Featured Pakistan Navy Type 054AP Frigates - Update, News & Discussion

[xbat]

Just curious. Turkey and India - who warship technology is better?

Turkey can make everything about a warship except engine and gas turbine. dont know about india's capability.

 

[SBUS-CXK]

Turkey can make everything about a warship except engine and gas turbine. dont know about india's capability.

But India has experience in building missile destroyers. they can also build submarines. even nuclear submarines.

 

[Tank131]

Just curious. Turkey and India - who warship technology is better?

Turkey makes everything in house from the turbines, to sensors and weapons. Indias sensors are French and Israeli and the weapons are Indo-russian (brahmos) or Israeli (Barak 8). Their turbines are Russian as well. With that said, I don't doubt the capability of the system out together by the Indian Navy. Kalkotas, Delhis, Talwars and Shivalik are good systems (at least on Paper). The 054A are probably in the capability realm as Shivalik and Delhis while the MILGEM is be around the capability of Talwars (although they will carry more firepower than the MILGEM, though they are significantly larger).

I agree with @Bilal Khan (Quwa) on where PN should look to go in the future with 3000t ships but I think it may need all the way up to 3000-4500t. I would ideally like them to look at the modified MILGEM-G/MILGEM blk 2 design, slightly enlarged for PN Needs much like Milgem/Jinnah mods. Instead of the planned 16 cell VLS, PN needs a 32 cells. It would still take the 16 AShM capacity at midship, which is hidden behind the walls of the ship, and instead of a single CIWS like Phalanx at the rear, it should be armed with 2 CIWS and a PDMS at the rear. The VLS should be large/deep enough to equip 24 HQ-9 and 8 cells reserved for G-40 (32 quad packed 40km range missiles from Turkey). Sensors should be based on CAFRAD and a new Genesis CMS.

 

[xbat]

it is speculated that I Class was extended 3 meters so additional space for 16 vls, compare both image above just behind main gun area.

 

[SBUS-CXK]

Turkey makes everything in house from the turbines, to sensors and weapons. Indias sensors are French and Israeli and the weapons are Indo-russian (brahmos) or Israeli (Barak 8). Their turbines are Russian as well. With that said, I don't doubt the capability of the system out together by the Indian Navy. Kalkotas, Delhis, Talwars and Shivalik are good systems (at least on Paper). The 054A are probably in the capability realm as Shivalik and Delhis while the MILGEM is be around the capability of Talwars (although they will carry more firepower than the MILGEM, though they are significantly larger).

I agree with @Bilal Khan (Quwa) on where PN should look to go in the future with 3000t ships but I think it may need all the way up to 3000-4500t. I would ideally like them to look at the modified MILGEM-G/MILGEM blk 2 design, slightly enlarged for PN Needs much like Milgem/Jinnah mods. Instead of the planned 16 cell VLS, PN needs a 32 cells. It would still take the 16 AShM capacity at midship, which is hidden behind the walls of the ship, and instead of a single CIWS like Phalanx at the rear, it should be armed with 2 CIWS and a PDMS at the rear. The VLS should be large/deep enough to equip 24 HQ-9 and 8 cells reserved for G-40 (32 quad packed 40km range missiles from Turkey). Sensors should be based on CAFRAD and a new Genesis CMS.

Although NATO technology sharing is relatively convenient. but it also comes with 'uncertainty'. For example, key components, engines, and key materials may be embargoed at any time.

but India is different. In addition to P5. It is the only country with a complete defense industry (including warships, fighters, ballistic missiles, submarines, space weapons etc.). India even has a separate satellite navigation system. and India are also developing aero engines. and India has experience building large warships and more complex technology warships. the most important is. because of India's international status and geopolitics. India has never faced the arms embargo.

Even talking about the civil technology. India is also far stronger than Turkey. such as Tata Motors, Reliance Industries, Mahindra, etc.

 

[LKJ86]

Ideally, the future PN mainstay ship should be under 3,000 tons, but carry enough in terms of medium and long-range SAMs,

Does any warship under 3000 tons carry long range SAMs in world now?

 

[xbat]

israeli saar with barak8

 

[LKJ86]

israeli saar with barak8

Is it so-called "long range SAM"?

 

[xbat]

100 kms is not bad..

 

[SBUS-CXK]

Type 52C/D are expensive and if ever acquired by PN will likely be the Flagships of the Squadron, I hope to see more Type-54(A/B etc. )

If PN uses the Type-54s as PAF does with F-16, then Type 54A will be the flagships and then expect more J class to form the squadron.

Indeed, thus if PN gets Type 052C/D type, it be couple of units, cost of acquiring plus routine operation and maintenance. As much as I would like to see Type 052C/D in PN Service, unless economy takes a dramatic upswing and momentum is sustained the probability is very slim.

I believe the Pakistani Navy leader is very interested in type 052D.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I believe the Pakistani Navy leader is very interested in type 052D.

View attachment 615359 View attachment 615363 View attachment 615364

Interestingly, in 2016 the Chinese sent three types of ships to Pakistan for exercises: the Type 039A/041 submarine, the Type 054A frigate, and the Type 052C destroyer. Of those ships, the PN bought two of them, leaving the third (052)...

The current PN roadmap is working towards two forces, each with 2 054A/P frigates and 4 light frigates in the 2,000 to 3,000-ton class (F-22P and/or MILGEM). So, a destroyer for each could make sense, especially if it has long-range SAMs and VL-LACM capability.

 

[MastanKhan]

Interestingly, in 2016 the Chinese sent three types of ships to Pakistan for exercises: the Type 039A/041 submarine, the Type 054A frigate, and the Type 052C destroyer. Of those ships, the PN bought two of them, leaving the third (052)...

The current PN roadmap is working towards two forces, each with 2 054A/P frigates and 4 light frigates in the 2,000 to 3,000-ton class (F-22P and/or MILGEM). So, a destroyer for each could make sense, especially if it has long-range SAMs and VL-LACM capability.

Hi,

Who would know better than you that one thing that pak military on a consistent basis believes in a stair step progression---.

Which means it does not bite more than it can chew---. Once the 054's get assimilated you will see the 052's coming in---.

 

[JohnWick]

Turkey makes everything in house from the turbines, to sensors and weapons. Indias sensors are French and Israeli and the weapons are Indo-russian (brahmos) or Israeli (Barak 8). Their turbines are Russian as well. With that said, I don't doubt the capability of the system out together by the Indian Navy. Kalkotas, Delhis, Talwars and Shivalik are good systems (at least on Paper). The 054A are probably in the capability realm as Shivalik and Delhis while the MILGEM is be around the capability of Talwars (although they will carry more firepower than the MILGEM, though they are significantly larger).

I agree with @Bilal Khan (Quwa) on where PN should look to go in the future with 3000t ships but I think it may need all the way up to 3000-4500t. I would ideally like them to look at the modified MILGEM-G/MILGEM blk 2 design, slightly enlarged for PN Needs much like Milgem/Jinnah mods. Instead of the planned 16 cell VLS, PN needs a 32 cells. It would still take the 16 AShM capacity at midship, which is hidden behind the walls of the ship, and instead of a single CIWS like Phalanx at the rear, it should be armed with 2 CIWS and a PDMS at the rear. The VLS should be large/deep enough to equip 24 HQ-9 and 8 cells reserved for G-40 (32 quad packed 40km range missiles from Turkey). Sensors should be based on CAFRAD and a new Genesis CMS.

The interesting thing is they are going to carry Z-20 i.e Chinese black Hawk?

 

[khanasifm]

Interestingly, in 2016 the Chinese sent three types of ships to Pakistan for exercises: the Type 039A/041 submarine, the Type 054A frigate, and the Type 052C destroyer. Of those ships, the PN bought two of them, leaving the third (052)...

The current PN roadmap is working towards two forces, each with 2 054A/P frigates and 4 light frigates in the 2,000 to 3,000-ton class (F-22P and/or MILGEM). So, a destroyer for each could make sense, especially if it has long-range SAMs and VL-LACM capability.

Type 052c with 7000 tons are too big and pn perhaps will be better served to buy additional smaller 054a or add more Turkish based ships

there is initial cost and there is operational cost and smaller ships will serve pn well
I doubt pn will go for 052c

 

[khanasifm]