Pakistan Rebuffs Indian Defence Minister Allegations

[Jay_]

Sir,
I totally agree. That pdf was quite an interesting read. I was pretty surprised that they adapted pretty quickly to the terrain, as well as they understood the fighting capabilities of the rebels and changed their tactics accordingly in run time. They used their resources pretty well and I think thats what every Army wants to do in the battlefield.

But I still wonder how they managed to have an effective command with out giving more responsibility to the lower order and not having NCO's.

Its just not Afghanistan that broke them Sir, I would say its their incorrect economic policy back home.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

But I still wonder how they managed to have an effective command with out giving more responsibility to the lower order and not having NCO's.

Theirs is an orders oriented army. Like I said before, they don't train for battle. They reherse the battle. If they reherse right, it's gravy. If they reherse wrong, it's graveyard. Each man is given a role and no deviation is expected nor tolerated.

The fact that once they knew how the enemy would react; they can plan their battles accordingly. The Mujahadeen lacked such discipline.

Its just not Afghanistan that broke them Sir, I would say its their incorrect economic policy back home.

Well, as I said, Afghanistan was the straw that broke the camel's back but make no mistake, it was still a straw. In the scheme of things, Afghanistan was a very minor drain in the overall Soviet economy. The NATO-Warsaw Pact was the biggest military drain of all. They went broke (as nearly did we) over NATO-Warsaw Pact, not Afghanistan.

 

[tahirkhely]

Time has run out for the UN and Pakistan. J&K is firmly under Indian control and anyone who thinks otherwise can day dream,


Lets get the facts straight here. Balohistan announced independence and was forced by Pakistan to accede.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balochistan_(Pakistan)


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4195933.stm

If India supports BLA fulltime, it wont remain a part of Pakistan. India has denied any involvement with BLA or Balochi nationalists.

Did you read where Bugti is gonna setup his government in exile?

Impartial and unbiased references always help in optimal strategic and tactical planning.

 

[Jay_]

No oneliners otr chatsessions.

You are warned. If you keep degrading the forum then leave.

Munir.

 

[sword9]

Originally Posted by Jay_
Time has run out for the UN and Pakistan. J&K is firmly under Indian control and anyone who thinks otherwise can day dream

India can have the same dream about AK.

Neo,
The big difference is that India or Indians are not obsessed about AK/NA (as you refer to that region). We don't loose any sleep out it.

Jay, I think that you're unaware of the fact that the Partition act was about two nation theory.
Either join India or Pakistan, independancy from both was not an option.
Thats probably the reason Hari Singh delayed the referendum untill he had to make a choice. He wanted independant Kashmir, all for himself.

On the contrary "Independence from both" was an option according to the Indian Independence Act 1947.

Btw, Balochistan wasn't forced a la Hyderabad.

You are misinformed, read below...

The khan of Kalat in Balochistan declared independence on August 15, 1947, but offered to negotiate a special relationship with Pakistan. Other Baloch sardar (tribal chiefs) also expressed their preference for a separate identity. Pakistan took military action against them and the khan and brought about their accession in 1948.
http://countrystudies.us/pakistan/14.htm

Both the princely states (Balochistan and Hyderabad) were bought under control by similar means by both the countries for one simple reason - you cannot have an independent void within the borders of your own country.

USSR lost heavily in Afghanistan, India has no clue what will happen to her if she started to support BLA fulltime.
Believe me, it will backfire.

As I have said many times earlier, if the Pak Army policy in J&K remains unchanged, combined with the nuclear shadow, then the only option left for India is to reply in the same coin, the Baloch problem has been offerd on a platter.

If Pakistan disintegrates, India will follow...

India has still not interfered in Balwaristan, and that is another hornets nest in the making.

If the jihad in J&K is not stemmed, India will be forced to make things uncomfortable for the Pak Army in the regions mentioned.

Its a pure and simple chess move.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Jay,
Kashmir is a disbupted territory regocnosed by the UN. Whatever happens there affects India and Pakistan and ofcourse the Kashmiris.


First of all Balochistan is an integral part of Pakistan officially acceeded after the partition and its not a disputed territory.
Secondly, India has tried to meddle in Balochistan.

Balochistan acceded and indeed is a part of Pakistan.

However, if India has tried to meddle with Balochistan, it would be nice to have some supporting links to the issue.

In so far as Kashmir is concerned, the Instrument of Accession is as valid a document as the accession by the Khan of Kalat. Technically, thus Kashmir is not a disputed area.

However, with the connivance of Colonel Brown who organised the mutiny with the Gilgit Scouts and imprisoned the Governor Ghansara Singh and then sending the hordes down the Muzzafarabad - Srinagar road caused the issue to become "disputed". The British played a sterling role in this issue starting with Colonel Brown.

By the time this issue became a UN matter, India had thwarted the effort of the then US Secretary of State John Foster Dulles to bring India into his ambit. This was in the 1950s. Pakistan came into the US ambit however. Thus, the issue of dispute stuck since support to the dispute ensured US to bring Pakistan into its warm hug. The entry of Pakistan thereafter into the US Camp including joining Pacts like CENTO and SEATO is history.

In so far as Balochistan is concerned, the way the Pakistan Govt is approaching the issue, it cannot be solved. Use of air and artillery causes massive destruction unlike the use of Small Arms. The scars become indelible. Iraq is an excellent example. While there would be many in Iraq who would have been delighted by the fall of Saddam, they would not be equally enthusiastic with the scars of war pitted all over to remind them of the huge price in life and property they had to suffer for the charm of getting a whiff of "Freedom and Democracy" (sic!).

As per the Pakistani media there has been a hint that Balochistan is not the handiwork of India. It has hinted at 'greater powers' which could be involved.

Who benefits maximum from Balochistan? I leave it to you.

Let us merely see why Balochistan is important in the geostrategic paradigm.

If Balochistan is within one's sphere of influence, then Iran gets "boxed in". Who requires Iran to get boxed in?

If Balochistan is friendly, then the Chinese plan to have Gwadar initially as a listening post for activities in the Middle East and then as a naval base as per the Chinese "string of pearls" strategy to offset her lack of a blue water navy can be thwarted. It would also allow a dominance of the sealanes of the Arabian Sea. Who benefits because of this?

The Central Asian Republic oil is an key input. The oil is to be shipped through a pipeline through Afghanistan - Balochistan and then to the port of Gwadar. Until Afghanistan and Balochistan is within the sphere of influence is this feasible? The oil is required for the boosting the flagging economy of the US since it will be selling the same to the oil guzzler of the 2020s i.e. India and China! Oil today and for the future is a strategic weapon. I don't think that requires explanation. In this context, two issues are very interesting. Dick Cheney criticised Russia for backsliding on democracy and praised Kazakhstan.

A day after scolding Russia for retreating on democracy, Vice President Cheney flew to oil-rich Kazakhstan yesterday and lavished praise on the autocratic leader of a former Soviet republic where opposition parties have been banned, newspapers shut down and advocacy groups intimidated.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/05/AR2006050501490.html

Interesting, what?

The second issue is why is the US so keen on bombing South Waziristan? Other parts of NWFP are Taleban free?

Therefore, the Balochistan issue is an interesting issue and to believe that it will be solved in a jiffy is a moot point.

Bu then, who knows?

 

[Jay_]

Jay, Stop posting flaming onesided stories. It is not bollywood. If you look at the world then every part wants to independent. You see the same in Ireland or Spain. India has many problems of its own. If you keep destroying objectivity then accept this as a first warning. I don't make jokes neither do I like onesided posts.

Munir,
I have made valid points, as you can see the quoted reply from Neo. I leave it to you to decide, what is bollywood fantasy and what is onesided.

 

[Neo]

Great analysis Salim Sahib!

Balochistan will only settle under a civil government with dialogue. We've seen problems under military regime before.
I made the allegation that India is meddling into our affairs cause it is true. Indian FM made inapproperiate comments on the situation in Balochistan just before Bushes visit to Delhi, thats direct meddling in our internal affairs.

Eventhough India is usually pointed as our long time enemy, its true that bigger powers are after Balochistan and we all know who they are.

Gwadar will have deep impact on the political course Balochistan will set as Pakistan enters second round of reforms. GoP is keen to give power to common Balochi, curb feudal system and end this slavery which in the first place is the key to the problem.

People who used to operate for BLA have come out in the open, openly commenting how they were misled and deceived.
Just a matter of time and all Balochis will start to 'feel' the rapid development as it will directly improve their lives.

 

[Neo]

Worse mistakte one can make is to underestimate the enemy. How to tell the difference between wolf and sheep?
US is a long time ally of Pakistan, but merely a very good wether friend.

I have no idea if China will allow any US action in Balochistan, afterall Gwadar is part of the Chinese plan.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I made the allegation that India is meddling into our affairs cause it is true. Indian FM made inapproperiate comments on the situation in Balochistan just before Bushes visit to Delhi, thats direct meddling in our internal affairs.

All politicians love stating something to be in the news!

Even Musharraf makes the most inappropriate statement about Pakistanis themselves like the one on women. Everyone takes that seriously but obviously such statements are playing to the gallery and nothing more.

I agree the damage is done! :p

So long as Musharraf is US' friend, China is apparently being kept as a backburner!