Pakistan Navy Submarine Hangor placed at Maritime Museum

[fatman17]

Pakistan Navy Submarine Hangor placed at Maritime Museum
Monday, 10 December 2007

Pakistan Navy Submarine “Hangor”, a Dephne class submarine of Pakistan Navy, which in a gallantry act during 1971 Indo-Pak war sank the Blackwood class Indian Navy Ship KUKRI near Indian coast on the night of 09 December 1971, has been placed at Pakistan Maritime Museum for general public.
An ISPR (Navy) press release said in this connection, a ceremony was held at Pakistan Maritime Museum which was attended by Chief of the Naval Staff Admiral Muhammad Afzal Tahir.

Speaking on the occasion, the Naval Chief said submarine squadron of Pakistan Navy has come a long way over the last four decades and now transformed into a full-fledged potent arm.

He said today’s occasion also reminds us of the responsibilities and the trust reposed by our nation for the maritime defence of the country.

The Naval Chief said addition of this historical submarine has made Pakistan Maritime Museum one of its kinds.

It well act aesthetic interface between Navy and the general public and certainly inspire and educate the younger generations, he added.

Chief of the Naval Staff paid rich tribute to the high level of Professionalism of the submarine Hangor crew, including Commander Ahmed Tasnim who later made Vice Admiral and Commanded the Naval Fleet.

Earlier, Director General Pakistan Maritime Museum Commodore (Retd) Jamal Abdullah apprised the audience about the project of placing submarine at the Museum.

He also shed light on the historical significance of the submarine.

PNS/M HANGOR always remained a pride for Pakistan Navy submarine squadron. During 1971 Indo-Pak war, the submarine successfully undertook many brave operations.

At the night of 09 December 1971, at Diuhead off Indian West Coast, PNS/M HANGOR, detected an anti submarine group of Indian Navy. The group consisted of two Blackwood class frigates INS Kirpan and INS Kukri. PNS/M Hangor attacked the enemy frigates with its torpedoes sinking INS Kukri while severely damaging INS Kirpan,

After World War II, it was the first incident of destroying enemy warship with torpedoes.

 

[HAIDER]

any photo session ?

 

[HAIDER]

KARACHI - Dec 10: Pakistan Navy’s submarine Hangor

 

[ahussains]

thst a nice pic i think we have all agosta submarines active now left

 

[HAIDER]

Give this to Bangladesh too. Atleast they use it for training. I think Pak already delivered 3 subs of same class.

 

[Bill the Butcher]

The article claims:
sinking INS Kukri while severely damaging INS Kirpan,
This happens tp be factually untrue. The Kirpan was missed by the Hangor. It returned, in fact, on an unsuccessful mission (with the help of Super Constellations dropping sonobuoys) to hunt the sub.
In fact, if the Hangor had successfully torpedoed the Kirpan, it stands to reason that the old and completely obsolete frigate would not have survived. The Khukri didn't.
I see no reason, almost forty years after the incident, why we can't discuss things without repeating falsehoods.
I ought to make it clear that although I am an Indian, I have no animosity towards the Pakistani armed forces and I do not believe that 1971 was a "righteous" war on India's part. Also, I do not believe (and I have discussed this at considerable length on various fora) that PNS Ghazi was sunk by the Indian Navy. I believe I can prove that it was sunk by accident.
In the same spirit, I wish the (pretty meaningless, because it's so pointless) propaganda about the alleged damage to the Kirpan was dropped.
Incidentally, I have seen on various Pakistani fora claims that the Hangor was the only sub to have sunk a ship since the end of WWII. Not true. It was the first, but not the only - the Argentinian light cruiser General Belgrano was sunk by the British submarine HMS Conqueror.
In any case, there's no need to belittle the achievement of the Hangor by false propaganda. Any sub which takes on sub-hunting ships (especially when said ships are not alone) is taking an enormous risk and shows exemplary courage. The Hangor wasn't to know that the Indian ships were obsolete to the point where they were far inferior to the sub. Therefore its crew's courage is commendable.
Also, the act of the Hangor scuppered the Indian Navy's plans for a new raid on Karachi harbour and made sure the Navy went into defensive mode for the remainder of the war.
If anyone would like proof of anything I've said above, please do feel free to contact me.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Bill,

Good post.

Please do post why you believe the Hangor did not hit the Kirpan. I am not saying you are wrong, just that my own knowledge on the issue is limited, and I would like to see both sides.

Thanks.

And please do introduce yourself on our members intro section.

 

[TOPGUN]

Damn i wish i was there to see it!!!!!!!!

 

[Bill the Butcher]

Please do post why you believe the Hangor did not hit the Kirpan.

There are many reasons why I believe the Hangor did not hit the Kirpan. These can be broadly grouped under three heads.

1. The evidence from Indian accounts: As I said, I am no fan of the Indian military (I worked with the IAF for three years and I’ve seen them from first hand). I also know all about Indian propaganda. However, there is not a single Indian account which even hints at the Kirpan having been hit. If the Kirpan had been hit and had got back to port, you’d have expected that they would have made an issue out of it, something along the lines of “Heroic Indian crew brings back crippled frigate”. After all, nobody, including the Indian government, ever pretended that there was any other reason for the sinking of the Khukri than being torpedoed by the Hangor.
I am unfortunately not allowed by this site to post URLs to Indian sites until I have posted at least 15 topics, otherwise I could have pointed you to Indian accounts, both factual and propaganda tainted. In each case the conclusion is the same: Kirpan abandoned the Khukri's sailors and ran for safety. it didn't suffer a scratch. In fact, if the Kirpan had been damaged, it could have been said by the Indian Navy that it was proof that the frigate didn't run!

2. The evidence from the Hangor crew: As far as I can see, the only basis for the Pakistani claim to have hit the Kirpan comes from a sound of an explosion the crew heard. There is no way they could have known, without coming to periscope depth and examining the Kirpan, whether it had been hit at all. Claiming a hit from the sound of an explosion is not sound practice (pardon the pun. I’m an inveterate punner.)

3. The empirical evidence: As I’ve said, if the Kirpan had been hit, it would not have been back on an unsuccessful sub-hunting mission. In fact, it would likely have followed the Khukri to the bottom of the sea. In fact the Kirpan was running for its life at the time and never hung around to be torpedoed. In fact, the Hangor’s crew could be faulted for not following up and making sure of the Kirpan as well. But as I said, they were not to know that they were fighting museum pieces.

I hope this has been useful to you.

 

[lindsyebanks]

PNS Ghazi was sunk due to an onboard explosion whilst it was deployed on a mine laying mission. The general view from Pakistan is that these mines were recently acquired from France, had been rushed into service just days prior to the Ghazi sailing and thereby bringing to mind the suggestion that crew had not had a chance to undertake any practise runs with this particular weaponary and associated deployment equipment.

whatever the actual cause, the most likely explanation to date has been offered by the sonar picture obtained by the Indian Navy of the Ghazi wreck, clearly showing an outward explosion in the forward torpedo room. I am no expert at Sonar diagrams nor have seen the actual one for Ghazi, but thats what has been documented and I can only find the below link on this matter Page

IN did take claim that it was the launching of mortars/depth charges from their destroyers which contributed to the explsion aboard Ghazi and subsequently its loss. However V Adm Muzaffar Hassan (CNC 1971) has stated that PN lost contact with PNS Ghazi days before hostility was officially declared between Pakistan and India. That would nullify IN claim to having taken any credit for Ghazi and her crews demise.