Ghessan
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Delivering first ship this month.
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These are two different ships, while coming out of dock it doesn't have the radar while being positioned it has radar.
The ONLY EFFECTIVE WAY of CRIPPLING - YES CRIPPLING - Indian navy is ONLY if PN has JH-7 and J-15/16 Fighters Jets. But as usual it astounds me that PN and Pakistan Military continue to make this strategic blunder of not having these jets. With these jets, Indian Carriers are a sitting duck, and whole of Pakistan's sea border becomes Inaccessible to India.
I have been saying this for age's but it falls on deaf ear. You can have a 100 ships but they are useless tin cans in the water without proper air cover (no, Air-Air Missiles will not help).
Yes indeed. PN just cannot match IN in numbers. The ONLY WAY is to have JH-7/J-15/J-16 type jets, around 50 in number, which can decimate IN, and can cover all of Eastern and Southern India and go all the way to Kerala.
How exactly would you:Yes indeed. PN just cannot match IN in numbers. The ONLY WAY is to have JH-7/J-15/J-16 type jets, around 50 in number, which can decimate IN, and can cover all of Eastern and Southern India and go all the way to Kerala.
Overall, I think the PAF and PN probably agree that a twin-engine heavyweight (MTOW 32-ton) fighter is required for maritime ops. However, said fighter is probably not available on the market, hence the desire to set the ASR of AZM along those lines. In other words, we've acknowledged the need, but there's no real way of fulfilling it unless we pursue an original design (either with a trusted partner or alone).How exactly would you:
A. Deploy this mixed bag fleet of obsolete and/or heavy fighters in a real world scenario
B. Manage the training and logistics of three types with two different generation engines and performance parameters?
C. The distance to eastern India( assuming you are wanting to fly across mainland India to get to eastern India) is about 1200mi of which 90% is over hostile airspace with air defense and interceptors. That is also roughly the same distance to the southernmost IN base.
The maximum straight line radius of operations for a JH-7 is about 1000mi with refueling and assuming no AB use and forgetting any on station time for them.
The maximum radius for the J-15/J-16 is around 1500mi to 1600mi on high altitude flight with zero evasive maneuvers and no station time(meaning it goes and comes back). Adding the real life aspects of having to engage enemy aircraft on route or means this range drops down further to around 900mi or so effective range which is really why the IAF can only consider using it’s MKIs to fly around Pakistan via air refueling.
So now we need air refueling back and forth to get to South or East India with any meaningful payload - which means that considering the threat level that High value asset so far from friendly skies is going to need its own protection that needs either a J-16 or J-15 to guard it. So now for just 4 J-16s you need 2 or 4 J-15s to guard its refueller. Then, even if these aircraft get that far they need a good indication where to look for vessels otherwise they need a MPA(another HVAA that will need support) out there to advise them where to fine tune their SEA mode searches since the flight time isn’t exactly 10 minutes and ships do move even if at a stately 25 knots.
Finally, after each sortie there is maintenance time so the average servicibikity of flanker variants even in the best of airforces barely crosses 65%. Which means of your proposed 50 mix of JH-7, J-15(why you are even including a carrier variant is beyond me) ,J-16 we have About 30 at best available of which only 20 would be the flanker variants with the pilot fatigue in that mix as well.
So even if we sent a flight of 2 armed with 4 AsHMs(which could even with a 100% success rate that never happens) take 8 ships out every time to fight their way to a target and fight it out with refueling - after the first day surge we would barely have 6-8 flankers serviceable at any given time for responses which may also be required for other duties as well besides blowing the IN out of the water.
Finally, assuming the obsolete “new” JH-7s cost $25 million , J-15s at $60 and J-16s at $65 and getting 16 aircraft each puts you at $2.4 billion for the airframes alone - add in training for pilots and technicians, facilities, spares, weapons adds another $400 million easily with higher priced spares since you cant use volume discounts nor offset with local production unlike the JF-17.
So for all that money you are getting three different systems that require a lot of support to achieve a goal that has really no need to occur with a lifecycle cost that will be too much to bear for the PN budget in the first place. Would love to see what your justifications are for A,B and C
How exactly would you:
A. Deploy this mixed bag fleet of obsolete and/or heavy fighters in a real world scenario
B. Manage the training and logistics of three types with two different generation engines and performance parameters?
C. The distance to eastern India( assuming you are wanting to fly across mainland India to get to eastern India) is about 1200mi of which 90% is over hostile airspace with air defense and interceptors. That is also roughly the same distance to the southernmost IN base.
The maximum straight line radius of operations for a JH-7 is about 1000mi with refueling and assuming no AB use and forgetting any on station time for them.
The maximum radius for the J-15/J-16 is around 1500mi to 1600mi on high altitude flight with zero evasive maneuvers and no station time(meaning it goes and comes back). Adding the real life aspects of having to engage enemy aircraft on route or means this range drops down further to around 900mi or so effective range which is really why the IAF can only consider using it’s MKIs to fly around Pakistan via air refueling.
So now we need air refueling back and forth to get to South or East India with any meaningful payload - which means that considering the threat level that High value asset so far from friendly skies is going to need its own protection that needs either a J-16 or J-15 to guard it. So now for just 4 J-16s you need 2 or 4 J-15s to guard its refueller. Then, even if these aircraft get that far they need a good indication where to look for vessels otherwise they need a MPA(another HVAA that will need support) out there to advise them where to fine tune their SEA mode searches since the flight time isn’t exactly 10 minutes and ships do move even if at a stately 25 knots.
Finally, after each sortie there is maintenance time so the average servicibikity of flanker variants even in the best of airforces barely crosses 65%. Which means of your proposed 50 mix of JH-7, J-15(why you are even including a carrier variant is beyond me) ,J-16 we have About 30 at best available of which only 20 would be the flanker variants with the pilot fatigue in that mix as well.
So even if we sent a flight of 2 armed with 4 AsHMs(which could even with a 100% success rate that never happens) take 8 ships out every time to fight their way to a target and fight it out with refueling - after the first day surge we would barely have 6-8 flankers serviceable at any given time for responses which may also be required for other duties as well besides blowing the IN out of the water.
Finally, assuming the obsolete “new” JH-7s cost $25 million , J-15s at $60 and J-16s at $65 and getting 16 aircraft each puts you at $2.4 billion for the airframes alone - add in training for pilots and technicians, facilities, spares, weapons adds another $400 million easily with higher priced spares since you cant use volume discounts nor offset with local production unlike the JF-17.
So for all that money you are getting three different systems that require a lot of support to achieve a goal that has really no need to occur with a lifecycle cost that will be too much to bear for the PN budget in the first place. Would love to see what your justifications are for A,B and C
Yes indeed. PN just cannot match IN in numbers. The ONLY WAY is to have JH-7/J-15/J-16 type jets, around 50 in number, which can decimate IN, and can cover all of Eastern and Southern India and go all the way to Kerala.
J10C will be coming to Pakistan. it will be announced at the end of the year to mid march next year. 2 squardons will be stationed, on in karachi and one in New airbase in Turbut Balochiatan.