Pakistan Reaches Out for Russian Arms

[bhangra12345]

Actually the deduction is somewhat inaccurate and is not Mirages......I'll say that much.....

thx for pinning me down. i forgot the swedish gripen option and the history of swedes of being neutral. this thing i find it good, better service and possibly spares.

P.s: keys, dont reply to this if you want to maintain a semblance of secrecy. Fighter manufacturing countries are only few,(india,russia, china,us,uk, france,europe(eurofighter),sweden). Deduction by elimination is very simple.
Fighter aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Keysersoze]

The thing is of course that this whole discussion is only valid if the deal with the F-16's goes south. I personally don't think that it will. the U.S. has more need of PAK then in previous years.If they start slapping sanctions on PAK then they could see all the co-operation they have received go swirling and then they will have lost yet another regional ally (Of which they have very few)

 

[bhangra12345]

The thing is of course that this whole discussion is only valid if the deal with the F-16's goes south. I personally don't think that it will. the U.S. has more need of PAK then in previous years.If they start slapping sanctions on PAK then they could see all the co-operation they have received go swirling and then they will have lost yet another regional ally (Of which they have very few)

However IF the official sources are themselves contemplating this situation of having a backup ready, that means they dont have enough confidence and they believe that there is a semblance of a chance that the deal goes south.

 

[blain2]

well you gave pretty good clues, so they are going for mirages, ok.

Deduction by elimination:eurofighter/typhoon too costly. rafale still in queue, mirages line is going to shutdown in few years, possibly pakistan wants their mirages to be the last run. assuming pakistan is going for first hand ofcourse. and then their most important plus point, they are the cheapest nuclear delivery option.

My advice if above deduction is right: Dont go for them. You would find spares(the last units always find this problem) and service costly.

Mirage assembly line has been closed...last ones were HAF M2Ks. Pakistan's choices if the F-16 does not happen would be Gripen or Rafale. If F-16 is not forthcoming then PAF would not have much luck with Gripen either. The focus within the PAF is altogether on a different track though for the continued supply of high end tech.

 

[bhangra12345]

Mirage assembly line has been closed...last ones were HAF M2Ks.

Didnt know about this. Has it already been closed? Last I heard they were in the process of closing down. So my deduction(with amnesia about gripen).

 

[Neo]

Well they already have a NON -U.S. (Western) option already lined up in the event. They have no need to find options from Russia. I even know which platform they would opt for. However I am not at liberty to discuss the specifics. Neo would be able to back me up on this.

One thing we've learnt from our dealing with Americans, i.e. sanctions and embargoes, is to have a workable and affordable back up and this time we're doing it right. Downscaling the block 52 F-16C/D option was the first step in the right direction. Not only does it make us less dependant and vulnerable in case new sanctions are imposed, it also saves a lot of funds, money that can dirctly be made available to a more expensive alternative. How is it possible? Well, the block 52 F-16C/D is to be financed by USaid, not Pakistani cash. the latter can and will be raised incase we go for the alternative.

We're not at liberty at this time to reveal more details, but PAF's planned modernisation and expension won't be affected, this much we can tell.

 

[bhangra12345]

How is it possible? Well, the block 52 F-16C/D is to be financed by USaid, not Pakistani cash. the latter can and will be raised incase we go for the alternative.

Basically you are saying we will take f-16s as long as they give us free, if we have to pay, we wont pay them, we will go for the "discussed" option, right?

 

[Neo]

No, I'm just saying that we've played our cards well this time. We're eager to get the F-16's but no longer desperate or without alternatives.
If the Democrates decide to cut aid PAF will order the alternative, funds are available.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi Josh,

You see, if india crosses that hurdle and accepts the bid of 126 F 18's---it is a new begining for your country and whatever the politicians or anybody else says, there will be no going back for the indians. American war machine and weaponery is very addictive.

Trust me on this---once you start driving the corvette of sports cars, you won't be going bakc to the ZIL's and Lada's. Alongwith the fighters, there will be other packages available of a different assortment of gadgets and toys to which russia may not be able to compete for. Once your millitary starts using american equipment, they won't settle for anything less. Once you start buying made in america, you will start thinking in american, you will have american nuclear reactors, american warplanes, you have american call centers, you have more commerce with america, you look forward to millitary excercises with american forces, it truly is not in india's best interest to keep its friendship with russia at the same old level. Russia does not have much to offer to india at this time except for teh good old times.

India has the oppurtunity to go for its prom date with the number one boy-friend--america---so what is there to look back at now, except for the pre-neptual agreement that was signed in the form of nuclear treaty. Other than that it is a --' blitzer bleiter'.

On the other hand, pakistan and russia will find find out that they are natural allies. Once afghan issue is settled and american forces leave, that realization would hit real hard and there will be an urge to do something.

Does america know that---off course it does. That is why it may not leave any sooner than expected. I mean---just look around---there is so much un-predictability in american reaction, you never know what to expect.

 

[ied_blast]

Hi Josh,

You see, if india crosses that hurdle and accepts the bid of 126 F 18's---it is a new begining for your country and whatever the politicians or anybody else says, there will be no going back for the indians. American war machine and weaponery is very addictive.

Trust me on this---once you start driving the corvette of sports cars, you won't be going bakc to the ZIL's and Lada's. Alongwith the fighters, there will be other packages available of a different assortment of gadgets and toys to which russia may not be able to compete for. Once your millitary starts using american equipment, they won't settle for anything less. Once you start buying made in america, you will start thinking in american, you will have american nuclear reactors, american warplanes, you have american call centers, you have more commerce with america, you look forward to millitary excercises with american forces, it truly is not in india's best interest to keep its friendship with russia at the same old level. Russia does not have much to offer to india at this time except for teh good old times.

India has the oppurtunity to go for its prom date with the number one boy-friend--america---so what is there to look back at now, except for the pre-neptual agreement that was signed in the form of nuclear treaty. Other than that it is a --' blitzer bleiter'.

On the other hand, pakistan and russia will find find out that they are natural allies. Once afghan issue is settled and american forces leave, that realization would hit real hard and there will be an urge to do something.

Does america know that---off course it does. That is why it may not leave any sooner than expected. I mean---just look around---there is so much un-predictability in american reaction, you never know what to expect.

i dont agree mate
first russian jets are know for there maneuverities.....as for aveonics we still can & must go for top of the shelf israeli system, indian software.
so a mig35 mki like su30mki is feasible.

its not american nuclear tech ..its higher end american nuclear tech.
but still we have to go for indeginious three stage thorioum reactors & fast breeders.
which americans dont have...they have droped there fast breeder programme.

Russia does not have much to offer to india?
you must be joking mate.....future is central asian gas & russia is the gateway....not only
this there r other things, look SCO.... pakistan is also trying to be a memeber of same.

boyfriend@america.....but history tells all the valentine gifts had gone to pakistan.

and last, once the american leave afghanistan .......pakistan must watchout for russian
revenge (may be i m wrong) but russian never forgot what they reseave.

 

[josh21x]

Hi Josh,

You see, if india crosses that hurdle and accepts the bid of 126 F 18's---it is a new begining for your country and whatever the politicians or anybody else says, there will be no going back for the indians. American war machine and weaponery is very addictive.

Trust me on this---once you start driving the corvette of sports cars, you won't be going bakc to the ZIL's and Lada's. Alongwith the fighters, there will be other packages available of a different assortment of gadgets and toys to which russia may not be able to compete for. Once your millitary starts using american equipment, they won't settle for anything less. Once you start buying made in america, you will start thinking in american, you will have american nuclear reactors, american warplanes, you have american call centers, you have more commerce with america, you look forward to millitary excercises with american forces, it truly is not in india's best interest to keep its friendship with russia at the same old level. Russia does not have much to offer to india at this time except for teh good old times.

India has the oppurtunity to go for its prom date with the number one boy-friend--america---so what is there to look back at now, except for the pre-neptual agreement that was signed in the form of nuclear treaty. Other than that it is a --' blitzer bleiter'.

On the other hand, pakistan and russia will find find out that they are natural allies. Once afghan issue is settled and american forces leave, that realization would hit real hard and there will be an urge to do something.

Does america know that---off course it does. That is why it may not leave any sooner than expected. I mean---just look around---there is so much un-predictability in american reaction, you never know what to expect.

I have seen your posts before, and they have been nothing short of drop dead awesome. But I have to say you are completely offtrack here. You are missing the importance Russians have with India and vice versa. 15 billion(MMRCA budget for a period 12 years) is PEANUTS in the Russia-India arms context. You have to give the Indian diplomats far more credit. India has never been any country's poodle even at the heights of Soviet Union(NAM), Look at the conditions we have got for the Nuclear Deal, Who is going to benefit from it, its not the US but France and Russia.
Your analysis way off, and at best "conspiracy theory cabbie"
You are basing your anaylsis on fickle characterizations, but forgetting that it is not an individual but a number of teams.
You forget that India doesnt function like Pakistan, therefore will never be in the situation that Pakistan is in, how much ever you may want it to otherwise.

PAK-FA, remember that.
ATV and AKULA!!! Russians and Indians have far more important things than the MMRCA. For god sakes atleast once, talk in way that your country stand on their own feet, and doesnt need china, US or Russia. Why is Pakistan so ready to parade itself?
India is conducting wargames with Russia as we speak, in mid october they are doing it with CHina.
If India can have US on their side, when Pakistan is MNNA,
Trust me, India is way above everyone including the chinese when it comes to the Russians. The relationship have been on mutual respect, that is not something Pakistan have had with US,

 

[EagleEyes]

Trust me, India is way above everyone including the chinese when it comes to the Russians. The relationship have been on mutual respect, that is not something Pakistan have had with US,

Please. Dream on!!

 

[fatman17]

dear friends from across the border...
things are certainly looking peachy for india. nuke deal, strategic partnership with usa - friendship pact with russia, EU strategic partnership but u will need to walk a tight rope. no slip-ups in the agreements.
pak has learned its lessons the hard way. we are diversifying our needs but we need a stable environment around us. God willing it will happen soon.

 

[josh21x]

Please. Dream on!!

And I can see that you dont know much about India-Russian Ties, as well as China-Russian Border disputes. Russia doesnt see India as future threat, while sees China that way.

 

[josh21x]

dear friends from across the border...
things are certainly looking peachy for india. nuke deal, strategic partnership with usa - friendship pact with russia, EU strategic partnership but u will need to walk a tight rope. no slip-ups in the agreements.
pak has learned its lessons the hard way. we are diversifying our needs but we need a stable environment around us. God willing it will happen soon.

Thank you, in world politics, there is nothing peachy. Is what we can offer and what they can give.
India doesnt function like Pakistan wether politics, foriegn policy, diplomacy. It has different demographic, culture towards nationalism, economics, military strength etc etc
So that comparison is invalid, historical similies to pakistan-america relationship..I dont think so.
And yes, we have your history and experiences..therefore we are better prepared to deal with America than you were.