Pakistan possible answer against india nuclear submarine

[jalip]

will U boats will be sufficent to defend against indian threat are we have to go for neculear sub in near future

 

[amarnath]

will U boats will be sufficent to defend against indian threat are we have to go for neculear sub in near future

It depends on the efficiency of ones armed forces, To protect its Country no matter how the neighboring country is developing, And ofcourse An indigenous submarine with such caliber Can put pakistan to an alert stand.

 

[glomex]

As of now and I mean 2 yrs INS Arihant will be busy with Sea trials around Bay of Bengal....and will be fully operational by yr 2011.....

So this is what Pakistan Should Do.....


Short term:

1. Lease Nuclear submarine from Countries Like france, China or any Neutral Country. And the process should be Initiated ASAP so that the Submarine is delivered within next two years.


Long term:

1. Start the process for procurement of 2 to 3 Nuclear submarines ....ASAP...


Pakistan should not start development of Indigenous submarine...for two reasons....Pakistani coastline is not huge enough so that you can justify the cost of a huge project like that.... second...if development starts now...it might take more than a decade to bring that Submarine to Sea...

But for me the first reason stands valid....Return on investment....

Thats an honest suggestion....

 

[amarnath]

As of now and I mean 2 yrs INS Arihant will be busy with Sea trials around Bay of Bengal....and will be fully operational by yr 2011.....

So this is what Pakistan Should Do.....


Short term:

1. Lease Nuclear submarine from Countries Like france, China or any Neutral Country. And the process should be Initiated ASAP so that the Submarine is delivered within next two years.


Long term:

1. Start the process for procurement of 2 to 3 Nuclear submarines ....ASAP...


Pakistan should not start development of Indigenous submarine...for two reasons....Pakistani coastline is not huge enough so that you can justify the cost of a huge project like that.... second...if development starts now...it might take more than a decade to bring that Submarine to Sea...

But for me the first reason stands valid....Return on investment....

Thats an honest suggestion....

Yes, Thats What can be done.. well said mate.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

in my opinion... If PN ever considers a nuclear powered sub they should acquire only 1 or 2..
btw.. U-boats are more then enough to take down indian nuclear sub.. however the type-214 does not match nuclear capabilities such as almost unlimited range and the SLBM and more launch tubes.. mean while.. the more stealthier U-214 has a better chance to hunt that down..

 

[amarnath]

in my opinion... If PN ever considers a nuclear powered sub they should acquire only 1 or 2..
btw.. U-boats are more then enough to take down indian nuclear sub.. however the type-214 does not match nuclear capabilities such as almost unlimited range and the SLBM and more launch tubes.. mean while.. the more stealthier U-214 has a better chance to hunt that down..

Sounds Interesting mate .....

 

[nightrider_saulat]

NEWS AGOSTA SUBS FRON FRANCE AND UPGRADES ON AGOSTA 70s
CAN BE A VERY GOOD DEAL FOR PN AT THIS PART OF TIME

 

[arihant]

how much more pakistan wants to be under debt??


think little bit about your economy as well.

good luck.

But, still purchase of such weapons will boost morale of the

 

[Screaming Skull]

I have a very simple exercise for those who think that a conventional diesel electric sub can take out the Indian SSBN. Here it goes-

Estimate the shortest distance between any Pakistani Naval base and the Indian Vizag port in our east coast where our SSBN will be stationed. Then calculate the total time that any PN conventional sub (include the U214 if you like) would take to reach anywhere close to this port/base to fire its longest range torpedo, assuming that it travels at its fastest submerged speed. Now, compare the required time and the endurance of your subs. You will be in for a big shock!

My post is not meant to discredit PN or the diligence of the Pakistani armed forces and its people to match up to the Indian military. But the fact is that a nuclear powered SSBN can only be taken out with a nuclear powered attack sub, which Pakistan doesn't possess at the moment!

So, to address the theme of the thread, I would say that Pakistan will have to acquire/build a nuclear powered attack sub, if it wishes to take out the Indian nuclear powered SSBN.

Regards

 

[Super Falcon]

i think chinese jin class is very lethal submarine which launches nukes from its 8 silos inside it it is based on russian nuke submarine i hope pn will lease it and also buy its their are 4 types of nuke submarines china produces and france submarine is good but nuke submarine they will never sell if u214 and 2 nuke submarine and few destroyers pn gets pn will for sure give answers for next 15 years for all IN aquasitions

 

[Super Falcon]

i put some submarines config infront of u all nuke subs plz discuss on them and which is pn can go for

---------- Post added at 08:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 PM ----------

Six Barracuda nuclear-powered attack submarines are to be built for the French Navy. The Barracuda Class is being introduced to replace the existing force of the four SSN Rubis submarines which entered service from 1983 to 1988 and the two SSN Amethyst Class submarines which entered service in 1992 and 1993.

The Barracuda missions include anti-surface and fast deep anti-submarine warfare, land attack using stealthy long-range cruise missiles, surveillance and intelligence gathering, crisis management and special operations.

The Barracuda submarine is a key element in the FOST (Force Océanique Stratégique) Navy Command of the French Strategic Nuclear Forces and the Marine Nationale 2015 Navy Model which defines the naval force requirements for 2015.

"The Barracuda Class is being introduced to replace the existing force of the four SSN Rubis submarines."In 1998 the French Ministry of Defence put in place the Barracuda integrated project team (BIPT) with team members Délégation Générale pour l'Armament (DGA); DCN, with responsibility as the platform design authority and ship building prime contractor; Technicatome, which has responsibility for the nuclear power system; and the Commissariat à l'Énergie Atomique (CEA), the French nuclear regulatory authority.

The feasibility study for the Barracuda Class was successfully completed in 2002 and the programme entered the design definition phase in late 2002.

The French Defence Procurement Agency (DGA) awarded DCN and Areva TA (prime contractor for the nuclear powerplant) the contract for the design, development and production of the first of class vessel, with options on the remaining five, in December 2006. The first submarine is scheduled to enter service in 2017 with the remainder at two yearly intervals to 2027.

The first-of-class submarine will be called Suffren. The other hulls will be Duguay-Trouin, Dupetit-Thouars, Duquesne, Tourville and De Grasse. First steel for Suffren was cut in December 2007 at DCNS Cherbourg.

Barracuda submarine design

The Barracuda will have a displacement of about 4,100t surfaced, which is an increase of 70% compared to the Amethyste Class submarines. The maximum speed will be 25kt and the diving depth more than 350m.

The high level of automation integrated into the submarine's operational and mission systems will allow the submarine a complement of 60 (in two crews) compared to 78 in the Rubis and Amethyst Classes. The operational cost will be reduced by 30% compared to that of the Rubis Class.

The Barracuda incorporates a range of diving, safety and damage control technologies and an integrated platform management system (IPMS). Many of the technologies developed by DCN for the Le Triomphant Class and by Izar and DCN for the Agosta and Scorpene Classes are being integrated into the design of the Barracuda.

The ship design incorporates a range of stealth technologies to minimise the acoustic, magnetic, radar and visual signatures. The Barracuda provides a high silent running speed and manoeuvrability for the anti-submarine role.

EADS Astrium is supplying the life support system for the submarine, which will be based on the carbon dioxide regenerative technology Astrium has developed for human spaceflight.

Command and control

The SYCOBS (système de combat pour Barracuda et SSBN) the battle management system is being developed by DCN and Thales.

SYCOBS will also be fitted on the final SSBN submarine, Le Terrible, being built for the French Navy.

"The submarine has four 533mm torpedo tubes and accommodates 18 torpedo and missiles in a mixed load."The combat system integrates active and passive sensors, electronic, optronic and optical sensors and data processing, signal processing of downloaded external tactical data, the launch and control of torpedoes, missiles and countermeasures, external communications and navigation. The communications suite includes satellite and extra-long-frequency acoustic links.

Sagem Défense Sécurité has been contracted to supply the DAS surface detection system which comprises one radar mast and two optronic masts and integrates a passive electromagnetic detection sensor.

Torpedoes

The submarine has four 533mm torpedo tubes with water ram weapon discharge and accommodates 18 torpedo and missiles in a mixed load.

The submarine will carry new heavyweight torpedoes. The Barracuda will be capable of deploying the Black Shark torpedo developed by DCN and WASS (Whitehead Alenia Sistemi Subaquei). Black Shark is a dual-purpose, wire-guided torpedo which is fitted with Astra active / passive acoustic head and a multi-target guidance and control unit incorporating a counter-countermeasures system.

Missiles

The Barracuda's anti-surface missile is an upgraded version of the SM39 Exocet missile which is launched from the torpedo tube. The Exocet, armed with a 165kg warhead, uses inertial cruise guidance and active radar homing in the terminal phase of flight. The missile travels at high subsonic speed, Mach 0.9, to a target range of 50km.

The new naval land-attack cruise missile, Naval Scalp, developed by MBDA, can be fired from Nato-standard 533mm torpedo tubes. Naval Scalp will enter service in 2012. The missile is derived from the Scalp EG and Storm Shadow air-launched missile.

The missile has long-range precision attack capability against targets at ranges up to 1,000km. Scalp has inertial guidance which is continuously updated in flight with digital terrain matching and GPS (global positioning system). An imaging infrared seeker and automatic target recognition provide terminal guidance.

The Scalp Naval version has a longer body than the air-launch version and the wings are extended from within the missile body after launch rather than being externally mounted. The missile is being developed for both submarine torpedo-tube ejection and surface ship vertical launch.

Unmanned underwater vehicles

The Barracuda will be configured to enable a future back-fitting of unmanned underwater vehicles (UUVs), although there are no current operational requirements for the installation of a UUV.

Sonar

"The Barracuda incorporates a range of diving, safety and damage control technologies."Thales Underwater Systems has been selected as prime contractor for the sonar suite. The submarine is fitted with bow sonar wide-aperture flank sonar and towed sonar arrays.

Thales Underwater Systems has placed a contract on the Centre for Submarine Technology, a division of the UK MoD QinetiQ organisation, to carry out a feasibility study on the deployment of reelable thin line towed sonar arrays for the Barracuda class.

Propulsion

The nuclear propulsion system is a new hybrid design providing electric propulsion for economical cruise speeds and turbo-mechanical propulsion for higher speeds. The power plant will be based on technologies developed for the 150MW K15 pressure water reactor installed in the Triomphant Class submarine and the Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier.

Thermodyn of Le Creusot has been selected to provide the two turbo-generators and one propulsion turbine for each vessel.


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The six Barracuda nuclear-powered attack submarines will replace the four Rubis submarines and two Amethyst class submarines in the French Navy.

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The Barracuda will have a displacement of about 4,100t surfaced, an increase of 70% compared to the Amethyste class submarines. Maximum speed will be 25kt and diving depth over 350m.

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Expand Image
The Barracuda missions will include anti-surface and fast deep anti-submarine warfare, land attack using stealthy long-range cruise missiles, surveillance and special operations.

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Expand Image
Barracuda will be armed with the Naval Scalp cruise missile which has long-range precision attack capability against targets at ranges of up to 1,000km.

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The Barracuda's anti-surface missile is an upgraded version of the SM39 Exocet missile, which travels at high subsonic speed, Mach 0.9, to a target range of 50km.

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Expand Image
The Black Shark heavyweight torpedo, developed by DCN and Whitehead Alenia Sistemi Subacquei (WASS).

 

[Super Falcon]

As a cruise-missile submarine, the Oscar was designed primarily to attack NATO aircraft carrier battle groups. To cope with its resource problems, the Russian Navy, in the early 1990s, made an effort at preserving its core submarine force capabilities. The Russian Navy continued to invest in new construction. In the late 1990s it completed several new submarines of the third generation Oscar II. 11 of the larger Oscar II submarines were built between 1985 and 1999 at the Sevmash yard in Severodvinsk. Three have been decommissioned and one, the Kursk, sank. Two Oscar II submarines are active with the Northern Fleet and five with the Pacific Fleet.

DESIGN

Designed to deliver missile blows on groups of ships and coastal installations, the submarine constitutes an updated version of Project 949 with one additional compartment to improve the inner arrangement of the armament and equipment.

The Oscar II is a double-hulled design, and is divided into ten major compartments. The reinforced rounded cover of the sail is intended to break through the ice of the Artic ice cap. The two periscopes, radio-sextant and radar masts are located within the retractable devices area. The HF and UHF radio-masts, radio direction-finder masts and satellite communication and navigation masts are located on the airshaft to feed compressors. The submarine is fitted with a floating antenna buoy to receive radio messages, target designation data and satellite navigation signals at a great depth and under the ice. The bow horizontal hydroplanes are retracted into the hull. The main mechanisms have modular design and two-cascade shock-absorbing system.

As with other Russian submarines, the Oscar features a double hull, comprising an inner pressure hull and an outer hydrodynamic hull. The 3.5m separation between the inner and outer hulls on the Oscar provides significant reserve buoyancy, and improved survivability against conventional torpedoes. These large submarines are said to be slow to dive and manoeuvre, though they are credited with a submerged speed of about 30 knots – sufficient to keep pace with their targets.

The improved Oscar II is about 10m longer than the Oscar I, possibly making room for a quieter propulsion system, and features upgraded electronic systems. The Oscar II is also characterized by a substantially enlarged fin, which should improve underwater manoeuvrability.

OSCAR II WEAPONS SYSTEMS
The submarine is equipped with 24 SS-N-19 Granit (NATO codename "Shipwreck") cruise missiles with a range of 550km. The missile has a length of 10.5m and weighs 6.9t with a warhead weighing 1000kg. Its speed is Mach 1.5. Under the START treaty, nuclear warheads for these missiles have been replaced with high explosive warheads. The missiles, which are launched while the submarine is submerged, are fired from tubes fixed at an angle of approximately 40°. The tubes, arranged in two rows of twelve, are each covered by six hatches on each side of the sail, with each hatch covering a pair of tubes. The launchers are placed between the inner pressure hull and the outer hydrodynamic hull.

The torpedo tubes fire both torpedoes and shorter range anti-ship missiles, and a combination of some two dozen weapons are carried including the SS-N-16 missile. The SS-N-16 has a range of 50km and is powered by a liquid fuel turbojet engine. It can carry either an explosive warhead or a Type 40 torpedo.

In the 1980s the Rubin Design Bureau was responsible for developing a number of third-generation nuclear submarines with cruise missiles, including Projects 949 ("Granit", "Oscar I") and 949A ("Antey", "Oscar II"). The Bureau took the lead in using naval cruise missiles, designing the first cruise missile nuclear submarine – Project 659 ("Echo I"), then Project 675 ("Echo II") and related modifications.

THE KURSK DISASTER
On 12 August 2000, the Oscar II nuclear-powered cruise missile submarine, Kursk (K 141), sank in the Barents Sea, with the loss of all 118 crew. Commissioned in 1994, the Kursk was part of the Russian Northern Fleet. From Norwegian seismological records, it appeared that the submarine was destroyed by two explosions. A subsequent enquiry confirmed that these were caused by the explosion of a Type 65 high test peroxide (HTP) 650mm torpedo, which triggered the explosion in the weapons compartment that caused the vessel to sink. The blast was caused by highly volatile torpedo propellant that leaked and came in contact with kerosene and metal. Vain efforts to rescue any surviving crew were aided by the UK's LR5 submarine rescue vehicle and a Norwegian diving team.

The Kursk was raised in October 2001 and towed to the Russian naval shipyard in Murmansk. The forward weapons compartment was cut out prior to lifting and sections were later lifted in May 2002. Wreckage remaining on the seabed was blown up. The nuclear reactors and Granit cruise missiles were all recovered. The salvage operation was carried out by two Dutch companies, Mammoet Worldwide and Smit International



russia will never sell this to pakistan because of india

 

[Super Falcon]

The Vanguard submarines were built by Vickers Shipbuilding and Engineering Limited (now BAE Systems Marine) at Barrow-in-Furness. They are the largest submarines manufactured in the UK, displacing 15,900t submerged, twice the displacement of the Resolution class Polaris submarines which they replaced.

The first of class, HMS Vanguard, was commissioned in 1993, HMS Victorious in 1995, HMS Vigilant in 1996 and HMS Vengeance in 1999. The Vanguard submarines are based at the Royal Naval Base at Faslane in Scotland.

In February 2002, HMS Vanguard arrived at Devonport Naval Base to begin a two year refit including a new reactor core, which was completed in January 2005.

Following sea trials, which included test launching of Trident II D5 ballistic missiles, the vessel has returned to the fleet. A new dry dock was completed in 2001 for the refit of Vanguard and other RN nuclear-powered submarines. HMS Victorious began refit in January 2005, which was completed in July 2008. Following sea trials she is to return to operational service in 2009.

Missiles

The Vanguard has the capacity to carry 16 Trident missiles. The Trident II or D5 missile (designated UGM-133A) is a strategic submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) manufactured by Lockheed Martin Missiles and Space. The missile carries a number of multiple independently targeted re-entry vehicles (MIRVs), each armed with a yield of 100kt to 120kt.

"The Vanguard Class submarines have the capacity to carry 16 Trident missiles."The Trident II missile can carry up to 12 MIRVs but START I treaty agreements limit this to eight. D5 missiles for the Vanguard Class will carry a maximum of four warheads and, in 1999, it was announced that each vessel would carry a maximum of 48 warheads.

Trident II is a three-stage solid propellant missile with supersonic speed. Weight is 59,000kg. The US Navy gives the range of the D5 as 'greater than 7,360km' but this could be up to 12,000km, depending on the payload mix.

The accuracy of strike on the target is given by the Circle of Equal Probability (CEP) value, which is the radius of the circle within which half the strikes will impact. The Mark 6 guidance system on Trident II is a star-sight aided inertial guidance system, which gives a CEP of 120m. The missile is ejected from the submarine by high-pressure gas. When it reaches the surface the first rocket stage fires automatically. The missile's inertial guidance system calculates flight behaviour and guidance.

After the third rocket motor has separated, the warhead carrier takes a star-sighting to confirm position and manoeuvres to the point at which the warheads can be released to freefall onto the target.

Torpedoes

Vanguard is fitted with four 533mm torpedo tubes and carries the Spearfish torpedo supplied by BAE Systems. Spearfish is a heavyweight wire-guided torpedo with both active and passive homing.

It has a speed of 102km/h (55kt) and range of 54km (30nm) at low speed, 26km (12.5nm) at high speed. Length is 7m (23ft), diameter is 533mm (21in) and weight is 1,850kg (4,075lb), with a 300kg (660lb) warhead.

Electronic warfare

The submarine is fitted with two SSE Mark 10 launchers for deployment of Type 2066 and 2071 decoys. The submarine's electronic support measures (ESM) intercept system is the UAP Mark 3 supplied by Thales Defence.

Sensors

Vanguard is equipped with the Thales Underwater Systems Type 2054 composite sonar system. Type 2054 is a multi-mode multi-frequency suite, which includes the 2046, 2043 and 2082 sonar systems. In September 2006, Lockheed Martin UK was awarded a contract to upgrade the Type 2054 sonar systems.

The upgrade will include open architecture processing using COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) technology, based on the ARCI (Acoustic Rapid COTS Insertion) model that has been in service with the US Navy since 1998. The upgraded system will enter service from 2009.

The Vanguard's towed sonar array is the Type 2046, which provides passive search capability and operates at very low frequency. The Type 2043 is the hull-mounted active and passive mode search sonar and the Type 2082 sonar provides passive intercept and ranging capability.

"Vanguard is fitted with four 533mm torpedo tubes."The submarine is fitted with the CK51 search periscope and the CH91 attack periscope from Thales (formerly Pilkington) Optronics. These periscopes include TV camera and thermal imager as well as optical channel. All above water sensors are combined into self-protection masts in the submarine's fin.

The submarine's navigation radar is the Type 1007 I-band radar supplied by Kelvin Hughes.

Propulsion

The Vanguard class submarine's main nuclear powered propulsion system is based on the second-generation Rolls-Royce PWR 2, which was developed specifically for the Vanguard Class. Current generations of PWR allow submarines to circumnavigate the world about 20 times, whereas the latest development of PWR would allow circumnavigation 40 times without refuelling.

The other main items of machinery are two GEC turbines, and a single shaft with a pump jet propulsor. There are two Paxman diesel alternators, and two turbo generators from WH Allen. The propulsion system provides a maximum submerged speed of 25 knots.


this english submarine is good for short term answer to IN nuke submarine this can fire nuke bullistic missiles

 

[Super Falcon]

The Typhoon ballistic missile nuclear-powered (SSBN) submarines are the largest submarines ever to be built. They were constructed at the Severodvinsk Shipyard, on the White Sea near Archangel.

The first of the six members of the class to be commissioned was TK 208 in 1981, followed by TK 202 in 1983, TK 12 in 1984, TK 13 in 1985, TK 17 in 1987 and TK 20 in 1989. The submarines were stationed with the Russian Northern Fleet at Litsa Guba.

Of the six, only TK 17 and TK 20 are operational. TK 208 was relaunched following refit in 2002 and is being used as a trials ship. TK 12 and TK 13 are decommissioned, waiting to be scrapped.

With assistance from the United States, through the cooperative threat reduction programme, TK 202 has had its nuclear fuel removed by US funded processing facilities and converted into forms suitable for long-term storage or reuse. The UK has also agreed to take part in the dismantling of Russia's decommissioned nuclear submarines.

Design

The Typhoon Class submarine is of multi-hulled design – five inner hulls are situated inside a superstructure of the two parallel main hulls. The superstructure is coated with sound-absorbent tiles. There are 19 compartments including a strengthened module which houses the main control room and electronic equipment compartment which is above the main hulls behind the missile launch tubes.

"The Typhoon Class submarine is of multi-hulled design, with five inner hulls."The submarine's design includes features for travelling under ice and ice-breaking. It has an advanced stern fin with horizontal hydroplane fitted after the screws. The nose horizontal hydroplanes are in the bow section and are retractable into the hull.

The retractable systems include two periscopes (one for the commander and one for general use), radio sextant, radar, radio communications, navigation and direction-finder masts.

They are housed within the sail guard. The sail and sail guard have a reinforced rounded cover for ice-breaking.

Maximum diving depth is 400m. Speed is 12kt when surfaced and 25kt when submerged. Typhoon is capable of spending 120 days at sea.

Missiles

The submarine carries 20 RSM-52 intercontinental, three-stage solid propellant ballistic missiles. The two rows of missile launch tubes are situated in front of the sail between the main hulls.

Each missile consists of ten independently targetable multiple re-entry vehicles (MIRV's), each with a 100kt nuclear warhead. Guidance is inertial with stellar reference updating. Range is 8,300km with accuracy (CEP) of 500m. The missile weighs 84,000kg at launch and was designed by the Makayev Design Bureau. It has the NATO designation of SS-N-20 Sturgeon.

In September and December 2005, the Dmitry Donskoy carried out successful flight tests of a new solid fuel intercontinental ballistic missile, the SS-N-30 Bulava, being developed for the Russian Navy. Bulava is reported to have a range of more than 8,000km and to be able to carry a 550kt nuclear warhead. It is based on the land-launched Topol missile (SS-27). Bulava is to arm the Russian Navy’s new Borey Class submarines from 2008 and may be retrofitted to the Typhoon Class.

Torpedoes

Typhoon has four 630mm torpedo tubes and two 533mm torpedo tubes with a total of 22 anti-submarine missiles and torpedoes of varying types. The torpedo room is in the upper part of the bow between the hulls. The torpedo tubes can also be used to deploy mines.

Systems

The sonar is an active / passive search and attack type with the sonar mounted on the hull under the torpedo room. The submarine is fitted with I/J-band surface target detection radar.

"Typhoon has four 630mm torpedo tubes and two 533mm torpedo tubes with a total of 22 anti-submarine missiles and torpedoes."Countermeaures include ESM (electronic support measures), radar warning system and direction-finding system.

The submarine has both radio and satellite communications systems. It is fitted with two floating antenna buoys to receive radio signals, target designation data and satellite navigation signals, at depth and under ice cover.

Propulsion

The submarine main machinery consists of two nuclear water reactors and two turbogear assemblies comprising steam turbine and gearbox. One reactor and one turbogear assembly are fitted in each main hull.

Each nuclear water reactor produces 190MW. These drive two 50,000hp steam turbines and four 3,200kW turbogenerators. Two 800kW diesel generators serve as standby propulsion units and are coupled to the shaft line. The two propellers are seven-blade, fixed-pitch shrouded. The built-in thrusters on the bow and stern are two telescopic turning screw rudders and are powered by a 750kW motor


china also makes copy of this submarine we can get it from them on lease or simply buy it

 

[Machoman]

how much more pakistan wants to be under debt??


think little bit about your economy as well.

good luck.

Sorry to say but American should do the same thing too.