Pakistan of 1960s When Ayub Met JFK

[Sugarcane]

No, the politicians are no angels, but neither is the Army, despite any tall claims made by either one of them. They are all lies, proven time and again.

The only thing that will affect the defense budget is the economy.

If both are same than why you are always pointing your guns on Army and project politicians as innocents.

 

[rockstar08]

its really good to see the warm welcome given by American President and so as Public to Pakistani President . I wish things will be like before and Again American make the relationship between US-Pak on mutual interest and understanding .. Give Respect , Take respect ...
but sadly both countries get Corrupt and Evil leaderships ..so as peoples become puppets of media and politicians

 

[kushan]

Ayub khan is strongely hated by mohajir/urdu community.

 

[VCheng]

If both are same than why you are always pointing your guns on Army and project politicians as innocents.

Where have I spared anybody who deserves the blame? I point out the truth, always, regardless of who it is.

 

[airmarshal]

If dictatorships were so good for governance and prosperity, why did the General fail to carry on? Why did each Martial Law come crashing down in ignominy, leaving the nation to deal with the disastrous consequences, leaving the country's respect in tatters?

Those are aftershocks of military rule and its partly because military rulers dont do long term reforms.

I insist on my original point that whenever there was a military rule, there was better governance and economy grew. Military rule brought real prosperity in South Korea and it helped become a leading industrialized nation.

Its not a question of for or against military rule. In Pakistan context, democracy is not working because the elections, the engine that produces democracy is flawed, is controlled by a political mafia and the parties are nothing but a bunch of crooks and family empires.

In Musharraf's time, the economy grew at around 7%. I was in Pakistan for a year and you could see country lifting up. Although I m a strong critic of Musharraf on many of his policies made under fear, I give him credit for this. Now compare this with the 'democratic' period of Pakistan after that. Only corruption scandals are bigger than anything else.

 

[nForce]

I think we need to look at it from a different angle, there are two points to be noted here. One Ayub and his family were ethnic pushtuns, so sari was never a cultural dress for them. Secondly, since Bengalis were the majority of Pakistanis back then, thus you would see a lot of "Pakistanis" wearing saris, after 1971, you would notice alot fewer sights of saris, again cuz in West Pakistan it was never a cultural dress.

Ohh cmon now..That is a bit too unrealistic.People normally choose a dress in which they are comfortable in, not because of national politics.

As for Ayub Khan's daughter, I think I'll go ahead with style-statement, or certain bit of personal liking which made her choose a sari.

 

[MadDog]

Ohh cmon now..That is a bit too unrealistic.People normally choose a dress in which they are comfortable in, not because of national politics.

As for Ayub Khan's daughter, I think I'll go ahead with style-statement, or certain bit of personal liking which made her choose a sari.

Buddy you have no idea how politics can change things, I am from Pak..I can tell you this...before 1973 Pakistan was secular, and as said Bengalis were the majority so saris were really common....post 73, you see Bhutto making it Islamic Republic and then Zia's period came when even the news anchors and actresses had to partially cover their head...so things changed...but it Pakistani society became much more open minded with Musharaf's enlighten moderation and now you can see fashion weeks in Lahore, Islamabad and Karachi

 

[SrNair]

JFK was one of the best American president in its history.

 

[nForce]

Buddy you have no idea how politics can change things, I am from Pak..I can tell you this...before 1973 Pakistan was secular, and as said Bengalis were the majority so saris were really common....post 73, you see Bhutto making it Islamic Republic and then Zia's period came when even the news anchors and actresses had to partially cover their head...so things changed...but it Pakistani society became much more open minded with Musharaf's enlighten moderation and now you can see fashion weeks in Lahore, Islamabad and Karachi

That's what my notion is.I have said that earlier in this thread..

A dynamic personality indeed, something expected from Sandhurst-trained soldier who went on to become a General and finally the head of the state.His actions brought great prosperity to Pakistan.

My opinion is, his outlook was more liberal in comparison to what followed next.You will notice that the General's daughter had chosen to wear a Saree in almost all the occasions, which is, though a traditional dress in the subcontinent but its use has gradually faded in Pakistan up to a great extent.Probably a Saree has been identified more as a Hindu dress in the later years.

 

[Magnum Opus]

I don't think this is theory, but it is a well proven history of the US and how it was taken over from within:

Even more information can be seen via google of these top terms:

The real history matters more than the parroting of those that corrupted the truth:

HARRY S. TRUMAN
War Criminal
WAR CRIMINAL
MASS MURDERS

I am Become Death, Destroyer of Worlds

"It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were almost defeated and ready to surrender...in being the first to use it, we...adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages."
---Fleet Admiral William D. Leahy,
Chair of the Joint Chiefs

And for more on the James Forrestal Catholic involvement we have an excellent first hand reference:

Google these terms: How We Bungled the Japanese Surrender
Look Magazine, June 6, 1950
By Rear Admiral Ellis M. Zacharias, USN (Ret.)
==========

More of the Catholic Vs Masons deals for Japan, and Catholic Ideals Vs Mason Ideals post-war:

The Pope almost negotiated Japan's Surrender, and FDR was somewhat on board. But, no way were the English or Truman's Imperial Masons going to go along with Pope leading the peace plans. More reasons to target Catholic operations in Japan.

James Forrestal was a Catholic and was Sec of Navy under FDR. He was also a good friend of JFK. The DOE HQ building in DC is named for Forrestal.

FDR is well known to have gotten Catholic Joe Kennedy to battle the English Banker Masons that caused the stock market crash issues, and FDR often sought to have Catholic control Imperialism interests.

James Forrestal also encounters the Mason Temple makers when he became Sec. of Defense. Forrestal opposed Israel's creation. Harry "Solomon" Truman saw an occasion for a Temple as a Mason. Forrestal wanted Integration of the troops, which the Masons hated.

The Mason Harry S. Truman was not the quality of Mason that FDR was in holding back England's Imperialism interests. Harry Truman rubber stamped all the corrupt Mason wants for Imperialism.

So, via FDR the Catholic leadership had the early way to end the Japan war, and because Forrestal was a Catholic competing in a Mason Truman dominated White House control, he did not fare well. Much as to why JFK did not fare well going against Masons Dulles, Hoover, Murchison, and Banister. There we find Catholics in David Ferry and LHO, both get murdered.

Thus, two principle Japan Cities with the largest number of Catholics were Nuked, and Forrestal noticed issues of Masons battling Catholic idea and leadership.

Most consider that Forrestal was murdered in the same manner that Meyer Lansky killed many NAZIs, which was pushing them out windows.

So lets see how some complaign this time as more anti-Catholic news connected with Masons leaks out.. And there is more substance for the symbolism connected the the Catholic Statue that faces a Mason managed nuclear weapons plant.

The same Mason secrecy that covers up these Catholic Vs Mason issues in the take over of the US from within, are the same sinister elements involved in allowing huge number of workers to be exposed to toxic chemicals (like Hydrogen Fluoride), toxic metals (Mercury, Uranium), and various sources of radiation that did slow long term harm to their health and longevity.

Too many times, the Mason management in Oak Ridge have suppressed the real truths and history, which has not been good for Americans in Oak Ridge or those of the country as a whole. This because many Masons have loyalty to the English based Imperialism games to which the Scottish Rite was designed to indoctrinate them into.

As such the sinister side of Masons backing Churchill's gang killed FDR, went on to kill FDR's agent Forrestal, went on to attempt to control all issues of Communism via Mason Murchison in Texas, and wound up going after JFK as a Communist, then MLK, then RFK. Such is the real story of how the US has been taken from within and its citizens being used and abused by those that keep these sinister secrets called Masons.

Masons lost the values of the Founding Fathers and those that FDR wanted to install, and replaced those values with wants of money and power rather than Freedom and Independence for Americans.

Masons claim they want to build better men, but all they accomplished in Oak Ridge was management by deceit and treachery that harmed workers and the town. On the larger scale it is the take over of the US from within that values more English Imperialism than the Declaration of Independence values of Freedom and Independence from corrupted religions and Imperialism tyranny,

The eternal banter on the JFK hit continues and the books published pushing 600. Some have fragments of truth, but most all miss their marks significantly and mislead the public.

The very Roots for the JFK are the Manhattan Project, which is why we saw in Oak Ridge National Lab's Masonic Raymond W. Trucker, Sr. calling Jack Ruby (Jewish Jacob Rubenstein of the Marcello Mafia) to turn the guns on JFK as a Communist, as the covert renegade kill Castro plan failed. The New Orleans anti-Castro plan involved nutty former Catholic David Ferrie, who was sort of a half way man connected with the Marcello Mafia and the quasi-Military CiA efforts run out of the New Orleans CIA and FBI connected Mason Guy Banister to build a Monkey virus poison. Ferrie ended up dead for talking too much to Jim Garrison about what really happened.

The Manhattan Project started design work in New York City and things like Uranium Ore from Gabon were stored away in various buildings and warehouses in NYC. The Army made a deal with the NYC Mafia to protect this critical operation from any German spies. The Army's plan was totally separate from the ONI's deal on shipping sabotage problems. The Army's operation was HQ'd in Plainfield, NJ was was run by the Army's Ralph M. Lockhart. The Army set up some immunity for the Mafia in return for killing suspected German spies they saw hanging around the wrong buildings in NYC. They killed hundreds that were just in the wrong place, and most all tossed in the River and unsolved.

Lots of folks connected with these extreme security issues of the Manhattan Project knew the Army had a deal with the Mafia to kill people in the US. The Castro deal in Miami and New Orleans was much the same thing with people like Lee Harvey Oswald doing some public events to locate Castro and Communism backers in these areas. They would soon be used or eliminated. Oswald was doing this via the Ex-FBI Chicago Station Chief Mason named Guy Banister in New Orleans. LHO got into an extremist ugly bunch in New Orleans that really wanted to eliminate Castro, and they were doing a plan hatched up by a Dr. Alton Oscher, that was all about using radiation and a mutated SV-40 Monkey Virus to give Castro Lung Cancer covertly.

So, we see that Lee Oswald came up to Oak Ridge in Summer 1963, where the information on radiation and health were kept and got training in what levels of radiation was needed to reduce the human body resistance for SV-40 virus infections, and how to avoid any antibiotics for implementation of such a plan to have Castro killed by this advanced poison method to keep the Russian's from not suspecting Castro was poisoned, but just died from too many Cigars.

The history for Ralph M. Lockhart is essential to learn how the hate built against JFK, from the military point of views. The Army's Lockhart joined the Army in the times of the Indian Wars and the Mexican Border wars in Arizona. Those folks were sent to Kansas and Missouri for the build up for WWI artillery and here the Ralph M. Lockhart of Harry Truman started crossing paths. It goes on down to Lockhart getting a big job to run the Mafia killers in NYC, as Truman is still a Senator and looking for war overspending and Truman going to go after huge expenses of the black project Manhattan Project. It was Truman's buddy Ralph M. Lockhart that the Army dispatched to tell Truman this was a solid but top secret project and to totally back off even talking about it.

Masonic Truman managed to get on the FDR ticket and became VP for the US, and soon enough the President as FDR passed. FDR kept Truman totally shut out of any Manhattan Project details and when Truman got to be president he was told more by Lockhart and by Stimson. Masonic Truman was easily influenced by Imperialism's designs, as the Freedom and Independence designs of Masonic FDR were tossed out the window. This was a huge Coup against the US to back UK Imperialism, as Mason FDR planned to totally suppress the UK Colonials in the world after WWII. This did severe and lasting harm to the US, as it let to the US being taken over from within and the factors JFK was eliminating.

Harry Truman had this idea of having every Federal Agency run by top level Masons, this is similar to why the Y-12 plant has all Masonic management. So, the CIA was run by Mason Dulles, the FBI by Masonic Hoover, and even the JCS being run with lots of Masons. Doing that made it very easy for Imperialism / UK backed Masons to take over the US from within. JFK was very much eliminating them and calling them out in the Press Club's Secret Society Speech.

The Bomb Project led to the Cold War against the US Ally Russia, and the dropping of the Atomic Bombs on Japan to become the new Nuclear domination for world diplomacy.

So, move up to the times of the nuclear bombs being attached to rockets due to the captured Germans from WWII, and you find the Army's Ralph M. Lockhart is at Florida's Patrick AFB in 1958 and right at the time for the Jupiter Missile development that had the first nuclear warheads attached that were installed in Turkey. Also, include the knowledge that Patrick AFB was the home for the USAEC's military's monitoring for atomic tests in Russia via connections with Turkey, which is how the Jupiter Missiles came to be aimed at Russia from Turkey.

This soon blew up in the Military's face when Russia's Khrushchev learned of this and started Russia's own back door to the US rockets aimed at the US from Cuba. Then Catholic JFK was stuck right in the middle of a building hot nuclear war, and the Russians had loaded up Cuba was tactical nukes and also putting in long range missiles to counter the US game in Turkey. Then we find that the Army's now Colonel Ralph M. Lockhart from the Reserves and still connected with Patrick AFB gets activated for the Cuban Missile Crisis, and JFK is trying to walk a fine line with backing off Russia, cutting back channel deals with Khrushchev, while the US Military is calling JFK a Communist for not going full hot against the Russians in a Nuclear War that JCS's Curtis LeMay and some of the other crazy mad dogs on the JFK JCS were tying to make happen.

JFK narrowly avoided a Hot Nuke War due to the Crisis. A Russian North Sea sub almost fired a nuclear torpedo at US Ships trying for force the Russian Sub to surface, via near miss Depth Charges. Only one Russian Sub Commander's vote averted most of the US East Coast being missing. Thereby JFK's JCS considered JFK was a Communist, a Catholic, and a coward. Which made it easy to turn the guns on Catholic JFK as the Oak Ridge and New Orleans involved Masonic plot to kill Castro covertly fell apart. Persons like Jack Ruby had knowledge of all these methods and the "connections", plus he had direct ties to Masonic and Jewish backing LBJ and a nice high level security clearance.

The plot to kill JFK came directly from the same methods used to kill spies and Communists in NYC and for the Manhattan Project. All it took to turn the guns for a Mafia hit on JFK was for ORNL Mason Raymond W. Tucker,Sr. to call up Dallas' Jack Rubenstein (Who really hated JFK for keeping Israel from Nuclear Weapons) and tell here is how to get rid of the JFK problems for the Mafia, the corrupt elements in the Castro Cancer hit attempt, for the FBI / JCS, and for LBJ. Oak Ridge had complete access to all CIA files, had a lot of Imperialist Catholic hating Masons in the plants management, and a lot of workers wanting a nuclear build up for making tons of weapons employment that became the nuclear insanity for MAD.

Lee Oswald knew too much and he was trying to stop all the JFK hit attempts, and they knew he was routing them out, and that LHO had to die with JFK, which became Marcello Mafia's Jack Ruby's duty when things did not go down as planned. If all the Military Plans of using the Mafia around Ports for the Manhattan Project and even for Anti-Castro deals, all their heads would be chopped off via public outrage, not to mention war crimes issues. imho

Jack Ruby though all his Mafia and Mil connections would get him cut loose, and with some frustration he give up a lot of knowledge to Ace NYC reporter Dorothy Killgallen, which was right in the middle of the NYC Mafia that ended her life and grabbed all the notes on what Jack Ruby gave up to her. Dorothy was a proper nice Catholic Lady trying to do what the press is supposed to do, which was tell the truth on the JFK hit. She was murdered to suppress the truth on Catholic JFK.

So, with JFK gone, it became the Masonic Duty of LBJ to make a bigger frame up against LHO, as the only crazy person, and LBJ assigned Masonic Warren to run the cover up report with a number of other corrupt Masons helping hide the massive crimes. Corrupt Texas Mason claimed the frame up was needed to keep Russia and Cuba from making war on the US, but real deal is the Citizens would find how corrupt their Govt had become, and all the crook's heads would get the guillotine.

That is the actual magnitude of those wanting JFK dead.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

The eternal banter on the JFK hit continues and the books published pushing 600. Some have fragments of truth, but most all miss their marks significantly and mislead the public.

The very Roots for the JFK are the Manhattan Project, which is why we saw in Oak Ridge National Lab's Masonic Raymond W. Trucker, Sr. calling Jack Ruby (Jewish Jacob Rubenstein of the Marcello Mafia) to turn the guns on JFK as a Communist, as the covert renegade kill Castro plan failed. The New Orleans anti-Castro plan involved nutty former Catholic David Ferrie, who was sort of a half way man connected with the Marcello Mafia and the quasi-Military CiA efforts run out of the New Orleans CIA and FBI connected Mason Guy Banister to build a Monkey virus poison. Ferrie ended up dead for talking too much to Jim Garrison about what really happened.

The Manhattan Project started design work in New York City and things like Uranium Ore from Gabon were stored away in various buildings and warehouses in NYC. The Army made a deal with the NYC Mafia to protect this critical operation from any German spies. The Army's plan was totally separate from the ONI's deal on shipping sabotage problems. The Army's operation was HQ'd in Plainfield, NJ was was run by the Army's Ralph M. Lockhart. The Army set up some immunity for the Mafia in return for killing suspected German spies they saw hanging around the wrong buildings in NYC. They killed hundreds that were just in the wrong place, and most all tossed in the River and unsolved.

Lots of folks connected with these extreme security issues of the Manhattan Project knew the Army had a deal with the Mafia to kill people in the US. The Castro deal in Miami and New Orleans was much the same thing with people like Lee Harvey Oswald doing some public events to locate Castro and Communism backers in these areas. They would soon be used or eliminated. Oswald was doing this via the Ex-FBI Chicago Station Chief Mason named Guy Banister in New Orleans. LHO got into an extremist ugly bunch in New Orleans that really wanted to eliminate Castro, and they were doing a plan hatched up by a Dr. Alton Oscher, that was all about using radiation and a mutated SV-40 Monkey Virus to give Castro Lung Cancer covertly.

So, we see that Lee Oswald came up to Oak Ridge in Summer 1963, where the information on radiation and health were kept and got training in what levels of radiation was needed to reduce the human body resistance for SV-40 virus infections, and how to avoid any antibiotics for implementation of such a plan to have Castro killed by this advanced poison method to keep the Russian's from not suspecting Castro was poisoned, but just died from too many Cigars.

The history for Ralph M. Lockhart is essential to learn how the hate built against JFK, from the military point of views. The Army's Lockhart joined the Army in the times of the Indian Wars and the Mexican Border wars in Arizona. Those folks were sent to Kansas and Missouri for the build up for WWI artillery and here the Ralph M. Lockhart of Harry Truman started crossing paths. It goes on down to Lockhart getting a big job to run the Mafia killers in NYC, as Truman is still a Senator and looking for war overspending and Truman going to go after huge expenses of the black project Manhattan Project. It was Truman's buddy Ralph M. Lockhart that the Army dispatched to tell Truman this was a solid but top secret project and to totally back off even talking about it.

Masonic Truman managed to get on the FDR ticket and became VP for the US, and soon enough the President as FDR passed. FDR kept Truman totally shut out of any Manhattan Project details and when Truman got to be president he was told more by Lockhart and by Stimson. Masonic Truman was easily influenced by Imperialism's designs, as the Freedom and Independence designs of Masonic FDR were tossed out the window. This was a huge Coup against the US to back UK Imperialism, as Mason FDR planned to totally suppress the UK Colonials in the world after WWII. This did severe and lasting harm to the US, as it let to the US being taken over from within and the factors JFK was eliminating.

Harry Truman had this idea of having every Federal Agency run by top level Masons, this is similar to why the Y-12 plant has all Masonic management. So, the CIA was run by Mason Dulles, the FBI by Masonic Hoover, and even the JCS being run with lots of Masons. Doing that made it very easy for Imperialism / UK backed Masons to take over the US from within. JFK was very much eliminating them and calling them out in the Press Club's Secret Society Speech.

The Bomb Project led to the Cold War against the US Ally Russia, and the dropping of the Atomic Bombs on Japan to become the new Nuclear domination for world diplomacy.

So, move up to the times of the nuclear bombs being attached to rockets due to the captured Germans from WWII, and you find the Army's Ralph M. Lockhart is at Florida's Patrick AFB in 1958 and right at the time for the Jupiter Missile development that had the first nuclear warheads attached that were installed in Turkey. Also, include the knowledge that Patrick AFB was the home for the USAEC's military's monitoring for atomic tests in Russia via connections with Turkey, which is how the Jupiter Missiles came to be aimed at Russia from Turkey.

This soon blew up in the Military's face when Russia's Khrushchev learned of this and started Russia's own back door to the US rockets aimed at the US from Cuba. Then Catholic JFK was stuck right in the middle of a building hot nuclear war, and the Russians had loaded up Cuba was tactical nukes and also putting in long range missiles to counter the US game in Turkey. Then we find that the Army's now Colonel Ralph M. Lockhart from the Reserves and still connected with Patrick AFB gets activated for the Cuban Missile Crisis, and JFK is trying to walk a fine line with backing off Russia, cutting back channel deals with Khrushchev, while the US Military is calling JFK a Communist for not going full hot against the Russians in a Nuclear War that JCS's Curtis LeMay and some of the other crazy mad dogs on the JFK JCS were tying to make happen.

JFK narrowly avoided a Hot Nuke War due to the Crisis. A Russian North Sea sub almost fired a nuclear torpedo at US Ships trying for force the Russian Sub to surface, via near miss Depth Charges. Only one Russian Sub Commander's vote averted most of the US East Coast being missing. Thereby JFK's JCS considered JFK was a Communist, a Catholic, and a coward. Which made it easy to turn the guns on Catholic JFK as the Oak Ridge and New Orleans involved Masonic plot to kill Castro covertly fell apart. Persons like Jack Ruby had knowledge of all these methods and the "connections", plus he had direct ties to Masonic and Jewish backing LBJ and a nice high level security clearance.

The plot to kill JFK came directly from the same methods used to kill spies and Communists in NYC and for the Manhattan Project. All it took to turn the guns for a Mafia hit on JFK was for ORNL Mason Raymond W. Tucker,Sr. to call up Dallas' Jack Rubenstein (Who really hated JFK for keeping Israel from Nuclear Weapons) and tell here is how to get rid of the JFK problems for the Mafia, the corrupt elements in the Castro Cancer hit attempt, for the FBI / JCS, and for LBJ. Oak Ridge had complete access to all CIA files, had a lot of Imperialist Catholic hating Masons in the plants management, and a lot of workers wanting a nuclear build up for making tons of weapons employment that became the nuclear insanity for MAD.

Lee Oswald knew too much and he was trying to stop all the JFK hit attempts, and they knew he was routing them out, and that LHO had to die with JFK, which became Marcello Mafia's Jack Ruby's duty when things did not go down as planned. If all the Military Plans of using the Mafia around Ports for the Manhattan Project and even for Anti-Castro deals, all their heads would be chopped off via public outrage, not to mention war crimes issues. imho

Jack Ruby though all his Mafia and Mil connections would get him cut loose, and with some frustration he give up a lot of knowledge to Ace NYC reporter Dorothy Killgallen, which was right in the middle of the NYC Mafia that ended her life and grabbed all the notes on what Jack Ruby gave up to her. Dorothy was a proper nice Catholic Lady trying to do what the press is supposed to do, which was tell the truth on the JFK hit. She was murdered to suppress the truth on Catholic JFK.

So, with JFK gone, it became the Masonic Duty of LBJ to make a bigger frame up against LHO, as the only crazy person, and LBJ assigned Masonic Warren to run the cover up report with a number of other corrupt Masons helping hide the massive crimes. Corrupt Texas Mason claimed the frame up was needed to keep Russia and Cuba from making war on the US, but real deal is the Citizens would find how corrupt their Govt had become, and all the crook's heads would get the guillotine.

That is the actual magnitude of those wanting JFK dead.

You forgot Lincoln.

 

[mingle]

Its not a coincidence that whenever a General has led Pakistan, the country has prospered. Its because Generals are usually more patriotic and their prime focus is on governance.

At the time of Ayub, Zia and Musharraf, the country has prospered and also its stock in the world gone up. The reason being when country gains internal strength, it gains respect too.

Reason is political elites run country like Godfather .