya. As the son of the former dictator of Libya said we were only 2 years away from the nuclear bomb thanks to A Q Khan network. A recent documentary released by the Canadian media has stated that the A Q Khan network is still running through proxies and keeping all that in mind Pakistan can forget about even asking the NSG lol. Wake up and smell the coffee, the reality is very different.
We will talk again about the effectiveness of your diplomats when you get an actual nuclear deal, when you manage to procure the latest tech ( not get it in donations), when you are able to negotiate a economic package with the WB on your terms, when you internationalize the Kashmir issue in a good light etc etc. until then sorry to say but failure is the only word when Pakistani diplomats come to my mind.
