Pakistan Rejects Indian Request to Open Air Space

[Kaniska]

What alternative arrangements can Indian airlines make? You do know the airline industry works on tight margins. Furthermore, you can't maneuver to an optimal position if the current state of the industry is facing a financial crisis.

These loss that are reported are speculative in nature..if people are forced to pay, they will pay it

 

[Rusty]

Of course...You are right...You do not have anything to loose here...
But the reason i would like Pakistan to extend the ban is due to multiple reason.

1- If India would like to continue its policy for Pakistan then we should eliminate all the dependency on Pakistan...Airspace access is a crucial advantage that Pakistan has over India..If Pakistan extends the ban for next 2-3 year, then Indian airlines will be forced to make alternative arrangement...In that scenario, in future conflict, we will not be surprised..



Valid point...I hope Pakistan continue its ban for ever..

What you seem to be forgetting is that we can open our air space to non Indian airlines, who can then out compete Indian airlines by offering lower prices.

You guys really do live in LaLaLand. The only way this ends well for India is if she begs Pakistan to open her airspace... which she is doing now

 

[AUz]

Of course...You are right...You do not have anything to loose here...
But the reason i would like Pakistan to extend the ban is due to multiple reason.

1- If India would like to continue its policy for Pakistan then we should eliminate all the dependency on Pakistan...Airspace access is a crucial advantage that Pakistan has over India..If Pakistan extends the ban for next 2-3 year, then Indian airlines will be forced to make alternative arrangement...

I don't think ban will go on for this long. india always surrenders infront of us rather quickly in times of high tension (recent beat down handed to india by Pakistan military is an example, unilateral withdrawal in 2001-02 after losing 2000 soldiers due to our artillery barrages is another example)..

So even here, though indian military is very likely itching for revenge and want to do something to save their lost face, they know Pakistan is too powerful and sophisticated for that. Any further attempt to use direct military action will bring about even more punishment from our air power and military prowess. Pakistan will always dominate the escalation ladder unless india wants to go to war? I am sure hindus are humiliated but not totally suicidal at this point. So that won't happen.

In that scenario, in future conflict, we will not be surprised..

And this is where you are wrong

When india was building up its military muscle throughout 2000's and 2010's with Su-30MKIs, Miraages, Israeli avionics, latest missiles, and god knows what----indians (even indian military professionals/ex-military) always talked about how Pakistan is "scared" of india, and that india should punish Pakistan for terrorism blah blah.

While we, the sane Pakistanis, always tried to instill some common sense in gullible indians and told you had we been actually "scared"---We would have changed our policy decades ago. india can't inflict any military cost on Pakistan without sustaining disproportionately high damage itself. indians (hindus) don't have any military heritage or culture----since they have always been conquered and dominated by smaller forces of superior Islamic Civilization (and later European). So lacking any military DNA, indians (mostly hindus) couldn't see through the obvious...

And then 27th Feb military confrontation happened, and rest is history

india got utterly humiliated by smaller but superior Muslim forces yet again. Totally missed the intended target (as confirmed by *ALL* international, neutral, military sources)....and PAF retaliated by launching six air strikes inside india in response to one failed strike inside Pak, shooting down indian jets, capturing wing commander alive and parading it on live TV for the world to see, and indians ended up shooting down their own helicopter and killing 7 military personnel of their own in total panic

Now....you so credulously think Pakistan won't be able to 'surprise' you in next round of confrontation. Pray to god for your own national dignity's sake (whatever is left of it) that you don't have to find out anytime soon

 

[Rasengan]

These loss that are reported are speculative in nature..if people are forced to pay, they will pay it

That doesn't work in the real world. People will always look for an alternative rather than paying for something expensive. This is called common sense. In this case, the airline industry would be affected. But you didn't explain what the alternative arrangements are? There is no alternative and the loser in this exchange is India.

Aladin's Magic Carpet, perhaps?

The Indian airline industry should invest money on a simulator. They won't be able to afford flying people on a real plane, instead, they can give them a virtual experience Of course drinks, and food will be involved in order to give the customer an authentic experience.

 

[ARMalik]

Indian airlines definitely have alternative arrangements to bypass Pakistan airspace. They have Spaceships which they will use to fly passengers in space and bypass Pakistan airspace completely. This was the Indian plan all along - rest of the world is just very backward.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Cut your nose to spite the face! Lol

Keep it up Pakistan!

Which part of the story you did not understand? Indian establishment "requested", Pakistan "declined".

 

[Vortex]

What alternative arrangements can Indian airlines make? You do know the airline industry works on tight margins. Furthermore, you can't maneuver to an optimal position if the current state of the industry is facing a financial crisis.

Taking their planes on trucks then on boat to Dubai and co then take-off.

News tejas in making ?

 

[k s ahmed]

At what cost??
https://www.businesstoday.in/curren...trike-cost-islamabad-rs-688/story/360924.html

The Pakistan airspace that was closed following the tensions between India and its neighbour after the Pulwama suicide bombing led to heavy losses. The closure of the airspace affected nearly 400 flights a day and resulted in nearly a loss of $100 million (Rs 688 crore) for Islamabad. An extensive study of operations by Pakistani and foreign carriers between February and late June showed that approximately 400 flights a day were impacted by the closure. It also led to an increase in flight times as planes had to bypass Pakistani airspace. The closure, hence, resulted in increased fuel expenses, operational costs and maintenance costs as well as higher duty hours for the aircrew.

Out of the losses incurred, one was direct impact in revenues for the Civil Aviation Authority from route navigation and airport charges that are levied on aircraft flying over or landing in Pakistan, as mentioned in a report in Hindustan Times. These charges depend on multiple factors such as the category of aircraft and the distance covered within the Pakistani airspace. A source told the daily that it can be assumed that Pakistan incurred losses due to overflight charges alone for the CAA would be about $232,000. The losses touch $300,000 if charges for terminal navigation, landing and parking of aircraft are included.

Additionally, state-run Pakistan International Airlines is also suffering losses to the tune of $460,000 a day due to suspension of flights to international destinations such as Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok and Delhi. That they had to fly for longer durations due to the closure also did not help matters. The combined daily losses of CAA and PIA of about $760,000 have resulted in the total loss of almost $100 million since the restrictions were imposed. Several foreign airlines have suspended or curtailed flights in the region due to the airspace closure due to longer duration of flights

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.. typical indian attitude - and what is the COST YOU GUYS ARE paying? did the website tell you ?
and last 3 lines are complete BS because british airlines has just landed last week - resuming its operations after a decade..
keep deluded in your lentils mate.. it will get you no where

 

[Meengla]

I wish there can be some face-saving measure found for India. A war is not good for either countries. Lord knows what the then President of Pakistan Ghulam Ishaq Khan meant when he said as early as late 1980s: "A war between India and Pakistan will be catastrophic for both countries." Since then the lethality of weapons has grown exponentially.

India, on its own capabilities, is not likely to surprise Pakistan especially with the Chinese satellites supposed to be monitoring every movement on the Indian side of the border. It's better to de-escalate. India should move its fighter crafts back.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Please please please keep emphasising that "India requests" the airspace ban to be lifted, even in the title of such threads. This fact is of greatest importance in the continued divulging of such reports.

Welcome to hybrid war, where embarrassment of the enemy is almost as powerful as an air strike. In the era of social media and instant global accessibility to news media, the tweet is mightier than the sword.

 

[SIPRA]

In the era of social media and instant global accessibility to news media, the tweet is mightier than the sword.

That is why, perhaps, that our DG(ISPR) has put his sword, in its sheath, long time back and is relying on tweets instead.

 

[Meengla]

Looks like even poor students are having to pay double airfare and have to spend a day or two extra in 3rd countries to fly to India. Diplomats are not happy either.


This Indian govt is truly stubborn! Ego is the mightiest. When Pakistan's Naval airplane Atlantique was shot down by India, there was a lot of anger and grief. But Pakistan accepted the loss and moved on. Even the Americans apologized for the Salala attack and moved on. That India got humiliated in February is for the world to see. But to not back off and provoke another confrontation--a confrontation which, even if successful, will cause a Pakistani response, is dangerous and immature. There are ups and downs in nations' histories. The events of February were not a mortal blow to India. Move on!!

https://www.thehindu.com/news/natio...rridor/article28281219.ece?utm_source=taboola

They complain of high flight charges and extra long distance travel
Denial of airspace by Pakistan is affecting Indian students and hindering the smooth conduct of diplomacy. Indian students based in Central Asia and diplomats of various countries have urged the Government of India to engage Pakistan on restoring airspace rights that were suspended after India hit targets in Pakistani territory on February 26.

“Earlier we paid around ₹30,000 but while returning in June, I had to pay around ₹60,000. We are students and cannot afford such high rates that airlines are charging us. We have reached out to former External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj on social media but our complaints were not addressed,” says Ashutosh Kumar Singh, a fifth year MBBS student of the Kazakh National Medical University of Almaty.

Students say that apart from the hike in ticket prices, they also have to deal with the extra long distance that Central Asian airlines are forced to fly, as Pakistan remains out of bounds for India-bound flights. “We have to spend a day or more in airports of Central Asia or the Gulf region before boarding a connecting flight that will fly the elongated route,” says a student who studies in Kazakhstan.

Students who booked tickets months in advance were inconvenienced when Air Astana, the biggest Central Asian airline suspended its flights to India after Pakistan denied airspace. It restarted flights on June 29, but it is yet to start the earlier daily flights. At present, the flights are operated only on Tuesdays, Thursdays, Saturdays and Sundays.

Kartarpur religious corridor
Students say that despite the tense ties, India has managed to maintain dialogue with Pakistan over the construction of the Kartarpur religious corridor. “If government can hold talks for religious corridor project with Pakistan, why is it not discussing the air corridors that is the requirement of thousands of inbound and outbound air passengers,” asks Zubair, a medical student

Diplomats too are disturbed by the difficulties they are facing in travelling to India. A Russian diplomat pointed out that Moscow was waiting for the end of Pakistan’s airspace denial. “It’s a bilateral issue that is affecting a huge number of countries. All Central Asian countries are facing enormous difficulties because of this issue. We are waiting for the opening of the airspace,” he said, adding that the Delhi-Moscow travelling time now took eight hours, and often connecting flights were lost because of the long duration flights that airlines needed to fly because of Pakistan’s blockade.

A Ukrainian diplomat also pointed out that the flying time from Delhi to Kiev had become at least two hours longer, leading to cancellation of connecting flights.

 

[Peshwa]

Which part of the story you did not understand? Indian establishment "requested", Pakistan "declined".

Pakistani Economy is on crutches, but rejects revenue earned from its arch enemy...
My analogy is perfect.
Like I said, keep it up Pakistan!

 

[atya]

These loss that are reported are speculative in nature..if people are forced to pay, they will pay it

Yes and it will majorly hit your tourist industry.

I don't think ban will go on for this long. india always surrenders infront of us rather quickly in times of high tension (recent beat down handed to india by Pakistan military is an example, unilateral withdrawal in 2001-02 after losing 2000 soldiers due to our artillery barrages is another example)..

So even here, though indian military is very likely itching for revenge and want to do something to save their lost face, they know Pakistan is too powerful and sophisticated for that. Any further attempt to use direct military action will bring about even more punishment from our air power and military prowess. Pakistan will always dominate the escalation ladder unless india wants to go to war? I am sure hindus are humiliated but not totally suicidal at this point. So that won't happen.



And this is where you are wrong

When india was building up its military muscle throughout 2000's and 2010's with Su-30MKIs, Miraages, Israeli avionics, latest missiles, and god knows what----indians (even indian military professionals/ex-military) always talked about how Pakistan is "scared" of india, and that india should punish Pakistan for terrorism blah blah.

While we, the sane Pakistanis, always tried to instill some common sense in gullible indians and told you had we been actually "scared"---We would have changed our policy decades ago. india can't inflict any military cost on Pakistan without sustaining disproportionately high damage itself. indians (hindus) don't have any military heritage or culture----since they have always been conquered and dominated by smaller forces of superior Islamic Civilization (and later European). So lacking any military DNA, indians (mostly hindus) couldn't see through the obvious...

And then 27th Feb military confrontation happened, and rest is history

india got utterly humiliated by smaller but superior Muslim forces yet again. Totally missed the intended target (as confirmed by *ALL* international, neutral, military sources)....and PAF retaliated by launching six air strikes inside india in response to one failed strike inside Pak, shooting down indian jets, capturing wing commander alive and parading it on live TV for the world to see, and indians ended up shooting down their own helicopter and killing 7 military personnel of their own in total panic

Now....you so credulously think Pakistan won't be able to 'surprise' you in next round of confrontation. Pray to god for your own national dignity's sake (whatever is left of it) that you don't have to find out anytime soon

That's post of the week for me

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Pakistani Economy is on crutches, but rejects revenue earned from its arch enemy...
My analogy is perfect.
Like I said, keep it up Pakistan!

Do you really think some petty cash is something we will lose our sleep over? Our geopolitical and strategic gains are much bigger.

Our enemy is begging us to open our airspace for its struggling Airliners. And we are enjoying this helplessness shown to us by our adversary. Remember, its India who is begging.