Pakistan: Presidential or Parliamentary System?

[Sugarcane]

Without other major changes the likes of Billy Zardari still has unfair advantage. Remember his mother left him slaves aka PPP

No doubt

 

[lem34]

Not if voting is direct. Zardari might get votes in his village but he will get zero votes in other parts of the country. On the other hand some one like IK is guaranteed to win against him since he is popular with people. On the other hand in parliamentary system people like Zardari have advantage. In presidential system their political life is finished.

Nope mate you do not realise the feudals own land others own "factories". The people living on those lands owe a blind loyalty as do employees to employer as the current system stands they will vote for who they are told to vote for

 

[longbrained]

mate the people are in invisible chains.


When an elephant is young, if a trainer puts a chain around its leg and restrains it from moving far, the young elephant will initially try to escape.

After trying for a while, the animal realises that escaping is futile and gives in to the restraint, enabling the trainer to control the elephant for the rest of its life. From then on, all that is required is a chain around its leg and a wooden peg in the ground that you or I could pull out, but the elephant doesn’t.

Why?

Because it doesn’t think that it can.

The Elephant and the Chain – What’s Holding You Back? « Better Life Coaching Blog

Well, we have to start somewhere, no? The current system has clearly failed and has big shortcomings. I know what you are trying to say though. At any rate, this is how Jinnah had made the Pakistan (Governor General). It was only later that Feudal took over and made it into a dysfunctional parliamentary system.

 

[lem34]

No doubt

They want Islamic and here they are praying to her?? Why excelled in corruption and theft??

 

[KingMamba]

Maybe a constitutional monarchy who is given control of armed forced like the one in england?
That way army cannot interfere in politics regardless of what system Pakistan implements it needs to rein in the army or there will always be a chance of a military coup.

I'm willing to volunteer for the role as King

 

[lem34]

Well, we have to start somewhere, no? The current system has clearly failed and has big shortcomings. I know what you are trying to say though. At any rate, this is how Jinnah had made the Pakistan (Governor General). It was only later that Feudal took over and made it into a dysfunctional parliamentary system.

Well the system that is ideal for a semi illiterate people may not be one that suits a literate people.

We need to consider are we considering the ideal system or an ideal system for Pakistan today?

 

[longbrained]

Nope mate you do not realise the feudals own land others own "factories". The people living on those lands owe a blind loyalty as do employees to employer as the current system stands they will vote for who they are told to vote for

Yes, and that is why parliamentary system has to go. I have gone over the math of the thing and the parliamentary system gives overwhelming advantage to such owners. A presidential system greatly reduces the power of such owners. You see, a large chunk of Pakistan is truly free and live in towns and cities. There are even huge number of villages which do not have any owners and people own their own land. Add in Pakistan army soldiers votes and a presidential system would favor these guys. In parliamentary system on the other hand all these free votes are crushed by some scums elected in owned villages and lands. We have to pick something better, and I guess this is it. Can you imagine some one like Ahmadinejad be elected in a parliamentary system? That is why I think presidential system is more advantageous.

 

[Jango]

Nope mate you do not realise the feudals own land others own "factories". The people living on those lands owe a blind loyalty as do employees to employer as the current system stands they will vote for who they are told to vote for

The bright point is that PPP has lost its bank in urban areas, and urban areas constitute around 50% of the population. It's a two horse race there, and the PTI horse is far ahead in Punjab and KPK than the other one. If the urban people get out in numbers, and the rural people not hogged into voting and they make the right choice, there is a chance for the right resonance to come in and implement the changes. You should watch awam ki adalat with imran khan, and what he had to say about this particular practice of owning factories and being MNA.

 

[lem34]

Maybe a constitutional monarchy who is given control of armed forced like the one in england?
That way army cannot interfere in politics regardless of what system Pakistan implements it needs to rein in the army or there will always be a chance of a military coup.

I'm willing to volunteer for the role as King

In the UK the powers of Royal Prerogative by convention are exercised by the PM. I for one do not want to be a subject. We have no modern history where one family has had power and then accommodated and lip service paid to the idea- a big no imo

Yes, and that is why parliamentary system has to go. I have gone over the math of the thing and the parliamentary system gives overwhelming advantage to such owners. A presidential system greatly reduces the power of such owners. You see, a large chunk of Pakistan is truly free and live in towns and cities. There are even huge number of villages which do not have any owners and people own their own land. Add in Pakistan army soldiers votes and a presidential system would favor these guys. In parliamentary system on the other hand all these free votes are crushed by some scums elected in owned villages and lands. We have to pick something better, and I guess this is it. Can you imagine some one like Ahmadinejad be elected in a parliamentary system? That is why I think presidential system is more advantageous.

No question I agree with you. But I did not realise we were limiting change.

 

[Jango]

Longbrains points are very convincing to me.

But frankly, I don't see the benefactors of the current system giving way.

As you said that a constitutional amendment is needed, but that amendment needs to be passed by the same benefactors first, and the protagonists of your system would simply not be in assemblies to vote in favour.

 

[longbrained]

Well the system that is ideal for a semi illiterate people may not be one that suits a literate people.

We need to consider are we considering the ideal system or an ideal system for today?

I know. I know. But still even with illiteracy, I think a presidential system would be much better and can bring change with least amount of blood spilled. The other alternative would be a real revolution which always costs lives. See the Russian revolution, Chinese and Iranian. Literally river of bloods flowed. Do we want that? Or do we want the current instability due to paralysis of current parliamentary system allow people like Taliban to take advantage? I guess we need to think about such things. The people are accepting to fall to their knees infront of their owners because they have no alternative. What I am saying is give them the alternative to have a powerful president and then judge those people. Believe me Pakistani's are not stupid. Just the hungry belly and extreme needs have bent their back. This can only be remedied by a strong political system.

I have seen diabetic people who can not afford Insulin (costs some Rs. 600 per vial). Believe me when I say this to you. An old lady was in Diabetic Ketoacidosis and did not have money for the insulin. She was dragging herself and was on the verge. If I was in her place I would have done anything to get that insulin, including prostration to a picture. Give people choice and then expect them to chose the right one. Right now they have no choice. All they ever get is a corrupt parliament after a corrupt parliament.

 

[muse]

"Islamic values" -- After all , we are not Sweden --- too bad of us.

 

[longbrained]

Longbrains points are very convincing to me.

But frankly, I don't see the benefactors of the current system giving way.

As you said that a constitutional amendment is needed, but that amendment needs to be passed by the same benefactors first, and the protagonists of your system would simply not be in assemblies to vote in favour.

That is why strong public demand is needed. The same public demand caused the last constitutional amendment if you remember. The lawyer movement and all. And if IK wins then he has the chance to go through with this. It is not impossible. J

 

[KingMamba]

In the UK the powers of Royal Prerogative by convention are exercised by the PM. I for one do not want to be a subject. We have no modern history where one family has had power and then accommodated and lip service paid to the idea- a big no imo



No question I agree with you. But I did not realise we were limiting change.

Yeah but the King could just be the figurehead like in Spain this system prevented a coup. Then we can have a presidential system along with this instead of parlimentary one where the President is voted directly by the people. In theory Imran Khan would win in a landslide and then he could go about cleaning the ***** out of parliment without having to watch his back from the military.

King- Commander of Armed Forces no power to declare war but has power to veto war like in England? I think I read that somewhere
President- 1 six year term can't be re elected voted directly by the people cannot be removed , can veto laws passed by Congress/parliment/w.e enforces laws all police and provincial level forces under his direct command, can declare war on approval from Congress/parliment
Parliment- Voted by people every 2 years, legislative branch passes laws
Supreme Court- Judicial branch can overturn Presidential veto of laws, can dock a law if deemed unconstitutional

Something along this lines just a theory what do you guys think

 

[lem34]

I know what you are saying. But China is a hybrid communist/capitalist system. Pakistan has a different history and this would not work here. .

Well give it a Pakistani twist