Pakistan ordering 8 Block 60 F16's ?

[Viper0011.]

The problem is again of that of a weak leadership----. Pakistanis need to understand that nothing comes cheap----relationships need to be managed and maintained thru real hard work and perseverance.

If the U S puts the fault on Pakistan---then Pakistan also has 20 things to throw back at the U S-----. Pakistanis just don't knw how to talk back at the U S----they can do it in a pleasant manner and rip a hole----but they are clueless----.

The Pakistani delegation this time, did just that. There was growing animosity inside out of the US congress and inside the lawmakers head, add the Indian lobby's constant bitching and moaning......it was becoming a freak show against Pakistan. Plus, Pakistan doesn't have strong enough lobby to even come close to India. So, what they really needed was, to simmer down the anxiety and do the "sweet talk" of friendship. That is what happened. The Pak PM even met with the senators over many big chairs, he was also the first visiting guest to be taken to the Pentagon as a visiting dignitary. That itself is huge!!!

Have you ever seen Modi or Singh visit the Pentagon? There was a clear purpose behind all this. This was to show case Pakistan's allied status strategically and militarily. While, with India, the US enjoys trillions dollars worth of a trade relation. So totally different type of a situation.

But the bottom line is, the anxiety and tension getting built and turning into fumes since Mushy's times, has finally calmed down. For some reason Pakistani people want aggressive, in your face bullies as their leader, or the "way to talk to". The best results come from a good care salesman who doesn't get aggressive and offended, and still hits the results nicely. Watch how some big trade, textile, investment deals will unfold worth billions. That is what Pakistan needed right now, someone to calm all the angry hot shiit in US lawmakers heads, then setting the stone for trade and investments, and then, set the tone for future military deals, all under a sweet and nice "friends for 70 years anthem". This has become popular in Washington and like by many in power houses. It erased a LOT of tension which was MUCH needed as the Indian lobby's been doing serious propaganda for years now. Good diplomacy means calm people on both ends, and good stuff coming for Pakistan.

I already knew that. Those who have been reading my posts. know that my knowledge of the Blk60/61 is not limited to this forum.

But thanks for stating the obvious.

Then why did you ask the question about if Block 60 was better than the Gripen?? (if you already knew the answer)? Since you know so much about block 60, tell me about how its DRFM differs from all previous ones ?

 

[Indus Falcon]

Then why did you ask the question about if Block 60 was better than the Gripen?? (if you already knew the answer)? Since you know so much about block 60, tell me about how its DRFM differs from all previous ones ?

Grow up kid.

 

[Viper0011.]

The biggest problem Pakistan suffers from is what all the non western/European nations (except China and Japan) suffers from. The inability to completely indigenously produce cutting edge, high tech military hardware and equipment from start to finish. Without any foreign assistance. Somehow, Pakistan needs to learn how to. If they could do that, all our problems would be solved. Worshipping the americans will never help us achieve this. In fact it would be counter productive. This is the blunt truth with regards to Pakistan's relationship with america. No rudeness or offence intended.

Its very clear you won't be successful in the global business world, i'd stay out of it, if i was you. The main point wasn't to assemble a "full product", or "worship the Americans". It was to learn to sell Pakistan nicely (like the Indians do), and get the help you need from the US in military hardware, investments and stuff. So you could climb the growth ladder faster.

In a global trading world, individuals don't win, you got to learn to talk and negotiate with others and give some, and get some!!!

Grow up kid.

You didn't answer the question??? Ooops, busted!! The only kid here is you. Ego doesn't help you learn or grow, it, at times, makes you look like a total fool. Just lessons learned!!

 

[Indus Falcon]

You didn't answer the question??? Ooops, busted!! The only kid here is you. Ego doesn't help you learn or grow, it, at times, makes you look like a total fool. Just lessons learned!!

Keep on ranting. I don't need to prove anything to a nobody like you. Some people on this very forum actually who I am in real life. Go play your silly games with someone else. IF you think someone is actually going to fall for your half baked baits, and give you classified technical details on an internet forum, then you don't know how dumb you really look right now. Secondly, you just showed your mental age. Thanks!!

 

[Viper0011.]

Keep on ranting. I don't need to prove anything to a nobody like you. Some people on this very forum actually who I am in real life. Go play your silly games with someone else. IF you think someone is actually going to fall for your half baked baits, and give you classified technical details on an internet forum, then you don't know how dumb you really look right now. Secondly, you just showed your mental age. Thanks!!

Right. So lets see, you asked two people on whether Gripen was inferior to the Block 60 or not. They gave you a similar answer. I added the two similarities between Gripen and the Block 60. You then got upset and didn't like me responding, and told me "people on here know I have detailed understanding of the Block 60". I then asked you a question on one of Block 60's spec, and asked if you already have "expertise" in Block 60, then why even ask others????

Your response was "grow up kid" lol. Playing personals? Egoistic drama? There is no classified information i am sharing, nor am I that stupid. The question I asked, would've been answered immediate if you know anything about the Block 60, beyond its name !!

By the way, if you are flying a Block 60, do let me know. The US monitors the Block 60 and Pakistani pilots weren't allowed on it, even on the rear seat, due to confidential tech!!

 

[Ghostwhowalks]

Mark my words...an AESA going to appear in Pakistan that will surprise the US, and all the others.

be tat as it may- it will not be a US AESA radar- you will most likely get a Chinese AESA. as regards its capabilities, lets waitfor it to make an appearance first before passing judgement on its capabilities. Also, i hope you guys have an engine upgrade program in place because the current lot of engines on the JF 17 or the Mirages cannot support an AESA radar.

 

[Mughal-Prince]

Bro,

1) The R& D for the Blk 60 was paid by the UAE, so they hold the right, whether to charge royalties or not. Back in 2006 they waived the royalties for the PAF, but the PAF went with the Blk52+. On the other hand, they did not waive the royalties for the MMRCA, and that serioulsy pissed of the Indians.

2) APG-81 just like APG-83 is a Northrop Grumman product. Btw the Blk 60 had APG-80, APG-81 is for the F-35
Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) Radars

3) We could possible be going for the "V" configuration, which might end up as Blk55. Since it still carries a normal ethernet bus vs a fiber optic bus, no built in IRST or sensors, still pod reliant, lower thrust engine i.e. 29,000lb vs 32,500lb.etc etc.

Regards

Thanks Buddy but I hate this mentality of Pakistani Pilot Mafia. I meet them my self and even with an Ace I have worked with in IT the one who has shot down tens of aircrafts of Russia in Afghanistan when the war was about to over but all of those kills were never be reported. I find out the same mentality when I talk to him and I what I have learned that he said buying M2K was like buying Mercedes 500 for a job which can be done with Toyota Corolla :p. I just become speech less these people are very good with their tools but decision making is not their cup of tea. In todays world a few seconds decide the fate of pilots and war outcomes.

 

[That Guy]

Thanks for a sensible analysis

Don't sweat it, this is what I'm here for.

 

[junadqs]

Ok so after reading this morning about the US selling 8 f16's to pakistan i thought i do some more digging and i found this.

According to a Pakistani government official quoted by IHS Jane’s Defense Weekly, “[t]hese new aircraft will be more advanced than the last batch of F-16s [the contract for which was signed in 2006].”

heres the full article
US Will Sell 8 F-16 Fighter Jets to Pakistan
With the sales announcement the White House is trying to boost the U.S.-Pakistan partnership.

View attachment 266394
The United States is preparing to sell eight F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan in order to bolster bilateral ties between the two countries senior American officials told The New York Times.

U.S. President Barack Obama welcomed Pakistan’s Nawaz Sharif to the White House Thursday. As of now, it is unclear whether the weapon sale was discussed in any detail. So far, no public announcement has been made.

However, the United States Congress can still block the sale. Back in March 2015, the U.S. House Committee on Foreign Affairs froze $150 million in foreign military financing and put a hold on the delivery of a number of used U.S. Navy cutter vessels since they were not deemed essential in fighting militants in Pakistan.

“We remain deeply concerned that Pakistan has failed to take meaningful action against key Islamist terrorist groups operating within its territory,” the committee’s chairman noted in a letter sent to the U.S. State Department in March.

In April, the U.S. State Department has approved Pakistan’s request for a possible sale of U.S. military hardware that includes attack helicopters, missiles, and communications equipment at an estimated cost of $952 million, which is also still subject to congressional approval.

Forty F-16 fighters were first introduced to Pakistan’s Air Force (PAF) in the 1980s. However, due to the 1985 Pressler Amendment, the United States cancelled the sale of an additional 28 F-16s in 1990 and imposed sanctions on Pakistan because of its burgeoning nuclear weapons program.

In 2006, a contract was signed between the United States and Pakistan over the purchase of 18 new F-16C/D block 50/52 aircraft with an option for another 18 more. The first three F-16C/Ds were delivered in June 2010 with the rest inducted into the PAF by the end of 2012. That same year, the United States delivered 14 used F-16s to the PAF.

According to a Pakistani government official quoted by IHS Jane’s Defense Weekly, “[t]hese new aircraft will be more advanced than the last batch of F-16s [the contract for which was signed in 2006].”

The PAF currently operates around 70 F-16s. In February 2014, Islamabad announced that the PAF would purchase an entire squadron of 13 F-16 A/Bs from Jordan. Delivery of the new aircraft have begun in April 2015.

The principal concern of U.S. lawmakers is that the F-16s will not be used to battle militants within Pakistan but rather be deployed to deter India. However, an unnamed PAF officer quoted by IHS Jane’s Defense Weekly said back in 2014 that the “F-16A/Bs have been procured from Jordan to take some of the load off our other F-16s, which are undertaking numerous tasks in the ‘law enforcement’ operations. The F-16s are supporting our ongoing law enforcement efforts on our western border. We are not using [attack] helicopters, but are using F-16s to stop the terrorists.”

Between 2002 and 2014, the United States has sold around $5.4 billion worth of military equipment to Pakistan, according to the Congressional Research Service.
US Will Sell 8 F-16 Fighter Jets to Pakistan | The Diplomat
View attachment 266393

new choro old he mil gya to bhare bat ho ge

 

[Khafee]

IF it is Blk 61, then we would need the UAE's approval to waive the royalties, like last time.

On the other hand it could just be a Blk 52+ with APG-83 radar, bringing it upto "V" configuration.

@khafee Any updates?

Sir, I don't think it's Blk 61. We have not received any request for waivers.

Secondly, do ignore those trying to insult / instigate you. I don't understand what such childish behavior will achieve.

@Horus The admin team seriously needs to look into such clueless bullies, it gives this forum a bad name.

 

[syed_yusuf]

it will be bllk52+ Advance as we operate 18 examples out of Jackobad, no difference.

 

[Khafee]

it will be bllk52+ Advance as we operate 18 examples out of Jackobad, no difference.

So what is this "advance," APG 83 radar or something else?

 

[tarrar]

First & the most important is, I hope this purchase will not effect the future deal of SU35 with Russia. If PAF is getting F16's from US, then lets hope they are the latest one, Block 60 & also the 8 are just not enough the number needs to be increased to at least 15-20.

 

[Mughal-Prince]

Sir, I don't think it's Blk 61. We have not received any request for waivers.

Secondly, do ignore those trying to insult / instigate you. I don't understand what such childish behavior will achieve.

@Horus The admin team seriously needs to look into such clueless bullies, it gives this forum a bad name.

Sir what you find offending in that post ???

You probably be right that we may not getting Blk 61 and most probably we will settle with 52+ and that is may be with SABR which is a Northrop Grumman product but still until the details are classified we keep our fingers cross and that may be a Blk 60. But I think as these are 8 in quantity so I don't think so those would be from a nu blk or it would be another nightmare to handle an all new machine although from the same breed but still altogether a new architecture and systems.

In addition in 2006 we already had a waiver for this nu Blk from our UAE brothers but our fighter mafia didn't go for an advance blk because somewhere in their brains Blk 52+ was stuck due to earlier sanctions.

 

[aliyusuf]

The F-16 Block-50/52+ is also called "The Advanced F-16 Block-50/52".
Where the "50" signifies General Electric F-110-GE-129 power plant and the "52" signifies the Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-229 power plant. Both are 29000 lbs thrust class engines where the "PW-229" is 240 lbs lighter and the "GE-129" gives 400 lbs more thrust. Other than that, the "50" and the "52" are same. This Block is equipped with the Northrop Grumman AN/APG-68(V)9 X-Band PD radar.

The F-16 Block-60/61 is operated only by the UAEAF.
The UAE paid for the R&D of this Block and its Northrop Grumman AN/APG-80 AESA radar and also holds some proprietary copyright over the technology. It is powered by the General Electric F110-GE-132 32000 lbs thrust class engine. It is a completely redesigned F-16 that only seems similar to the other blocks of F-16.

The F-16V uses the same power plant as the Block-50/52+ and has the same dimensions and take-off weights. Airframe (apart for some minor differences) and the power plant wise it is a Block-50/52+. The difference is in its electronics and software. It houses a new advanced mission computer, 5th generation EW-Suite and Avionics and the AN/APG-83 Scalable Agile Beam Radar (AESA). It as also available as an upgrade option to the previous blocks. Taiwain is currently upgrading their 140+ F-16A/B to the "V" standard.

Now, we have the F-16 Block-52 with the APG-68(V)9 radar. 18 of them. 12Cs and 6Ds. The contract for buying these were signed in 2006.

According to this article from Janes ...
http://www.janes.com/article/55455/us-prepares-to-sell-eight-newbuild-f-16s-to-pakistan
Quoting a Pakistani Govt. official, these 8 will be more advanced than the ones we contracted to buy in 2006 i.e. the Block-52.

Now make up your own minds. Its all speculation at this point.