Featured Pakistan operationalises Bayraktar TB-2 MALE UCAV for PAF

[LegionnairE]

Not really - Pakistan pioneered in house drones in the 90s before dropping off during the mid-2010s. Proportionally Pakistan needs more UAVs that can take on more and more surveillance roles especially in the large lifeless tracts of Balochistan and the Afpak border.

From operating costs and basic human costs - a drone is much cheaper to operate and can potentially supplement and even replace everything from Recon to attack choppers for the PA.

@Signalian @JamD @PanzerKiel @Bilal Khan (Quwa)
JASDF is fully retiring all of its helo recon and attack fleet in 5-10 years to be replaced completely by UAV/UCAVs

Too soon or this is the reality forward seeing how attack helos and helos in general were mauled over Ukraine?

Unless there's a new technology to defeat MANPADS, the attack helicopter has no future.

The Akinci drone is going to be transformational for Pakistan's counter insurgency operations, which make up the bulk of military operations outside of conventional warfare. The Akinci Drone is going to be the largest drone in the Pakistani inventory, and its able to support a wide range of munitions up to and including bigger munitions like cruise missiles, its endurance is incredibly long, as it can be inflight for more than a day(25 hrs to be exact). and its operational range is 7,500 km, which should cover all of Pakistan as well as all of Afghanistan. Its equipped with satellite navigation so its there isn't a fear of a loss of signal like with smaller drones, and it has a strong electrooptical sensors. In short its the perfect mix of a long endurance UAV along with the payload capacity of something that would normally be carried on an f-16, plus the added benefit of the electrooptical sensors, and the fact that is unmanned so there isn't an issue with Pilot fatigue. When you add on to the fact that flying counter insurgency strike missions on something like the f-16 is far more expensive, it really seems like the perfect platform for counter insurgency. If fielded in numbers is can have a significant impact to capabilities in COIN operations.

You could have an Akinci sit 45,000 ft above Kabul, or even anywhere over Afghanistan given its operational range. Waiting and stalking a target for example Daesh or TTP, watching it closely with the Aselsan CATS and other sensors(some that can also be added additionally on pylons), sit there for hours and hours, and if its decided to hit the target, you can hit the target with something as small as a cirit missile or a MAM-L guided bomb, or something as big as a SOM cruise missile. Its the type of flexibility that very few platforms possess, and certainly not at the same price point.

It's extremely unlikely that Pakistan would be wasting million dollar cruise missiles on Afghan targets lol. TB2 is much better for counter insurgency ops.

 

[Signalian]

Not really - Pakistan pioneered in house drones in the 90s before dropping off during the mid-2010s. Proportionally Pakistan needs more UAVs that can take on more and more surveillance roles especially in the large lifeless tracts of Balochistan and the Afpak border.

From operating costs and basic human costs - a drone is much cheaper to operate and can potentially supplement and even replace everything from Recon to attack choppers for the PA.

@Signalian @JamD @PanzerKiel @Bilal Khan (Quwa)
JASDF is fully retiring all of its helo recon and attack fleet in 5-10 years to be replaced completely by UAV/UCAVs

Too soon or this is the reality forward seeing how attack helos and helos in general were mauled over Ukraine?

Recon, surveillance, targeting and attacking roles go to drones while transport and C4I is retained by helis.

What about creating a airborne relay to extend BLOS operation?

Satcom is there for BLOS Ops.

 

[SQ8]

Recon, surveillance, targeting and attacking roles go to drones while transport and C4I is retained by helis.


Satcom is there for BLOS Ops.

Why not some resupply as well - Not that VTOL UAVs exist today for Pakistan but especially the Northern - frequently resupplied fire bases could do with a UAV sortie rather than AS-350s or Puma’s doing the runs.

 

[Signalian]

Why not some resupply as well - Not that VTOL UAVs exist today for Pakistan but especially the Northern - frequently resupplied fire bases could do with a UAV sortie rather than AS-350s or Puma’s doing the runs.

payload exceeding or equal to heli ?

 

[SQ8]

payload exceeding or equal to heli ?

Equal or lower - operating costs will offset more trips.

Thinking these

WFP has ordered some - and considering range and payload capacity - the Siachen line, remote bases on the western border and so on - resupply could be done at a much lower cost and probably faster.

Keep the outsized cargo to the Mi-17 and otherwise. But usual supply runs or even special request drop offs could be done.

 

[Signalian]

Equal or lower - operating costs will offset more trips.

Thinking these

WFP has ordered some - and considering range and payload capacity - the Siachen line, remote bases on the western border and so on - resupply could be done at a much lower cost and probably faster.

Keep the outsized cargo to the Mi-17 and otherwise. But usual supply runs or even special request drop offs could be done.

Factors are high altitude, bad weather, landing spots, type of cargo as well as communication systems and sensors for combating bad weather conditions and seamless communication with in peaks. Closer to LOC can lead to risk of getting shot down. Medicines, parcels, food seem to be the best bet.

 

[SQ8]

Factors are high altitude, bad weather, landing spots, type of cargo as well as communication systems and sensors for combating bad weather conditions and seamless communication with in peaks. Closer to LOC can lead to risk of getting shot down. Medicines, parcels, food seem to be the best bet.

High Altitude requires the right engine and aerodynamic performance so that is a technical challenge shared with any manned aircraft.

Bad weather sensors can be added as well, UAVs have made transatlantic flights in severe conditions.

But that getting shot down is the aspect where it comes in useful. At most you lose the aircraft and payload - not human assets.
More importantly, unlike manned vehicles which have to take into consideration human comfort and protection - there isn’t any here. So oddball designs like the one in the picture can be put together that combine speed and VTOL performance.

Food, parcels, medicines and a lot more could still be sent to the front. Depending upon costs a AS.350 cost to PA was likely around the $1.4-1.8 million mark depending on fit with operating costs around $1200hr. Something like this might end up in the $500 price range but with operating costs in the $300-400 or less range.

 

[Signalian]

High Altitude requires the right engine and aerodynamic performance so that is a technical challenge shared with any manned aircraft.

Bad weather sensors can be added as well, UAVs have made transatlantic flights in severe conditions.

But that getting shot down is the aspect where it comes in useful. At most you lose the aircraft and payload - not human assets.
More importantly, unlike manned vehicles which have to take into consideration human comfort and protection - there isn’t any here. So oddball designs like the one in the picture can be put together that combine speed and VTOL performance.

Food, parcels, medicines and a lot more could still be sent to the front. Depending upon costs a AS.350 cost to PA was likely around the $1.4-1.8 million mark depending on fit with operating costs around $1200hr. Something like this might end up in the $500 price range but with operating costs in the $300-400 or less range.

I think I saw Link-17 used as ADL during a missile strike on an Indian post a few year back. If a drone is pushed in service for this purpose that we are discussing then it will most probably be using Link-17 and SatCom. Secondly, to compensate for payload they could send multiple sorties or multiple drones in single sortie. If the drone is just dropping the supplies, it doesn't need to land, it has to maybe hover and return. This would decide if flight path, hovering and returning is automated or manual for guiding and handling the drone. Medevac would require a heli.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

The Akinci drone is going to be transformational for Pakistan's counter insurgency operations, which make up the bulk of military operations outside of conventional warfare. The Akinci Drone is going to be the largest drone in the Pakistani inventory, and its able to support a wide range of munitions up to and including bigger munitions like cruise missiles, its endurance is incredibly long, as it can be inflight for more than a day(25 hrs to be exact). and its operational range is 7,500 km, which should cover all of Pakistan as well as all of Afghanistan. Its equipped with satellite navigation so its there isn't a fear of a loss of signal like with smaller drones, and it has a strong electrooptical sensors. In short its the perfect mix of a long endurance UAV along with the payload capacity of something that would normally be carried on an f-16, plus the added benefit of the electrooptical sensors, and the fact that is unmanned so there isn't an issue with Pilot fatigue. When you add on to the fact that flying counter insurgency strike missions on something like the f-16 is far more expensive, it really seems like the perfect platform for counter insurgency. If fielded in numbers is can have a significant impact to capabilities in COIN operations.

You could have an Akinci sit 45,000 ft above Kabul, or even anywhere over Afghanistan given its operational range. Waiting and stalking a target for example Daesh or TTP, watching it closely with the Aselsan CATS and other sensors(some that can also be added additionally on pylons), sit there for hours and hours, and if its decided to hit the target, you can hit the target with something as small as a cirit missile or a MAM-L guided bomb, or something as big as a SOM cruise missile. Its the type of flexibility that very few platforms possess, and certainly not at the same price point.

+ they can jam all comms.

 

[SQ8]

I think I saw Link-17 used as ADL during a missile strike on an Indian post a few year back. If a drone is pushed in service for this purpose that we are discussing then it will most probably be using Link-17 and SatCom. Secondly, to compensate for payload they could send multiple sorties or multiple drones in single sortie. If the drone is just dropping the supplies, it doesn't need to land, it has to maybe hover and return. This would decide if flight path, hovering and returning is automated or manual for guiding and handling the drone. Medevac would require a heli.

Exactly - given the size foot print of the drone it can simply hover(or lower a pod) and let the troops extract stuff and then get out again at high speed.

In the current budget environment and the massive low level threats emerging soon for PA aviation - it would be a win.

 

[Super Falcon]

Bayraktar TB 2 drones will be used with shahpar for light armes specs mostly used for target identification for army and airforce for combination of attacks like Moskova destroyed in Crimea

But Akinci and other upcoming drones will be used for heavy weight operations

US sanction and not supplying weapons actually be like blessing and disguise for Iran and turkey

 

[wayforday]

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