Pakistan on e-voting machines for Election

[Zibago]

Oh sorry, I've questioned progress, I must be jahil.

I don't need to know how they work. If it is electronic it can be hacked. Intelligence agencies throughout the world have devoted vast resources for the effort.

Both internal and external forces can control the results.

Individual units arent connected to a network

E-voting machines should be programmed in a way in which PTI wins majority vote in all assemblies

I would see that as an absolute win

 

[Darth Vader]

Great step following issues which i can see
1 how secure is the infrastructure ?
Devices like these can be easily hacked by professionals.
2 In regards to verification unless it verfies a single person both with CNIC and thumbprint , people can still cast multiple votes

 

[Falconless]

Make the machine print your vote out which is put in a normal ballot box, and if there’s a discrepancy between the two numbers then you know if your election was rigged or not.

 

[Imad.Khan]

Even if it’s air-gapped, it can be hacked.

Researchers have devised numerous ways to extract data from computer systems by developing covert channels. These channels fall into four general groups:

• Electromagnetic (the earliest attack vector)
• Acoustic (beyond speakers, modulated fan and disk drive noise can be used)
• Thermal (very low speeds possible)
• Optical (a hot area, where speeds up to 4k bps have been demonstrated)

Can you hack a TV made in the 90s?
Can you hack a 86 corolla?
Can you hack a rotary dial phone that was still being used in the 80s & 90s?

The answer is NO. why because you need a set of things for them to be hacked

1. Any sort of network connectivity, i.e. wifi, or cabled
2. Software that is able to perform some sort of algorithmic calculations/manipulations
3. A device that can emit electromagnetic pulses.

Let me explain how an EVM works ( not this particular EVM but in general )

there are 3 main components

1. Transmitter: An analog device where the voter selects his candidate
2. Counter: where the votes are counted
3. Display: Either a screen or a printer that is used to display the final count

Once a voter presses a button for his/her candidate of choice, an electrical circuit is completed with the counter. The counter counts how many times the circuit was completed and the display will show the number. Its extremely basic physics.

Now these EVM have no network connectivity, it does not have any ports to plug any usb/cat5 cables, it doesn't need any software. Its an electrical device and not an electronic device. Electrical circuits have no decision making capability. So basically an EVM is a glorified counter.

 

[jupiter2007]

Can you hack a TV made in the 90s?
Can you hack a 86 corolla?
Can you hack a rotary dial phone that was still being used in the 80s & 90s?

The answer is NO. why because you need a set of things for them to be hacked

1. Any sort of network connectivity, i.e. wifi, or cabled
2. Software that is able to perform some sort of algorithmic calculations/manipulations
3. A device that can emit electromagnetic pulses.

Let me explain how an EVM works ( not this particular EVM but in general )

there are 3 main components

1. Transmitter: An analog device where the voter selects his candidate
2. Counter: where the votes are counted
3. Display: Either a screen or a printer that is used to display the final count

Once a voter presses a button for his/her candidate of choice, an electrical circuit is completed with the counter. The counter counts how many times the circuit was completed and the display will show the number. Its extremely basic physics.

Now these EVM have no network connectivity, it does not have any ports to plug any usb/cat5 cables, it doesn't need any software. Its an electrical device and not an electronic device. Electrical circuits have no decision making capability. So basically an EVM is a glorified counter.

If it’s smillar to the one in use in India then it can be easily hacked.

 

[Dark1]

To hack anything you need them to have some sort of network connectivity. How will you hack a standalone device?

Depends totally on the firmware in a standalone MB.
A combination of button presses can result in the required results.
A terminal (connection) for downloading the votes cast has to be present. The interface can be manipulated.
Voting is normally in the 60 % range in most democracies. Unscrupulous officials can easily cast additional votes to increase the vote count.

Bottom line is that if the intention is wrong, anything is possible.

 

[Imad.Khan]

If it’s smillar to the one in use in India then it can be easily hacked.

I am not aware of the workings of the Indian EVM, but what i do know is that India has been conducting elections on the EVM since 1998. So they must be happy with it or else they would have scrapped it by now.

Maybe you know more about the Indian EVM, please elaborate why you think it can easily be hacked?

 

[Dark1]

I am not aware of the workings of the Indian EVM, but what i do know is that India has been conducting elections on the EVM since 1998. So they must be happy with it or else they would have scrapped it by now.

Maybe you know more about the Indian EVM, please elaborate why you think it can easily be hacked?

Cant be easily hacked without physical access by bad actors.
All comes down to the election commission officials.
Some studies were done and all required long physical access to each evm . But in India's developed electoral system , the evms are physically guarded by all political parties.
The election commission even invited independent experts to try and manipulate the machines in a room but all failed.
A few cases of politicians like kejriwal and mamta banerjee crying foul against the evms BEFORE the elections and keeping mum after getting resounding wins. Congress normally avoids these shenanigans.

 

[Mrc]

They can be hacked if they are online. But what if they are not?

 

[S A L M A N.]

Now these EVM have no network connectivity, it does not have any ports to plug any usb/cat5 cables, it doesn't need any software. Its an electrical device and not an electronic device. Electrical circuits have no decision making capability. So basically an EVM is a glorified counter.

Wrong.

It IS an electronic device, otherwise how could you possibly hope to accomplish voter verification, machine locking and unlocking, post-poll counting, printing, status display, etc etc.

When the intent is there, anything can be done. However, it would be multiple orders of magnitude difficult to manipulate the count in EVMs as compared to paper ballots. Pakistani political parties, specially the PMLN, have an old tradition of vote fraud and manipulation. However, they are not decidedly very high tech in their methods. The overall technological backwardness of Pakistan as far as electronics and software is concerned will be the biggest advantage considering that the EVM uses sufficiently advanced technology.

The primary factors to be considered during design, manufacturing and deployment would be to ensure rugged/fault-tolerant software, rugged physical construction, adequate measures to ensure that physical tampering of the EVM is not possible, minimum number of external interfaces (e.g. switches and ports), customized connectors and ports for power, etc.

The use of physical protective measures e.g. any tampering of the machine (trying to disassemble it, pressing different combinations of buttons, etc) must result in permanent lockout/disabling of the unit. Also, Kensington locks can be used to prevent the devices from being moved from the designated spaces at the polling stations.

The possibilities to make electronic voting more secure and tamper proof are endless. One can only hope that the officials at MoST/NIE/NUST/COMSATS responsible for this project have thought through these details.

The final success of the EVMs is only possible if ECP and other election officials are properly trained and educated in the use of these machines.

 

[Big_bud]

People keep forgetting these machines are supposed to be working in conjunction with manual votes. People first vote on machine, then cast their vote in the ballot paper.

1.You have immediate result of elections.
2. You have paper trail
3. You have electronic trail
4. Voter machines are not connected to any local network or internet, hence can't be hacked

This process would definitely improve transparency in the voting process.

5. Patwari patwari e rahen gy, krlou jo krna hai!

 

[Zee-shaun]

EVM demonstration by anchor Imran Riaz Khan

 

[rizhussain44]

EVM demonstration by anchor Imran Riaz Khan

I just watched it, so this means the paper trail will still be there. In addition to that the result will be recorded and compiled electronically. As soon as the voting ends these electronically recorded votes can give out the final result in a minute, which can then be matched with the paper votes after they have been counted.

This will also eliminate the complaint that “we were winning up until the evening but overnight the result got changed”.