Pakistan rejects Panetta's comments on militant safe havens

[Irfan Baloch]

Right! So here you go, I will prove how immature your argument is and how wrong you are about Indians..

[These are just from one thread our good moderator, please read more threads from your own forums, will help you..

I have posted some links to debunk what our good moderator has suggested, would like you to go through, its only one thread..

thanks for responding to my question. although not the exact one which was regarding the deliberate killing of Afghan civilians, what you pointed out was the drone war but I accept that and by the way Joe Shearer is one of the most celebrated and respected members of the forum who commands the respect and admiration beyond the boundaries of his country.

re innocent victims of WoT (be it from drones, black-ops, killing for fun or outright hatred for Afghans) we must condemn such acts without any conditions and qualifications. the political scoring against Pakistan & its policies must not mix with comments describing human tragedies.

your answer is good enough by the way, it took a while but among others you made an effort so well done.
I was not putting up a challenge but it was a request. because time and again all I see is justification after justification for American actions when the victims happen to be Pakistanis. and when its the Afghan victims , the debate from Indians turns to what Pakistan is doing re Afghan fighters like Haqqanis, Hikmat Yar and Mullah Omar etc not what some Americans just managed to do yet again.

 

[karan.1970]

You just have to demonstrate your intelligence time and time again, don't you?

Personal attacks.. last resort.. incompetent.. etc etc..

 

[SamantK]

thanks for responding to my question. although not the exact one which was regarding the deliberate killing of Afghan civilians, what you pointed out was the drone war but I accept that and by the way Joe Shearer is one of the most celebrated and respected members of the forum who commands the respect and admiration beyond the boundaries of his country.

yes and i have deep respect for him also maybe I was not vivid enough to condemn such killings where innocents are murdered needlessly. I was showing you that Indians are not as sick in mind as you pointed out to be.

re innocent victims of WoT (be it from drones, black-ops, killing for fun or outright hatred for Afghans) we must condemn such acts without any conditions and qualifications. the political scoring against Pakistan & its policies must not mix with comments describing human tragedies

True enough but then again doesn't these policies lead to such situations? If we cannot learn from the fact that misguided policies, which have backfired so badly, leads to civilians getting killed for something which they have no connection to then this circle of innocents getting killed will never stop.

Your answer is good enough by the way, it took a while but among others you made an effort so well done.
I was not putting up a challenge but it was a request. because time and again all I see is justification after justification for American actions when the victims happen to be Pakistanis. and when its the Afghan victims , the debate from Indians turns to what Pakistan is doing re Afghan fighters like Haqqanis, Hikmat Yar and Mullah Omar etc not what some Americans just managed to do yet again.

It certainly looked like a challenge when you took personal shots at me and my fellow Indians, justifications were given by me to make people realise that the policy adopted could have avoided the situation all together. Its not an easy thing to control such excessive power which rests with US, those who can handle are few and then again we should frame our policies so that we don't give a chance till we are not in a position to oppose a move by that power.

One of my favorite quotes incidentally from a movie is that "with great power comes great responsibility" and not many can take up the responsibility, if you understand what I mean.

 

[Areesh]

Oh im scared now! A person lecturing me who stoops so low to disrespects someones parents.. yeah blow away!

He deserved that. Stop feeling sorry for him or I might have to question what relation he has with you.

So if US does something it makes you doing it right regardless of whether it is correct or not? Sounds like hypocrisy at its most unadulterated form.

First admit that US did was wrong and then debate Aemricans about it and then come back and say the some stuff to me. We will see whether it is hypocrisy or not.

I called maverick what I called him because he boasted about the terrorist attack on our parliament, whoever supports such line will get the same treatment, even if it be the moderator.

He didn't boast about a terrorist attack. He gave you a reality check. You misunderstood his post. Now try to understand his post and accept the reality check.

Ok, militants attacking America is understandable from your PoV but why India? Just because your leaders were not competent enough to get Kashmir on their side?

Again you misunderstood his post. Try again buddy and try to understand what he said.

Yes im a proud citizen of a country which does not allow anyone to come barging and kill my country's citizens openly without even a single morsel of remorse. Also, if you do not want Indians to comment on a thread on a Internet forum I guess the owners will be well in their rights to block Indians from this site, till that happens I suggest you STFU.

Can comment on the start of this para but again you will say you guys are boasting about terrorist attack. Anyways you misunderstood his post. There is a reason why I said Indians should be the last person bragging about drone attacks and you failed to understand why I said that.

you need to do better next time.

from their pov they stopped some more incidents from happening, better late than sorry is something they seems to follow rigorously.

Again the damage had been done till then. No wonder if America is losing war against a few ragtag Pushtoon tribal. They were already late. Too late in fact.

 

[SamantK]

He deserved that. Stop feeling sorry for him or I might have to question what relation he has with you.

He is a human being and when did you start deciding who deserves it and who does not? I would equally consider an Indian as an Invalid when he goes so low to disrespect anyone's parents, be it Pakistanis too. We are humans and such things should be beneath us.. Go do what you want, I don't give a Sh!t what you think.

Added later: Isnt this what the Americans give as the Justification for the killings "They deserved it"?

First admit that US did was wrong and then debate Aemricans about it and then come back and say the some stuff to me. We will see whether it is hypocrisy or not.

First thing its not me who has to admit the wrong doing, it is US which has to. In my opinion they have been wrong many times including the whole Afghanistan affair.. Now tell me what you are gonna say..

He didn't boast about a terrorist attack. He gave you a reality check. You misunderstood his post. Now try to understand his post and accept the reality check.

He certainly did.

Again you misunderstood his post. Try again buddy and try to understand what he said.

Im sorry for the confusion, it was directed towards you when you said and i quote

Drone attacks aren't helping America's cause either and in longer perspective it is going to create more militants fighting America.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...nts-militant-safe-havens-5.html#ixzz1xKUx6lfL

I thought it was clear enough..

Can comment on the start of this para but again you will say you guys are boasting about terrorist attack. Anyways you misunderstood his post. There is a reason why I said Indians should be the last person bragging about drone attacks and you failed to understand why I said that.

Please do but keep in mind that bullshit will be treated as such. I admit that I failed to understand why you said that, please explain..

you need to do better next time.

I am learning each day, I accept that i cannot be correct all the time (read human Being)!

Again the damage had been done till then. No wonder if America is losing war against a few ragtag Pushtoon tribal. They were already late. Too late in fact.

yes they were but the internal state of Pakistan also has not helped either.

 

[Areesh]

He is a human being and when did you start deciding who deserves it and who does not? I would equally consider an Indian as an Invalid when he goes so low to disrespect anyone's parents, be it Pakistanis too. We are humans and such things should be beneath us.. Go do what you want, I don't give a Sh!t what you think.

Added later: Isnt this what the Americans give as the Justification for the killings "They deserved it"?

He was trolling when I first quoted him. Anyways not going to talk much about someone who has been kicked out of this forum.

First thing its not me who has to admit the wrong doing, it is US which has to. In my opinion they have been wrong many times including the whole Afghanistan affair.. Now tell me what you are gonna say..

It just proves that Taliban aren't terrorists. If dialogue between Uncle Sam and Taliban would have been successful then they would have been universally accepted as a legitimate political group inside Afghanistan. Your ranting on an online forum about Taliban being terrorist wouldn't have changed anything.

He certainly did.

It's what you think.

I admit that I failed to understand why you said that, please explain..

It's simple. Pakistan is tackling a super power here. Despite American drone attacks which didn't even help America either in it's war against Taliban Pakistan has successfully sticked with it's idea for post 2014 Afghanistan. You can call Taliban terrorists and what not but at the end of the day they are a group who have a lot of influence inside Afghanistan. They are the ones who despite a war of more than 10 years of war are still present in Afghanistan with all their influence. We think they are our key for a Pakistan friendly Afghanistan. As I said we don't have a very friendly past with Afghanistan and it's rulers. So we are working for that part and sustaining America's drone attacks for that. On the other hand you Indians have failed to force Pakistan take action against JUD or Hafiz Saeed depite we are a much smaller country compared to yours. So that's why at least you guys shouldn't keep bragging about drone attacks when you couldn't force a much smaller country in your neighborhood yourself. We want a Pakistan friendly Afghanistan and if it goes through Taliban then be it.

yes they were but the internal state of Pakistan also has not helped either.

Whatever. America is bombing the so called terrorist sanctuaries inside Pakistan and that isn't helping either.

 

[Mav3rick]

I called maverick what I called him because he boasted about the terrorist attack on our parliament, whoever supports such line will get the same treatment, even if it be the moderator.

I did not read your reply because it was deleted by a mod before I got the chance to read it, however my post was in plain English and not very hard to understand. I did not 'boast' about any terrorist attack, matter of fact the single quote for the word attacked was there to treat the Indian statements as lies because we do not believe Pakistan was involved in any attack on your Parliament. Your Government was lying to you, it was most likely your own false flag operation. But my point was that even then your much larger and supposedly advanced military dare not cross the border.......so preach what you practice and not what you cannot even dream of.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

lets see if we can somehow conclude this debate without involving each other linking and disliking.
rest assured this subject will be resurrected when some other website recycles the same subject matter with some tacky phrases and one of us creates the thread.

dont we just love it?

 

[SamantK]

He was trolling when I first quoted him. Anyways not going to talk much about someone who has been kicked out of this forum.

Still you did not talk about the way America justifies and the way you do, aint it something to be though of?

It just proves that Taliban aren't terrorists. If dialogue between Uncle Sam and Taliban would have been successful then they would have been universally accepted as a legitimate political group inside Afghanistan. Your ranting on an online forum about Taliban being terrorist wouldn't have changed anything.

Yes it would not have changed anything, then why do you cry over the dead civilians and the attacks which are termed terrorists? Dont the Afghan aboriginals feel the same way when they were and are killed by Taliban?

US created Taliban with the help of Pakistan and both should be blamed for it, does not make it right. How convenient when at one instant you blame the US and then in their garb of negotiations accept it with joy!

It's simple. Pakistan is tackling a super power here. Despite American drone attacks which didn't even help America either in it's war against Taliban Pakistan has successfully sticked with it's idea for post 2014 Afghanistan. You can call Taliban terrorists and what not but at the end of the day they are a group who have a lot of influence inside Afghanistan. They are the ones who despite a war of more than 10 years of war are still present in Afghanistan with all their influence. We think they are our key for a Pakistan friendly Afghanistan. As I said we don't have a very friendly past with Afghanistan and it's rulers. So we are working for that part and sustaining America's drone attacks for that. On the other hand you Indians have failed to force Pakistan take action against JUD or Hafiz Saeed depite we are a much smaller country compared to yours. So that's why at least you guys shouldn't keep bragging about drone attacks when you couldn't force a much smaller country in your neighborhood yourself. We want a Pakistan friendly Afghanistan and if it goes through Taliban then be it.

The same power which is subjugating your citizens to death and suffering has always come in between and represented your lot, otherwise there would have been a war for the blatant attacks, it is proved in our court of law that the Pakistani establishment was indeed involved in the 26/11 attacks, so did we attack you? We tried the diplomatic pressure and is it working? Seeing Pakistan being more and more recognized as the exporter of terrorism hence not difficult to see that without the loss of our citizen's lives we have achieved a lot . I would call it a smart move, which you guys in your jingoistic attitude see as a cowardly move.

Also, with you unclear nuclear arms use policy, your leadership can be as fickle as a child having a gun in his or your hand which is ready to support Taliban for having a friendly relations with a country. No sane leader will take the risk of a nuclear war with an unstable state.

Whatever. America is bombing the so called terrorist sanctuaries inside Pakistan and that isn't helping either.

yes then whatever! You are content with a country coming 'inside' your borders and killing civilians and you are comparing the situation of a all out war with India, mate if there was an American F-16 bombing instead of a drone, would you not call it a war 'on' Pakistan? The terminology and technology is used to fool the citizens of Pakistan, which the Pakistani establishment laps up willingly. So much for your leadership..

 

[Hyperion]

lets see if we can somehow conclude this debate without involving each other linking and disliking.
dont we just love it?

We certainly do!

 

[SamantK]

I did not read your reply because it was deleted by a mod before I got the chance to read it, however my post was in plain English and not very hard to understand. I did not 'boast' about any terrorist attack, matter of fact the single quote for the word attacked was there to treat the Indian statements as lies because we do not believe Pakistan was involved in any attack on your Parliament. Your Government was lying to you, it was most likely your own false flag operation. But my point was that even then your much larger and supposedly advanced military dare not cross the border.......so preach what you practice and not what you cannot even dream of.

Obviously you do not believe that, you are a Pakistani citizen who is proud of his/her country and thinks it is beneath him/her that the state would do such a thing. However, it is a known secret that Pakistan has funded many attacks on Indian soil. We are confident of our military which has proved its worth in all the wars we have fought. The decision not to attack was not the army's my dear it was a political decision. We do not have a system where a attack on a country is planned without even the civil establishment knowing about it.

About the reasons, they have been discussed to death on this forum, please be more generous and read the forums and come back.. im not going to repeat each and everything thing to you.. you can read, write and understand English as you stated so you can search too.. Thank you!

My apologies for presuming that you were a supporter of terrorism, I take back my insult.

 

[KRAIT]

For god's sake atleast believe your All weather friend....CHINA....they have said that the terrorists have training from pakistan based terror group.

I already posted the link.

Don't tell me you don't believe China.......

 

[pakdefender]

Obviously you do not believe that, you are a Pakistani citizen who is proud of his/her country and thinks it is beneath him/her that the state would do such a thing. However, it is a known secret that Pakistan has funded many attacks on Indian soil. We are confident of our military which has proved its worth in all the wars we have fought. The decision not to attack was not the army's my dear it was a political decision. We do not have a system where a attack on a country is planned without even the civil establishment knowing about it.

About the reasons, they have been discussed to death on this forum, please be more generous and read the forums and come back.. im not going to repeat each and everything thing to you.. you can read, write and understand English as you stated so you can search too.. Thank you!

My apologies for presuming that you were a supporter of terrorism, I take back my insult.

it was the decision of the indian army since it knows its capability while vegepai was just trying to act tough , the prolonged deployment saw many indian officer get shot by their own sepoys , relations between other ranks and the officers in the indian army are not the best

 

[SamantK]

it was the decision of the indian army since it knows its capability while vegepai was just trying to act tough , the prolonged deployment saw many indian officer get shot by their own sepoys , relations between other ranks and the officers in the indian army are not the best

Ok, since you know better... have a good sleep!

 

[PakiRambo]

lets see if we can somehow conclude this debate without involving each other linking and disliking.
rest assured this subject will be resurrected when some other website recycles the same subject matter with some tacky phrases and one of us creates the thread.

dont we just love it?

defence.pk, a place where the person with most likes & personal insults, is declared the winner in an argument