Pakistan receives $2 billion from Saudi Arabia: Ishaq Dar

[ProudThamizhan]

The biggest issue is Pak leadership has no sense of leadership.. They will muzzle anyone local but become idiots for sale when dealing with outsiders.

Just look at India - when they speak now, it is heard. When Pakistan speak, it is ah.. those terrorist sponsoring useless beggers.

Who is to blame - The GHQ point blank.

1. Why is it that all these dotards run away to foreign countries and during their tenure are allowed to keep overseas assets.
2. Why are they allowed to keep dual nationality.

Get rid of first 2.

For those harmed, the best course of action is to go through civil courts and Hague and launch crimes against humanity against these GHQ; you will see when their assets are siezed and scantions hit.

Leadership vacuum is one of the secondary issues. There’s a bigger issue

 

[PakFactor]

Let us put things in perspective
Accounting for hot wars South Asia was one of the poorest performing regions in the world at the end of the Cold War.

Pakistan's GDP was $38.5 billion in 1988 with population of 108 million with per captia income less than $400. India's numbers were $296 billion for 833 million people. I am sure Pakistani expatriates in the GCC states were close to today's numbers. There was a few billion in aid inflows US, multilateral and Gulf Arab following in for a decade. It does not take a whole lot to achieve the gains over India.

The only problem today is that you are competing against China and India for the leftovers

Bad policies started with Ayub Khan Era in Pakistan are often called the Golden Era of Pakistan. While some economic development happened, it has a not-so-sustainable bright side.

Ayub used loans and foreign aid to bankroll economic development, which is good; however, 60% of the foreign aid went into subsidizing imports, and this detrimental policy carried on for decades, and Ishaq Dar followed the exact blueprint. At that time, he used loans to prop the rupee, which made sense at that early growth stage, but not for a prolonged period.

In the end, what little industry he made, he gave to the 22 families in Pakistan, which controlled almost 66% of the country's total industrial assets, 70% of insurance, and 80% of its banking. What should have happened is a Pakistani version of the Sherman Act to break the stronghold of these several families who often have conspired among themselves to corner the market. These families also have profound political and military connections allowing them to kill off any rising competition.

After giving away those assets, no State Owned Enterprise (SOE) could sustain itself, burdening the taxpayers.

When several big players corner the market, human development and innovation decrease. The state had no money afterward, so technical and education institutions became dormant.

That $ 6,000,000 in foreign aid in Ayub Era is now worth approximately $ 36 billion in 2023 dollars adjusted. However, put into perspective, 60% of $ 36 billion was used to subsidize imports with no real economic growth impact.

People will say well, their grandparents and whatnot had jobs, and life was easy. Life is always easy when free money flows through.

Now had the funds been appropriately used and strong policies been set, we would have been on a different trajectory like India & Co. But as you've said, it's a little too late now, and we're fighting for breadcrumbs. Countries are shooting for Mars, while Pakistan is still trying to revolutionize farming.

Regarding farming and why this to will fail, 20,000 families, including Waderas, control almost 70% of fertile agricultural land; many of these individuals are in politics or have connections with the military. While the remaining small landowners, numbering around 2,000,000, control the rest. Those 20,000 or so families receive the most government subsidies and credits, while the lower rung barely receives any. If losses happen, it's absorbed and written off while the small-time farmer can't.

Now you think these industrialists and landowners would enact legislation against themselves for a more equitable solution where everyone has skin in the game?

I can go on and on, but this is my friend. What happens when incompetent and "yes sir" people are running the nation's affairs?

 

[nahtanbob]

Bad policies started with Ayub Khan Era in Pakistan are often called the Golden Era of Pakistan. While some economic development happened, it has a not-so-sustainable bright side.

Ayub used loans and foreign aid to bankroll economic development, which is good; however, 60% of the foreign aid went into subsidizing imports, and this detrimental policy carried on for decades, and Ishaq Dar followed the exact blueprint. At that time, he used loans to prop the rupee, which made sense at that early growth stage, but not for a prolonged period.

In the end, what little industry he made, he gave to the 22 families in Pakistan, which controlled almost 66% of the country's total industrial assets, 70% of insurance, and 80% of its banking. What should have happened is a Pakistani version of the Sherman Act to break the stronghold of these several families who often have conspired among themselves to corner the market. These families also have profound political and military connections allowing them to kill off any rising competition.

After giving away those assets, no State Owned Enterprise (SOE) could sustain itself, burdening the taxpayers.

When several big players corner the market, human development and innovation decrease. The state had no money afterward, so technical and education institutions became dormant.

That $ 6,000,000 in foreign aid in Ayub Era is now worth approximately $ 36 billion in 2023 dollars adjusted. However, put into perspective, 60% of $ 36 billion was used to subsidize imports with no real economic growth impact.

People will say well, their grandparents and whatnot had jobs, and life was easy. Life is always easy when free money flows through.

Now had the funds been appropriately used and strong policies been set, we would have been on a different trajectory like India & Co. But as you've said, it's a little too late now, and we're fighting for breadcrumbs. Countries are shooting for Mars, while Pakistan is still trying to revolutionize farming.

Regarding farming and why this to will fail, 20,000 families, including Waderas, control almost 70% of fertile agricultural land; many of these individuals are in politics or have connections with the military. While the remaining small landowners, numbering around 2,000,000, control the rest. Those 20,000 or so families receive the most government subsidies and credits, while the lower rung barely receives any. If losses happen, it's absorbed and written off while the small-time farmer can't.

Now you think these industrialists and landowners would enact legislation against themselves for a more equitable solution where everyone has skin in the game?

I can go on and on, but this is my friend. What happens when incompetent and "yes sir" people are running the nation's affairs?

To summarize:
no land reforms
narrow political elite
little investment in human development
little investment in infrastructure
too much consumption

all the trademarks of weak developing country

 

[Communism]

Bad policies started with Ayub Khan Era in Pakistan are often called the Golden Era of Pakistan. While some economic development happened, it has a not-so-sustainable bright side.

Ayub used loans and foreign aid to bankroll economic development, which is good; however, 60% of the foreign aid went into subsidizing imports, and this detrimental policy carried on for decades, and Ishaq Dar followed the exact blueprint. At that time, he used loans to prop the rupee, which made sense at that early growth stage, but not for a prolonged period.

In the end, what little industry he made, he gave to the 22 families in Pakistan, which controlled almost 66% of the country's total industrial assets, 70% of insurance, and 80% of its banking. What should have happened is a Pakistani version of the Sherman Act to break the stronghold of these several families who often have conspired among themselves to corner the market. These families also have profound political and military connections allowing them to kill off any rising competition.

After giving away those assets, no State Owned Enterprise (SOE) could sustain itself, burdening the taxpayers.

When several big players corner the market, human development and innovation decrease. The state had no money afterward, so technical and education institutions became dormant.

That $ 6,000,000 in foreign aid in Ayub Era is now worth approximately $ 36 billion in 2023 dollars adjusted. However, put into perspective, 60% of $ 36 billion was used to subsidize imports with no real economic growth impact.

People will say well, their grandparents and whatnot had jobs, and life was easy. Life is always easy when free money flows through.

Now had the funds been appropriately used and strong policies been set, we would have been on a different trajectory like India & Co. But as you've said, it's a little too late now, and we're fighting for breadcrumbs. Countries are shooting for Mars, while Pakistan is still trying to revolutionize farming.

Regarding farming and why this to will fail, 20,000 families, including Waderas, control almost 70% of fertile agricultural land; many of these individuals are in politics or have connections with the military. While the remaining small landowners, numbering around 2,000,000, control the rest. Those 20,000 or so families receive the most government subsidies and credits, while the lower rung barely receives any. If losses happen, it's absorbed and written off while the small-time farmer can't.

Now you think these industrialists and landowners would enact legislation against themselves for a more equitable solution where everyone has skin in the game?

I can go on and on, but this is my friend. What happens when incompetent and "yes sir" people are running the nation's affairs?

The solution is simple.


Have the Pakistani Military Establishment requisition all farmland into the Military and have them work as Military industries.


There is exactly 1 institution that functions in Pakistan, therefore it should be in charge of as much of the economy as is feasible.


Perhaps the Pakistani Military could transform itself slowly into a Communist Vanguard Party style institution.

Vanguardism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[PakFactor]

The solution is simple.


Have the Pakistani Military Establishment requisition all farmland into the Military and have them work as Military industries.


There is exactly 1 institution that functions in Pakistan, therefore it should be in charge of as much of the economy as is feasible.


Perhaps the Pakistani Military could transform itself slowly into a Communist Vanguard Party style institution.

Vanguardism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Centralized control is a failed form of economic management. It also strangles growth and innovation.

The military already has an industry base of basic goods and material manufacturing. However, it's not the military's job to run businesses and enterprises.

Anyhow, the military has also shown its ineptness in various failed projects and ventures.

 

[Communism]

Centralized control is a failed form of economic management. It also strangles growth and innovation.

The military already has an industry base of basic goods and material manufacturing. However, it's not the military's job to run businesses and enterprises.

Anyhow, the military has also shown its ineptness in various failed projects and ventures.

The Government will never reform agriculture, so what is your solution?

 

[nahtanbob]

The Government will never reform agriculture, so what is your solution?

People throw terms like "Reform" easily around. What exactly is reform ?

 

[PakFactor]

To summarize:
no land reforms
narrow political elite
little investment in human development
little investment in infrastructure
too much consumption

all the trademarks of weak developing country

Yes, including:

- To much corruption (all branches of government)

- The weak legal system (we had a family case starting from my grandfather up to me, and I pulled the plug no more and lost the case next hearing; this case went on for 50 years for a residential/commercial mix building)


In all sense, it's a failed country; if Pakistan stays or not, the world will not lose sleep over it. It's never wise to bet on a dead horse hence you saw the reluctance of the Arabs to send money until the last minute and I'm sure some national assets were put up as collateral.

 

[Communism]

People throw terms like "Reform" easily around. What exactly is reform ?

The "Reform" I am talking about is a minimum requirement type thing.


Something like simply upgrading the yields through implementing the latest corporate farming techniques.


I'm not talking about major reforms like the kind where ownership structure changes massively or anything radical like that.


Perhaps saving a bit of water by going from flood irrigation to sprinkler irrigation to allow more farmland to be active at once.

 

[nahtanbob]

The "Reform" I am talking about is a minimum requirement type thing.


Something like simply upgrading the yields through implementing the latest corporate farming techniques.


I'm not talking about major reforms like the kind where ownership structure changes massively or anything radical like that.


Perhaps saving a bit of water by going from flood irrigation to sprinkler irrigation to allow more farmland to be active at once.

Land Reform has a whole different connotation. the right word here is improvement/modernization

 

[Communism]

Land Reform has a whole different connotation. the right word here is improvement/modernization

Ideally it would be done in a corporate fashion though, as implementing them in small holder farms is a total pain and cost inefficient.


That would be my "stretch goal", and why I used that term.


The upgradation from Feudal structure to Capitalist structure.

 

[PakFactor]

The "Reform" I am talking about is a minimum requirement type thing.


Something like simply upgrading the yields through implementing the latest corporate farming techniques.


I'm not talking about major reforms like the kind where ownership structure changes massively or anything radical like that.


Perhaps saving a bit of water by going from flood irrigation to sprinkler irrigation to allow more farmland to be active at once.

The top 5% of landholders owning 70% of the agri-land will benefit, and they are known to hoard production that was yielded. Going back to my previous point, any credit borrowed will also go to them, and they will benefit the most. It is also known that the vast majority of 8 million farmers (which includes 2 million high acreage holders) are forced to sell at lower prices, an issue Imran corrected, and PDM got rid of; we currently use an outdated system for this.

What will hold back Pakistan is that we have no infrastructure the farmers can utilize for innovative farming procedures. You also have no money to take on these big projects that will take decades to yield results.

 

[Communism]

The top 5% of landholders owning 70% of the agri-land will benefit, and they are known to hoard production that was yielded. Going back to my previous point, any credit borrowed will also go to them, and they will benefit the most. It is also known that the vast majority of 8 million farmers (which includes 2 million high acreage holders) are forced to sell at lower prices, an issue Imran corrected, and PDM got rid of; we currently use an outdated system for this.

What will hold back Pakistan is that we have no infrastructure the farmers can utilize for innovative farming procedures. You also have no money to take on these big projects that will take decades to yield results.

Simply auction off all of the farmland in Pakistan that doesn't meet minimum modernization requirements to the highest bidder.


You should then hit high enough economies of scale to be able to afford the capital outlay.

 

[PakFactor]

Simply auction off all of the farmland in Pakistan that doesn't meet minimum modernization requirements to the highest bidder.


You should then hit high enough economies of scale to be able to afford the capital outlay.

Those who control the land control the law-making powers in the country. Do you think one would smite himself?

I will put the condition of Pakistan for you as simple as it is: Image Rockefeller and his family controlling Standard Oil in Pakistan, coming into politic's forming a political party, and making the laws for themselves and their industry friends. Their family and friends join various departments and control various levers of power; now, imagine a few families doing this at local, regional, and state levels and aligned to Rockefeller. In turn, you throw breadcrumbs at the military.

 

[Communism]

Those who control the land control the law-making powers in the country. Do you think one would smite himself?

I will put the condition of Pakistan for you as simple as it is: Image Rockefeller and his family controlling Standard Oil in Pakistan, coming into politic's forming a political party, and making the laws for themselves and their industry friends. Their family and friends join various departments and control various levers of power; now, image a few families doing this at local, regional, and state levels and aligned to Rockefeller.

Have the GCC countries to bribe them and buy their land.