Featured Pakistan Navy Type 054AP Frigates - Update, News & Discussion

[ziaulislam]

whats the delivery time ?

2023-2028 (all 8 2/year)

Noone knows what it will field till disclosed by PN ( dont know if they will)

But babur will be fielded by all 11 AIP subs that would be nuclear deterance for next 30+ years as all subs will be good as new

The older 3 agosta will then be retired somewhere around 2030

 

[maverick1977]

2023-2028 (all 8 2/year)

Noone knows what it will field till disclosed by PN ( dont know if they will)

But babur will be fielded by all 11 AIP subs that would be nuclear deterance for next 30+ years as all subs will be good as new

The older 3 agosta will then be retired somewhere around 2030

Mr. Zia ! This is great news ! India plans to field 3 to 5 carriers in next 15 years, sub field will come quite handy to deter their presence in Arabean Sea.

 

[Yasser76]

Mr. Zia ! This is great news ! India plans to field 3 to 5 carriers in next 15 years, sub field will come quite handy to deter their presence in Arabean Sea.

India, even by their own projections, will only field 2 carriers for the next 20 years. Both former Soviet designs, both with very limited air wing and rusty MIG-29s. If anything these will be more of a liability then an asset. India will need sub and destroyers to protect them. Their effect on a short, sharp India/Pakistan war will be zero. Just like we did not hear anything about the carrier they do have during Feb 27th.

Thanks to long range shore based Anti-ship missiles with 400km range, Indian carriers will have to station at least 500km off our coast. Combat range of MIG-29K is 850km but much less depending on load. Serviceability of the MIGs is between 16%-36% according to Indias own reports, so of the 42 remaining, only expect around 10 combat ready, of these 10 they will hold back 6 to defend the carrier (2 in the air, 2 on deck ready to replace them and 2 in reserve), that gives them 4 Migs to fly over Karachi

Then if they make it to our coast they will get welcome from SPADA 2000 SAM and JF-17s.

I have not even talked about the threat P-3C and Subs can present to such a big target.

If they lose one carrier it will be the biggest ever blow to Indian national pride since 1962.

These carriers are for prestige, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[maverick1977]

India, even by their own projections, will only field 2 carriers for the next 20 years. Both former Soviet designs, both with very limited air wing and rusty MIG-29s. If anything these will be more of a liability then an asset. India will need sub and destroyers to protect them. Their effect on a short, sharp India/Pakistan war will be zero. Just like we did not hear anything about the carrier they do have during Feb 27th.

Thanks to long range shore based Anti-ship missiles with 400km range, Indian carriers will have to station at least 500km off our coast. Combat range of MIG-29K is 850km but much less depending on load. Serviceability of the MIGs is between 16%-36% according to Indias own reports, so of the 42 remaining, only expect around 10 combat ready, of these 10 they will hold back 6 to defend the carrier (2 in the air, 2 on deck ready to replace them and 2 in reserve), that gives them 4 Migs to fly over Karachi

Then if they make it to our coast they will get welcome from SPADA 2000 SAM and JF-17s.

I have not even talked about the threat P-3C and Subs can present to such a big target.

If they lose one carrier it will be the biggest ever blow to Indian national pride since 1962.

These carriers are for prestige, nothing more, nothing less.

India will most likely field FA18 super hornets through their second carriers. US Navy is testing the ski Ramp launch at Aberdeen Proving Grounds. SO far the tests have been successful with high load testing and powerful GE engines.

F/A-18 Super Hornet Is Now Undergoing Ski Jump Launch Trials For The Indian Navy

The Boeing fighter jet is vying for an Indian Navy contract and that service only has aircraft carriers with ski jumps at present.

www.thedrive.com

Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Specifications (F/A-18E/F)


General characteristics

• Crew: F/A-18E: 1 (pilot), F/A-18F: 2 (pilot and weapon systems officer)
• Length: 60 ft 1.25 in (18.31 m)
• Wingspan: 44 ft 8.5 in (13.62 m)
• Height: 16 ft 0 in (4.88 m)
• Wing area: 500 sq ft (46.5 m2)
• Empty weight: 32,081 lb (14,552 kg)
• Gross weight: 47,000 lb (21,320 kg) (equipped as fighter)
• Max takeoff weight: 66,000 lb (29,937 kg)
• Internal fuel capacity: F/A-18E: 14,700 lb (6,667 kg), F/A-18F: 13,760 lb (6,241 kg)
• External fuel capacity:Up to 4 × 480 gal tanks, totaling 13,040 lb (5,914 kg)
• Powerplant: 2 × General Electric F414-GE-400 turbofans, 13,000 lbf (58 kN) thrust each dry, 22,000 lbf (98 kN) with afterburner

Performance

• Maximum speed: 1,030 kn (1,190 mph, 1,915 km/h) at 40,000 ft (12,190 m)[207]
• Maximum speed: Mach 1.6[208]
• Range: 1,275 nmi (1,458 mi, 2,346 km) with armament of two AIM-9s[3]
• Combat range: 390 nmi (449 mi, 722 km) for interdiction[209]
• Ferry range: 1,800 nmi (2,070 mi, 3,330 km)
• Service ceiling: 50,000 ft (15,000 m) at least
• Rate of climb: 44,882 ft/min (228 m/s)
• Wing loading: 94.0 lb/sq ft (459 kg/m2)
• Thrust/weight: 0.93[211]
• Design load factor: 7.6 g[62][212]

Armament

• Guns: 1× 20 mm (0.787 in) M61A2 Vulcan, 412 rounds[213]
• Hardpoints: 11 (2× wingtips, 6× under-wing, and 3× under-fuselage) with a capacity of Max payload: 17,750 lb (8,050 kg). Carrier Bringback Payload: F/A-18E: 9,900 lb (4,491 kg), F/A-18F: 9,000 lb (4,082 kg)[214],with provisions to carry combinations of:
  • Missiles:
    • 4× AIM-9 Sidewinder
    • 12× AIM-120 AMRAAM
    • 4× AIM-7 Sparrow
    • 6× AGM-65 E/F Maverick
    • 4× AGM-84H/K Standoff Land Attack Missile Expanded Response (SLAM-ER)
    • 6× AGM-88 HARM Anti-radiation missile (ARM)
    • 4× AGM-154 Joint Standoff Weapon (JSOW)
    • AGM-158 Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile
    • 2× AGM-84 Harpoon anti-ship missile
    • AGM-158C Long Range Anti-Ship Missile (LRASM), in the future[citation needed]
  • Bombs:
    • JDAM (up to 10× GBU-32/35/38/54 or 4× GBU-31)
    • Paveway series of laser-guided bombs
    • Mk 80 series unguided bombs
    • CBU-78 Gator mine system
    • Mk 20 Rockeye II cluster bomb
    • Mk-62/63/65 Quick Strike Naval mine
  • Other:
    • SUU-42A/A Flares/infrared decoy dispenser pod and chaff pod
    • AN/ALE-50 towed decoy system pod
    • AN/ASQ-228 ATFLIR Targeting pods
    • up to 4× 480 US gal (1,800 l; 400 imp gal) drop tanks and 1× A/A42R-1 Aerial Refueling Store pod for aerial refueling.
    • 12× ADM-141C TALD decoys
    • AWW-13 Advanced data link pod

Avionics

• Hughes APG-73 or Raytheon APG-79 Radar
• Northrop Grumman/ITT ALQ-165 self-protection jammer system or BAE Systems AN/ALE-214 integrated defensive electronic countermeasures system
• Raytheon AN/ALE-50 or BAE Systems AN/ALE-55 towed decoy
• Raytheon AN/ALR-67(V)3 radar warning receiver
• MIDS LVT or MIDS JTRS datalink transceiver

 

[Yasser76]

India will most likely field FA18 super hornets through their second carriers. US Navy is testing the ski Ramp launch at Aberdeen Proving Grounds. SO far the tests have been successful with high load testing and powerful GE engines.

F/A-18 Super Hornet Is Now Undergoing Ski Jump Launch Trials For The Indian Navy

The Boeing fighter jet is vying for an Indian Navy contract and that service only has aircraft carriers with ski jumps at present.

www.thedrive.com

Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Specifications (F/A-18E/F)


General characteristics

• Crew: F/A-18E: 1 (pilot), F/A-18F: 2 (pilot and weapon systems officer)
• Length: 60 ft 1.25 in (18.31 m)
• Wingspan: 44 ft 8.5 in (13.62 m)
• Height: 16 ft 0 in (4.88 m)
• Wing area: 500 sq ft (46.5 m2)
• Empty weight: 32,081 lb (14,552 kg)
• Gross weight: 47,000 lb (21,320 kg) (equipped as fighter)
• Max takeoff weight: 66,000 lb (29,937 kg)
• Internal fuel capacity: F/A-18E: 14,700 lb (6,667 kg), F/A-18F: 13,760 lb (6,241 kg)
• External fuel capacity:Up to 4 × 480 gal tanks, totaling 13,040 lb (5,914 kg)
• Powerplant: 2 × General Electric F414-GE-400 turbofans, 13,000 lbf (58 kN) thrust each dry, 22,000 lbf (98 kN) with afterburner

Performance

• Maximum speed: 1,030 kn (1,190 mph, 1,915 km/h) at 40,000 ft (12,190 m)[207]
• Maximum speed: Mach 1.6[208]
• Range: 1,275 nmi (1,458 mi, 2,346 km) with armament of two AIM-9s[3]
• Combat range: 390 nmi (449 mi, 722 km) for interdiction[209]
• Ferry range: 1,800 nmi (2,070 mi, 3,330 km)
• Service ceiling: 50,000 ft (15,000 m) at least
• Rate of climb: 44,882 ft/min (228 m/s)
• Wing loading: 94.0 lb/sq ft (459 kg/m2)
• Thrust/weight: 0.93[211]
• Design load factor: 7.6 g[62][212]

Armament

• Guns: 1× 20 mm (0.787 in) M61A2 Vulcan, 412 rounds[213]
• Hardpoints: 11 (2× wingtips, 6× under-wing, and 3× under-fuselage) with a capacity of Max payload: 17,750 lb (8,050 kg). Carrier Bringback Payload: F/A-18E: 9,900 lb (4,491 kg), F/A-18F: 9,000 lb (4,082 kg)[214],with provisions to carry combinations of:
  • Missiles:
    • 4× AIM-9 Sidewinder
    • 12× AIM-120 AMRAAM
    • 4× AIM-7 Sparrow
    • 6× AGM-65 E/F Maverick
    • 4× AGM-84H/K Standoff Land Attack Missile Expanded Response (SLAM-ER)
    • 6× AGM-88 HARM Anti-radiation missile (ARM)
    • 4× AGM-154 Joint Standoff Weapon (JSOW)
    • AGM-158 Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile
    • 2× AGM-84 Harpoon anti-ship missile
    • AGM-158C Long Range Anti-Ship Missile (LRASM), in the future[citation needed]
  • Bombs:
    • JDAM (up to 10× GBU-32/35/38/54 or 4× GBU-31)
    • Paveway series of laser-guided bombs
    • Mk 80 series unguided bombs
    • CBU-78 Gator mine system
    • Mk 20 Rockeye II cluster bomb
    • Mk-62/63/65 Quick Strike Naval mine
  • Other:
    • SUU-42A/A Flares/infrared decoy dispenser pod and chaff pod
    • AN/ALE-50 towed decoy system pod
    • AN/ASQ-228 ATFLIR Targeting pods
    • up to 4× 480 US gal (1,800 l; 400 imp gal) drop tanks and 1× A/A42R-1 Aerial Refueling Store pod for aerial refueling.
    • 12× ADM-141C TALD decoys
    • AWW-13 Advanced data link pod

Avionics

• Hughes APG-73 or Raytheon APG-79 Radar
• Northrop Grumman/ITT ALQ-165 self-protection jammer system or BAE Systems AN/ALE-214 integrated defensive electronic countermeasures system
• Raytheon AN/ALE-50 or BAE Systems AN/ALE-55 towed decoy
• Raytheon AN/ALR-67(V)3 radar warning receiver
• MIDS LVT or MIDS JTRS datalink transceiver

IN has not even ordered this, but already we are assuming it will be flying against Karachi!?

This is a bit like me saying that Mercedes dealership has booked me a test drive of new C200 Cabriolet, so I will tell my friends next week I own onew.

IAF was supposed to have 114 MMRCA fighters 10 years ago.....

 

[Imran Khan]

IN has not even ordered this, but already we are assuming it will be flying against Karachi!?

This is a bit like me saying that Mercedes dealership has booked me a test drive of new C200 Cabriolet, so I will tell my friends next week I own onew.

IAF was supposed to have 114 MMRCA fighters 10 years ago.....

there is very long list of indian dreams which indians threateneing us here in this very own forum

hundreds of 5th gen made in india FFGA su57
180 mmrca + 40 optioned
thousands of artillery guns
missiles which never came
and what not but in reality 5 raales pe rnagan dance ker raha hai india

 

[Aamir Hussain]

202 000 Indian students... just google before you post ..

in 1988 there were 202,000 indian students on F1 visa in US??? Or this is the current figure?

 

[ziaulislam]

Mr. Zia ! This is great news ! India plans to field 3 to 5 carriers in next 15 years, sub field will come quite handy to deter their presence in Arabean Sea.

Doubt it..
My guess just 1 will ever be operational. Before the second comes on around 2025-2030 the first one will have its useful life over

The third carrier is official been axed from development.

 

[ziaulislam]

Best case senrio till 2040 is they will keep 2 operational with one always docked for maintenance

PN is more worried about india surface fleet with 25+ frigates destroyers the number will peak to 40+ by 2030

PN will need atleast 12 frigates preferably 16 to counter this along with new generation helis..
So although these four are welcome addition PN may need additional 4.

IMO PN should order 4 additional if the chinese are able to mass produce them cheap(most produced large frigate)

However if PN is serious about long term indegization then it should not buy 4 additional and bet its focus on turkish program and build those under tot from 2023 on wards..

In the short term the additional 8 ships will add 200% capacity to PN. As we are adding 8 new ships in 5 years. I dont count the older obsolete ships.

Pc3 are going to be on their last legs post 2030 so something needs to replace them. Something better with decent antiship /antisub capabilities seeing PN doesnt has a air arm.

Subs we have 11 and IN will keep around 15-20 by 2030 so we will be good there too.

 

[maverick1977]

Doubt it..
My guess just 1 will ever be operational. Before the second comes on around 2025-2030 the first one will have its useful life over

The third carrier is official been axed from development.

I hope that is the case. Lets see how the level of partnership between US and India will turn out in couple of years.

IN has not even ordered this, but already we are assuming it will be flying against Karachi!?

This is a bit like me saying that Mercedes dealership has booked me a test drive of new C200 Cabriolet, so I will tell my friends next week I own onew.

IAF was supposed to have 114 MMRCA fighters 10 years ago.....

No one is assuming anything here. This is a potential and thats what Pentagon will wow india with...

Best case senrio till 2040 is they will keep 2 operational with one always docked for maintenance

PN is more worried about india surface fleet with 25+ frigates destroyers the number will peak to 40+ by 2030

PN will need atleast 12 frigates preferably 16 to counter this along with new generation helis..
So although these four are welcome addition PN may need additional 4.

IMO PN should order 4 additional if the chinese are able to mass produce them cheap(most produced large frigate)

However if PN is serious about long term indegization then it should not buy 4 additional and bet its focus on turkish program and build those under tot from 2023 on wards..

In the short term the additional 8 ships will add 200% capacity to PN. As we are adding 8 new ships in 5 years. I dont count the older obsolete ships.

Pc3 are going to be on their last legs post 2030 so something needs to replace them. Something better with decent antiship /antisub capabilities seeing PN doesnt has a air arm.

Subs we have 11 and IN will keep around 15-20 by 2030 so we will be good there too.

Mr Zia, i agree with your assessment. Surface ships will pose a serious threat as india will boast its local destroyer building capabilities.

For P3C replacement, PN should start looking for an upgraded version of Chinese Tu16 naval maritime aircraft in MPA configuration.

 

[mingle]

I hope that is the case. Lets see how the level of partnership between US and India will turn out in couple of years.



No one is assuming anything here. This is a potential and thats what Pentagon will wow india with...



Mr Zia, i agree with your assessment. Surface ships will pose a serious threat as india will boast its local destroyer building capabilities.

For P3C replacement, PN should start looking for an upgraded version of Chinese Tu16 naval maritime aircraft in MPA configuration.

Why not modified HK-6 for Navy?

 

[Ghost 125]

Then if they make it to our coast they will get welcome from SPADA 2000 SAM and JF-17s.

dont forget the LOMADs

 

[danger007]

in 1988 there were 202,000 indian students on F1 visa in US??? Or this is the current figure?

Current, Chinese around 365000..

 

[danger007]

India, even by their own projections, will only field 2 carriers for the next 20 years. Both former Soviet designs, both with very limited air wing and rusty MIG-29s. If anything these will be more of a liability then an asset. India will need sub and destroyers to protect them. Their effect on a short, sharp India/Pakistan war will be zero. Just like we did not hear anything about the carrier they do have during Feb 27th.

Thanks to long range shore based Anti-ship missiles with 400km range, Indian carriers will have to station at least 500km off our coast. Combat range of MIG-29K is 850km but much less depending on load. Serviceability of the MIGs is between 16%-36% according to Indias own reports, so of the 42 remaining, only expect around 10 combat ready, of these 10 they will hold back 6 to defend the carrier (2 in the air, 2 on deck ready to replace them and 2 in reserve), that gives them 4 Migs to fly over Karachi

Then if they make it to our coast they will get welcome from SPADA 2000 SAM and JF-17s.

I have not even talked about the threat P-3C and Subs can present to such a big target.

If they lose one carrier it will be the biggest ever blow to Indian national pride since 1962.

These carriers are for prestige, nothing more, nothing less.

Pakistan don't have luxury to diversify jf 17 for naval ops.. unless Pn procure... IN have their own jets and there will be in another 54 jets order... for subs.. we have more no of P8 I and other ASW platform... IN still far more lethal than PN.... AC don't need to park near port...

 

[maverick1977]

Why not modified HK-6 for Navy?

Thats what i meant but got the wrong acronym, not Tu16 but chinese H6Naval MPA versioin. whats the viability of getting that platform from cost perspective and operational maintenance.