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Pakistan Navy Submarine Force to Equal the Indian Navy’s in Numbers with Purchase of 8 Chinese Subs

Hello all
If some one living in a dream that we can have or going to have more subs then Indians , then they are ........... well I wont say it u all are very intelligent .
We have only 3 AG90Bs and 2AG70s right now ,,,,,,,,,,,, 8 more coming from china so till 2028 max we will have 3+2+8 = 13 (way low number and also not fulfill PN requirement which is 18 subs ) .
Because of our own need and also to counter IN , PN looking for more subs , that's y you all hear things like PN looking for western subs , yes that's true in reality we are looking , few options are there , May be we go for more advance AG90Bs or any other new platform , I m very hopeful in next 4 to 5 years (till 2020) Pakistan Navy will have new agreement for 6 to 8 more advance AIP eqm Subs from any western country (a new build) ,
There are also some plane to replace AG70s with 2 to 3 used more advance (then AG70s) subs , if all go well , we may hear that news first .

Note: Most important thing here is , Now we are giving importance to over Navy , we are buying and building new Ship and Subs with also trying to have a very good Navy's Air wing . We just need will an have to act fast no time to waist .

Minus 2 german subs... they'll be retired by 2020-25

That is why, you loose all your wars. Wars are not won dying but by killing your enemy.

Tactical retreat is not cowardice, but war time necessity.

Engaging in rescue ops , when your enemy has the tactical advantage over you, as was the case Kirpan and Hangor is not only foolish but suicidal.

Why didn't PNS Hangor pursue INS Kirpan or even linger around when Kirpan returned to the scene in couple of hours ?

But explaining strategy to kid will no brains and just false bravado from watching too many movies, is a foolish endeavor in itself.

As for your "love of killing Indian soldiers" is concerned , clearly you need psychiatric help, you should ask parents to take you to a doctor.

We neither take pride in killing your soldiers or your civilians, but we do what we have to , when pushed into it.

Judging from these war time statistics, and do a damn better job than you!

Most intelligent Pakistanis will agree ( thought you might not), It is better make mistakes and learn from those mistakes i.e loose a submarine in peace time, than in war time, as you did .

Give the kid a break... you're killing him
 
That is why, you loose all your wars. Wars are not won dying but by killing your enemy.

Tactical retreat is not cowardice, but war time necessity.

Engaging in rescue ops , when your enemy has the tactical advantage over you, as was the case Kirpan and Hangor is not only foolish but suicidal.

Why didn't PNS Hangor pursue INS Kirpan or even linger around when Kirpan returned to the scene in couple of hours ?

But explaining strategy to kid will no brains and just false bravado from watching too many movies, is a foolish endeavor in itself.

As for your "love of killing Indian soldiers" is concerned , clearly you need psychiatric help, you should ask parents to take you to a doctor.

We neither take pride in killing your soldiers or your civilians, but we do what we have to , when pushed into it.

Judging from these war time statistics, and do a damn better job than you!

Most intelligent Pakistanis will agree ( thought you might not), It is better make mistakes and learn from those mistakes i.e loose a submarine in peace time, than in war time, as you did .

We didn't lose all our wars. Claiming victories in 47 or 65 is nothing but india's expression of its shameless nature. No country with little bit of self respect would claim victories in these two wars looking at their outcome. India however is a special case. At best they are militarily inconclusive with no clear victor. Indians after centuries of slavery try to salvage some pride by claiming "victories" in its short 70 years period of being independent.

PNS hangor did its job. It made its kill. It found two targets. It killed one. While other one ran away. There is no tactical retreat here. Even few survivors of INS Khukri don't consider it to be tactical retreat but an act of cowardice.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...s-INS-Khukri-survivor/articleshow/7126023.cms

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20110110/main4.htm

Accidents happen all the time. In fact during a war a lot of them happen. You have lost many pilots and soldiers to accident during wars. Who can forget the funny incident where dozens of Indian soldiers were killed by their own and mines during Operation Parakram? It is however a bigger embarrassment to lose a submarine while routine docking at your own port. Anyone except a low intellect Indian would accept it and find nothing wrong with it.
 
Procurement of 8 submarines implies that the Navy has decided in principle that it would procure a very small number of surface combatants in the future. The Navy sees itself as a submarine force for the foreseeable future.

Had the submarine order been around 3-4, it could have been speculated that some surface ships might be procured.
 
By Who??, Pakistan????
Already terrorists and their supporters are getting whipped in Kashmir
The only terrorists being whipped in kashmir is that joke of an army you got.
Procurement of 8 submarines implies that the Navy has decided in principle that it would procure a very small number of surface combatants in the future. The Navy sees itself as a submarine force for the foreseeable future.

Had the submarine order been around 3-4, it could have been speculated that some surface ships might be procured.
They will still procure surface vessels.
 
The only terrorists being whipped in kashmir is that joke of an army you got.

They will still procure surface vessels.
They might get 1 or 2 frigates but not more. I am not counting the small missile crafts.

Anyways, submarines make sense as they have a better chance of survival than our surface ships with very little air defence capabilities. The order of 8 submarines probably came due to the Brahmos missile.

As we won't be getting any Arleigh-Burke class destroyers or something similar, it's better to procure submarines.
 
To add facts show that may be Pak will go for few second hand German Subs from Turkey with major upgrades.

PN is rumoured to be looking for upto 3 used advance subs for purchase to retire A-70s ASAP.
 
They might get 1 or 2 frigates but not more. I am not counting the small missile crafts.

Anyways, submarines make sense as they have a better chance of survival than our surface ships with very little air defence capabilities. The order of 8 submarines probably came due to the Brahmos missile.

As we won't be getting any Arleigh-Burke class destroyers or something similar, it's better to procure submarines.
Also Corvettes
 
That is why, you loose all your wars. Wars are not won dying but by killing your enemy.

Tactical retreat is not cowardice, but war time necessity.

Engaging in rescue ops , when your enemy has the tactical advantage over you, as was the case Kirpan and Hangor is not only foolish but suicidal.

Why didn't PNS Hangor pursue INS Kirpan or even linger around when Kirpan returned to the scene in couple of hours ?

But explaining strategy to kid will no brains and just false bravado from watching too many movies, is a foolish endeavor in itself.

As for your "love of killing Indian soldiers" is concerned , clearly you need psychiatric help, you should ask parents to take you to a doctor.

We neither take pride in killing your soldiers or your civilians, but we do what we have to , when pushed into it.

Judging from these war time statistics, and do a damn better job than you!

Most intelligent Pakistanis will agree ( thought you might not), It is better make mistakes and learn from those mistakes i.e loose a submarine in peace time, than in war time, as you did .
Indians taking credit of PNS GHAZI is just like Pakistanis taking credit of sucides of Indian Soldiers(they have highest ratio of sucide ofcourse due to fear of war) and those two tin cans which were blown up during peace time in their own backyard.
 
Thats not my imagination we are still stuck on man behinde machine things as you know we losing our aircrafts even without fighting against enemy you cant fight with current technology with 1970 or 80 technology. Our goverment is no1 croupt in world if goverment is patriotic with country no problem with getting what i mentiond every year billions goes in crouption if we spend that on our security no one can dare to send tereoristis in balochistan in form of bla or ttp in fata n kpk or mqm in karachi

Ask the kpk govt to donate for nuclear subs.what about the turkey you feel the are also corrupt than us the have no. Of subs not different from us and they have a budget of triple than ours
 
Indians taking credit of PNS GHAZI is just like Pakistanis taking credit of sucides of Indian Soldiers(they have highest ratio of sucide ofcourse due to fear of war) and those two tin cans which were blown up during peace time in their own backyard.
Pakistani navy has no idea what happened to PNS Ghazi
 
Pakistani navy has no idea what happened to PNS Ghazi
We do... and so do the witnesses who were present on indian harbours and saw indian ships sailing hours after PNS Ghazi met the accident....

Not even indian 3 star generals believe indian navy claims.. and ironically indian "Records" on Ghazi were burnt in a "fire" .. more like indian navy burning the reality..

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ani-submarine-in-1971/articleshow/5919209.cms

Now, no record of Navy sinking Pakistani submarine in 1971
Josy Joseph | TNN | May 12, 2010, 02.51 AM IST
NEW DELHI: The sinking of Pakistani submarine Ghazi in the 1971 Indo-Pak war may have been one of the high points of India's first-ever emphatic military victory but there are no records available with naval authorities on how the much-celebrated feat was pulled off.

As a debate rages over a TOI report on the destruction of all records of the 1971 Bangladesh war at the Eastern Army Command headquarters in Kolkata, it transpires that naval authorities also destroyed records of the sinking of Ghazi.

The troubling finding has been thrown up by a trail of communications among the naval brass. Pakistani submarine PNS Ghazi, regarded as a major threat to India's plans to use its naval superiority, sank around midnight of December 3, 1971 off Visakhapatnam, killing all 92 on board in the initial days of the war between India and Pakistan. Indian Navy claims the submarine was destroyed by depth charges fired by its ship INS Rajput. Pakistani authorities say the submarine sank because of either an internal explosion or accidental blast of mines that the submarine itself was laying around Vizag harbour.

According to a set of naval communications made available to TOI by sources familiar with the Ghazi sinking, senior officers and those writing the official history of Navy exchanged a host of letters admitting to the fact that crucial documents of Ghazi were missing.

Immediately after Ghazi sank, Indian naval sailors had recovered several crucial documents and other items from the submarine, wreckage of which is still lying underwater off Vizag.

On June 22, 1998, Rear Admiral K Mohanrao, then chief of staff of Visakhapatnam-based Eastern Naval Command, told Vice Admiral G M Hiranandani, who was writing the official history of Navy, "All-out efforts were made to locate historical artifacts of Ghazi from various offices and organizations of this headquarters. However, regretfully, I was unable to lay my hands on many of the documents that I personally saw during my previous tenure."



Mohanrao went on to tell Hiranandani, "We are still continuing to search for old files and as and when they are located, I will send appropriate documents for your project." Mohanrao also refers to their inquiries with Commodore P S Bawa (retd), who worked with the Maritime Historical Society, to find out about the artifacts. Here also they drew a blank.




What Mohanrao's letter does not disclose is the letter written by Bawa himself in 1980. On December 20, 1980, Bawa, then a commander with the Maritime Historical Society, said, "In Virbahu, to my horror I found that all Gazi papers and signals were destroyed this year. Nothing is now available there." He was writing after a visit to Virbahu, the submarine centre at Vizag, where the documents, signals and other artifacts recovered from Ghazi were stored. His letter (MHS/23) was addressed to Vice Admiral M P Awati, the then chief of personnel at the naval headquarters.




Over the years, in the 1990s, as Vice Admiral Hiranandani sat down to write the official history of Navy, he made several efforts to get the Ghazi documents, records show. In one of his letters to the then chief of eastern naval command, Vice Admiral P S Das, he sought the track chart of the Ghazi, the official report of the diving operations on the Ghazi from December 1971 onwards and any other papers related to Ghazi. But none of it was available for the official historian of the Navy.




A retired Navy officer who saw action in 1971 said the destruction of the Ghazi papers and those of Army in Kolkata are all fitting into a larger trend, many of them suspected about Indian war history, of deliberate falsification in many instances. It is high time the real history of those past actions were revealed. "We have enough heroes," he said. "In the fog of war, many myths and false heroes may have been created and many honest ones left unsung," he admitted.
/////////////////////////////////////


Lt General JFR Jacob, (retd), hero of the 1971 India Pakistan war, explains why the Indian Navy destroyed documents related to the sinking of the Pakistani submarine, PNS Ghazi. Earlier this month, there were reports that all documents connected with the sinking of the Pakistani submarine PNS Ghazi during the 1971 war had been destroyed by the Indian Navy. It is not difficult to conjecture the reasons why. Back in November 1971, our signal intercept units had been monitoring the movements of the Ghazi on her entering the Bay of Bengal. The last intercept we got from the Ghazi was on 27 November. We had been passing on all intercepts to the Navy. PNS Ghazi blew up due to an internal explosion while laying mines off the port of Vishakapatnam, probably at the end of November or the beginning of December 1971. On December 3, I received a call from Vice Admiral Krishnan, Commander of the Eastern Naval Command, who said that fishermen had found some floating wreckage, and that he had gone to the site where the wreckage was found. Among the debris was a lifebelt with 'Diablo' printed on it. Diablo was the name of the United States Navy submarine that was transferred to the Pakistan Navy and renamed Ghazi. Krishnan said he had no doubt that the wreckage was that of the Ghazi and that the sinking of the Ghazi was an act of God. He stated that the Navy was unaware that the Ghazi had sunk. He had rewarded the fishermen who had found the wreckage. I told him that there was no threat now to the aircraft carrier INS Vikrant, which had been the prime target of the Ghazi. On the morning of December 4, Krishnan again called me, asking if I had sent a report on the Ghazi. I replied in the negative, saying that as it was a naval matter, I had presumed that he had done so. He seemed relieved and told me that I should forget our conversation of the previous day and that he was in discussions with the Navy chief, Admiral SM Nanda, in Delhi. On December 9, the Navy announced that they had sunk the Ghazi on December 4, after the start of the war. Later, officers were decorated for their role and the offensive action of their ships in the sinking of the Ghazi. After the war, however, teams of divers confirmed that it was an internal explosion that sank the Ghazi. The log of the Ghazi was recovered and the last entry as far as I can recall was on November 29, 1971. Sadly, that too has been destroyed. The Navy had earlier decided to change the date of Navy Day to December 4, the day they had proclaimed that they had sunk the Ghazi. But I had spoken to the press regarding the sinking of the Ghazi and later published my conversations with Vice Admiral Krishnan in my book 'Surrender at Dacca' in 1997. The Navy then realised that they could no longer maintain their claims to have sunk the Ghazi on December 4. The Navy then went on to state that December 4, the new date for Navy Day, marked the start of the war. For the record, the war started on December 3 at 1800 hours, when Pakistan bombed our airfields. As the old saying goes, truth is the first casualty in war. General JFR Jacob played a critical role in the 1971 India Pakistan war as the Eastern Command Chief.

Read more at: http://www.sify.com/news/the-truth-...king-of-ghazi-news-columns-kfztj3bhjehsi.html


What more?
 
Pakistani navy has no idea what happened to PNS Ghazi
if you study a bit you'll find that it was indian navy who refused Americans and soviets to do inspection of accident side because they were afraid that their lie will be exposed
 
Unfortunately INS Kirpan ran away or else there could have been more accomplishments. :lol:

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-ins-kirpan-turned-and-fled-1024726



Before calling others kiddo learn the fact that there is no "rusty german" submarines in PN fleet.

All its conventional submarines are French and only 2 of them are a bit obsolete. The other 3 Augusta 90B are very much advanced and were built in 90's and 2000's unlike your kilos. Got it??
Sorry my friend 4 Kilos are built after 90s & 2 were built after your Augusta 90Bs.
A person was claiming that IN will have just
3 SSBN against 1 commissioned+3 u/c
0 SSN against 1 or 2 Akulas
6 P75 yes he is right
2-3 P75I may not be he is right in this. IN will induct more P75 or P75I will be built by multiple yards so IN can increase number.
but by that time at least 1 indigenous SSN will be in IN fleet.
 

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