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PAKISTAN POSITIONING JF-17 FOR GROUND ATTACK ROLE

Regarding yemen, I think we can get involved in bombing missile launch pads which are directly targetting Saudi Arabia. But this act will have it's own repercussions as well. Our navel assets could be targeted by Houtis and we can be a direct target of their missile attacks as well.

I think we are already helping them in intelligence area and we should do more by blocking millitary related supplies from Iran to Houtis via sea route. That way we could ask Saudia Arabia to invest in our navy to increase its capabilities.

Also for JF 17s ground attack role, we need to increase its range and payload capacity if we want to use it beyond our borders. We can get valuable experience in countering sam systems.
 
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Quwa Premium Excerpt
PAKISTAN POSITIONING JF-17 FOR GROUND ATTACK ROLE
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The Turkish defence electronics supplier Aselsan reportedly said that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has 50 ASELPOD targeting pods on order. The PAF ordered its first batch of eight ASELPODs in 2016, with reports of follow-on orders of unknown quantities. In 2018, Aselsan confirmed that it and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) successfully integrated the ASELPOD to the JF-17 Thunder.

This recent news would confirm that the PAF is not only committed to inducting the ASELPOD, but that it will position the JF-17, its mainstay fighter, as a prominent ground attack asset.

Currently, the PAF has equipped the JF-17 to deploy the 60-100 km Range Extension Kit (REK) or Takbir – i.e., a precision-guided bomb (PGB) kit for MK-80-series general purpose bombs (GPB) – and C-802 anti-ship cruising missile (ASCM). A laser-guided bomb (LGB) should follow the integration of the ASELPOD. In March 2019, the PAF also test-fired a new precision-guided munition of an unknown typev.

With the ASELPOD, the JF-17 can hit fixed and moving ground targets. In terms of the latter, it can use the ASELPOD to designate – or “lase” – a target for its LGBs, even if the target is moving. Similarly, the JF-17 could also, potentially, use laser-guided air-to-ground missiles (AGM) – though it is not known if the PAF is seeking an AGM (akin to the AGM-65 Maverick).

The Case for Repurposing Older JF-17s for Ground Attack Missions

On first thought, it would make sense for the PAF to equip the upcoming JF-17 Block 3s with the ASELPOD. The JF-17 Block 3 will reportedly have a greater payload and, potentially, a dedicated hardpoint for special mission equipment, such as targeting pods, reconnaissance pods, and others.

However, the Block 3 will also be a high-tech asset with more qualities suitable for operating in contested air space, such as an integrated electronic warfare (EW) suite, active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, and helmet mounted display and sight (HMD/S) with high off-boresight air-to-air missile.

The Block 3’s main purpose will likely be to shore-up the PAF’s ability to fend-off high-tech threats, such as the Dassault Rafale (albeit, with the need of greater numbers and other supporting assets). However, for ground attack missions, especially in a low-intensity, counterinsurgency (COIN) context, the PAF may rely more heavily on the JF-17 Block 1 and/or Block 2.

There is a limit to the Block 1 and Block-2’s upgrade potential – i.e., they cannot reach true Block 3 levels – and they are, at this stage, older airframes. It could also be the case that the Block 3 has a higher upgrade ceiling or potential due to its structural changes, which the designers likely made to ensure that the fighter could carry an AESA radar, integrated EW suite, and other subsystems from the onset.

Given the PAF’s turn on the JF-17B – i.e., a platform it had intended for only export, and now expanding the PAF’s new JF-17 orders to 76 aircraft – the likely route for additional “high-tech” JF-17s would be to order more of them. In other words, the future mainstay of the PAF fleet (especially if the PAF is unable to acquire another off-the-shelf fighter) would be the JF-17 Block 3/JF-17B and its direct evolutions.

However, moving to the Block 3 does not mean that the Block 1 and Block 2 are any less valuable. To the contrary, they could amount to a significant upgrade for ground attack missions. Having retired the A-5, the PAF lacks a close air support (CAS) asset analogous to the Jaguar. Thus, there may be an opportunity to repurpose older JF-17s for this role, and not only for COIN, but for conventional CAS operations as well.

https://quwa.org/2019/07/01/pakistan-positioning-jf-17-for-ground-attack-role-2/

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A very excellent read. On a side note, something the article didn't mention is that the Block III will also feature bigger and more widened intakes to adjust for new engine and give the jet more speed.

I think it's likely that the Mirages will be replaced by these upgraded Block IIs while for air superiority and to replace F-7P Block IIIs will be inducted.

I am hopeful that with its new design, much more advanced tech, low maintenance cost and price tag, tailoring to fly like a F-16, it will replace the F-16 in international market eventually.

The biggest issue I think for the JF-17 Thunder at the moment is its frame's and body's life. Compared to other jets at same level or above, it is generally half. Not expensive to maintain but hectic to replace and maintain ofcourse overall.

PAF needs to designate more to composite materials as well as PLC management so that it receives the attention and sales globally that it deserves.

in the past the F-86 Sabre was also used for FGA role. so JF17 will also be used for similar role.
 
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I would say it rather Tactical Attack instead of Ground Attack, because JF-17 can also provide Maritime Support.

JF-17 can only perform limited CAS (Close Air Support) due to the fact that CAS requires much slower speed to increase effectiveness.
We need to have a dedicated Counter Terrorism and Close Air Support Aircraft like TAI Hurkus.
 
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Since Alan Warne confirmed that Grifo E is still on table, i believe that JF17B will use Grifo E and these 26 A/Cs will be used for naval role.
@Oscar @messiach
 
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Let's avoid getting into a discussion about who is what in religion. That is not the topic.
 
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I know I will sound like an asshole saying this but Yemen is the headlines right now. And to be clear, I mean helping the Saudi-led Coalition against the terrorist group in Yemen trying to seize control from the legitimate Government. It is my personal opinion we should not let our allies down.



I will edit that bit out and post it in separate comment here. And to be clear, I meant helping the Saudi-led Coalition against the terrorist group in Yemen trying to seize control from the legitimate Government. It is my personal opinion we should not let our allies down.

My own opinion bit edited out to here:

It might be good if Pakistan was to test the new beauties in Yemen, lots of friends to help there and lots of targets to bomb :) Maybe it will also increase export chances and interest, and even increase value of Pakistan's new Aeronautical Industry if it does wonders in Yemen.

Also, usage in popular combat theatre like Yemen will help.



This article is not written by me. Quwa is a global defense analyst media outlet. My opinion is below the lines. Any limitations I have mentioned like frame life are true and sourced.

Quwa is a very good group. Their analysis is sourced, they make good balanced judgements, and most of all they don't overextend or make mountains out of peanuts.
Imagine you a yemini kid and you again a Pakistani jf17 project leader ,
 
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Since Alan Warne confirmed that Grifo E is still on table, i believe that JF17B will use Grifo E and these 26 A/Cs will be used for naval role.
@Oscar @messiach
He also mentioned afterwards that "the main constraint with selecting any Western radar is that the PAF will have trouble in integrating Chinese radar-guided munitions – i.e., the SD-10 beyond-visual-range (BVR) air-to-air missile (AAM) and the C-802 anti-ship missile (AShM) – to the radar. The PAF’s Chinese and Western partners will not share their respective source-codes to enable for such integration."
It mean if PAF choose western radar it should be a whole package of munitions.
 
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It mean if PAF choose western radar it should be a whole package of munitions.

Two standout issues with this in my opinion ...

1) Whether high-end munitions like advanced air-to-air missiles be allowed to be sold to Pakistan, even when Pakistan no longer toes the western line anymore on key issues and the negative influence of the Indian lobby on us getting such munitions?

2) Even if cleared for sale, any guarantee that these munitions will not be a watered down (inferior) versions of the ones that would be available to the Indians?

Bottom line IMHO is that there would be caveats involved and strings attached with anything western at the moment.
 
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He also mentioned afterwards that "the main constraint with selecting any Western radar is that the PAF will have trouble in integrating Chinese radar-guided munitions – i.e., the SD-10 beyond-visual-range (BVR) air-to-air missile (AAM) and the C-802 anti-ship missile (AShM) – to the radar. The PAF’s Chinese and Western partners will not share their respective source-codes to enable for such integration."
It mean if PAF choose western radar it should be a whole package of munitions.
That is why I suspect the Griffo option might be for export customers probably in the middle east.
 
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Since Alan Warne confirmed that Grifo E is still on table, i believe that JF17B will use Grifo E and these 26 A/Cs will be used for naval role.
@Oscar @messiach
Doesn’t necessarily mean they aren’t going to be capable A2A assets as well. The Older block-Is are still capable of engagement with the SD-10 so its possible they may end up being the BARCAP and CAS quarterback if worked with a ReK mounted on a CBU.
 
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Since Alan Warne confirmed that Grifo E is still on table, i believe that JF17B will use Grifo E and these 26 A/Cs will be used for naval role.
@Oscar @messiach
The cost of the Grifo E specifically isn't as much of an issue, the main problem is getting compatible BVRAAM and AShM. The Chinese and Europeans won't share each others' source codes, so if Pakistan gets a radar, it'll need the full package of BVRAAM and AShM too.

That said, I don't think the existing SD-10 and C-802 stocks are a concern. The PAF can upgrade the older JF-17s with the LKF601E can continue using the SD-10 and C-802. The Block 3 could simply get a new line of weapons to match its radar. But with the Grifo-E, the question is, what are the weapons?

If the Grifo-E is on the table, then it means Leonardo has offered a decent weapons suite. The Otomat AShM should be easy enough to secure, the main question is BVRAAM. There are 2 main options I think: Leonardo sourcing them from MBDA, or Pakistan working with Turkey (@cabatli_53). If we're really stretching it, then South Africa.

Doesn’t necessarily mean they aren’t going to be capable A2A assets as well. The Older block-Is are still capable of engagement with the SD-10 so its possible they may end up being the BARCAP and CAS quarterback if worked with a ReK mounted on a CBU.
There are 3 really interesting solutions that the PAF could pair to the JF-17: The LD-10 ARM, the YJ-9E radar-guided AGM, and the GB6 JSOW (albeit with unguided cluster bombs, not SFW). Those 3 are decent, but of course, if AVIC can create something similar to SFW, then it's a big time CAS asset.
 
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The cost of the Grifo E specifically isn't as much of an issue, the main problem is getting compatible BVRAAM and AShM. The Chinese and Europeans won't share each others' source codes, so if Pakistan gets a radar, it'll need the full package of BVRAAM and AShM too.

That said, I don't think the existing SD-10 and C-802 stocks are a concern. The PAF can upgrade the older JF-17s with the LKF601E can continue using the SD-10 and C-802. The Block 3 could simply get a new line of weapons to match its radar. But with the Grifo-E, the question is, what are the weapons?

If the Grifo-E is on the table, then it means Leonardo has offered a decent weapons suite. The Otomat AShM should be easy enough to secure, the main question is BVRAAM. There are 2 main options I think: Leonardo sourcing them from MBDA, or Pakistan working with Turkey (@cabatli_53). If we're really stretching it, then South Africa.


There are 3 really interesting solutions that the PAF could pair to the JF-17: The LD-10 ARM, the YJ-9E radar-guided AGM, and the GB6 JSOW (albeit with unguided cluster bombs, not SFW). Those 3 are decent, but of course, if AVIC can create something similar to SFW, then it's a big time CAS asset.
One weapon class I find interesting is the SPEAR / Brimstone family. The MMW on them makes night/bad weather CAS possible which is a big requirement.
 
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What's specially new in grifo-E, except that they turned to Scots at Edinburgh after thumbs-down from BAE.

Since Alan Warne confirmed that Grifo E is still on table, i believe that JF17B will use Grifo E and these 26 A/Cs will be used for naval role.
@Oscar @messiach
 
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I know I will sound like an asshole saying this but Yemen is the headlines right now. And to be clear, I mean helping the Saudi-led Coalition against the terrorist group in Yemen trying to seize control from the legitimate Government. It is my personal opinion we should not let our allies down.



I will edit that bit out and post it in separate comment here. And to be clear, I meant helping the Saudi-led Coalition against the terrorist group in Yemen trying to seize control from the legitimate Government. It is my personal opinion we should not let our allies down.

My own opinion bit edited out to here:

It might be good if Pakistan was to test the new beauties in Yemen, lots of friends to help there and lots of targets to bomb :) Maybe it will also increase export chances and interest, and even increase value of Pakistan's new Aeronautical Industry if it does wonders in Yemen.

Also, usage in popular combat theatre like Yemen will help.



This article is not written by me. Quwa is a global defense analyst media outlet. My opinion is below the lines. Any limitations I have mentioned like frame life are true and sourced.

Quwa is a very good group. Their analysis is sourced, they make good balanced judgements, and most of all they don't overextend or make mountains out of peanuts.

Hi,

Gen Raheel commited treason against the state of pakistan by not opting for Yemen with pakistani military---.

The west had made a shocking blunder by inviting pakistn's military to take charge at the start of the Yemen crisis---but out of his sheer stupidity---Gen Raheel floundered in making the right decision---thus letting the west escape from the biggest blunder they were about to commit by inviting pakistan's military to that region---.

It would have been a different / possibly more peaceful world---or a region heading towards peace if 150K pak military was in that region---.

There is something very important that has transpired and the consequences of it are terrible to the region---.

For that very reason---the GCC has changed its stance towards Israel---and rightfully so---. It has found out that it is now helpless and has no choice any more---.

" We must all hang together or assuredly we shall all hang separately
Benjamin Franklin---".

Pakistan has been seperated from the herd to be hung seperately---.

@Khafee --- you do understand now why I have been talking about the Yemen crisis and pakistan military in the region---.
 
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