PAKISTAN NAVY SHIPS: YARMOOK-CLASS CORVETTE

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I'm still stuck on the 12 Alper radars. These cannot be for Chinese ships as that would be an integration nightmare / impractical.

4 Jinnah
2 Yarmouk
That leaves 6 Alper radars unaccounted for.
4 new improved Azmat (?)
2 more Yarmouk (?)

It can be for the 4 F-22Ps. These are slated to go through a mid-life-upgrade. The upgrade would basically mean totally replacing the Chinese subsystems (most of them are legacy designs anyways). It shouldn't be an issue to implement Alper in the context of a total refit (BTW the Algerians fit Western equipment to their C28As).

If it's F-22P, then we're left with 2 unaccounted Alpers. I'm sure 1 of those is for PNS Moawin, and since there is still an option for a 2nd PNFT, the last Alper may go there.

 

[Akh1112]

It can be for the 4 F-22Ps. These are slated to go through a mid-life-upgrade. The upgrade would basically mean totally replacing the Chinese subsystems (most of them are legacy designs anyways). It shouldn't be an issue to implement Alper in the context of a total refit (BTW the Algerians fit Western equipment to their C28As).

If it's F-22P, then we're left with 2 unaccounted Alpers. I'm sure 1 of those is for PNS Moawin, and since there is still an option for a 2nd PNFT, the last Alper may go there.

Heck, an even more fun example is the Thai Naresuean class which is a 053H3 with western subsystems. It even uses mk.47 with ESSM lol.

 

[Akh1112]

I'm still stuck on the 12 Alper radars. These cannot be for Chinese ships as that would be an integration nightmare / impractical.

4 Jinnah
2 Yarmouk
That leaves 6 Alper radars unaccounted for.
4 new improved Azmat (?)
2 more Yarmouk (?)

As i said weeks ago, F22P MLU.

 

[Syed1.]

Nuclear submarine means it is powered by a miniature nuclear reactor. Not that it can launch nukes. Even a diesel sub can launch nukes lol

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

It can be for the 4 F-22Ps. These are slated to go through a mid-life-upgrade. The upgrade would basically mean totally replacing the Chinese subsystems (most of them are legacy designs anyways). It shouldn't be an issue to implement Alper in the context of a total refit (BTW the Algerians fit Western equipment to their C28As).

If it's F-22P, then we're left with 2 unaccounted Alpers. I'm sure 1 of those is for PNS Moawin, and since there is still an option for a 2nd PNFT, the last Alper may go there.

Alper Radars have very low range. Only about 66km Max. How can our Jinnah and F22Ps Frigates have such less Range Radars?
https://www.aselsan.com.tr/en/capab...nce-surveillance-radars/alper-naval-lpi-radar

 

[Armchair]

It can be for the 4 F-22Ps. These are slated to go through a mid-life-upgrade. The upgrade would basically mean totally replacing the Chinese subsystems (most of them are legacy designs anyways). It shouldn't be an issue to implement Alper in the context of a total refit (BTW the Algerians fit Western equipment to their C28As).

If it's F-22P, then we're left with 2 unaccounted Alpers. I'm sure 1 of those is for PNS Moawin, and since there is still an option for a 2nd PNFT, the last Alper may go there.

I'm going to have to disagree here. Algerian experience was a nightmare. It is not practical to upgrade the F-22P meaningfully with partial Western systems... just my 0.02.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Heck, an even more fun example is the Thai Naresuean class which is a 053H3 with western subsystems. It even uses mk.47 with ESSM lol.

053H3? I think the Narseuean is actually based on the older Type 053(!). BTW, not only does it use Mk47 with ESSM, but it uses a Saab AMB radar.

I'm going to have to disagree here. Algerian experience was a nightmare. It is not practical to upgrade the F-22P meaningfully with partial Western systems... just my 0.02.

That's why I said a total refit ... i.e., the PN would basically replace everything onboard the F-22P: radar, CMS, ELINT, sonar, wiring...everything.

Alper Radars have very low range. Only about 66km Max. How can our Jinnah and F22Ps Frigates have such less Range Radars?
https://www.aselsan.com.tr/en/capab...nce-surveillance-radars/alper-naval-lpi-radar

These are navigation radars. The MILGEM-J's main radar is the Aselsan version of Thales' SMART-S Mk2. The MILGEM-J's suite is probably one of the options available to the PN for the F-22P (i.e. SMART-S Mk2, Alper, Advent CMS, ARES-2 ESM, etc).

 

[Akh1112]

053H3? I think the Narseuean is actually based on the older Type 053(!). BTW, not only does it use Mk47 with ESSM, but it uses a Saab AMB radar.


That's why I said a total refit ... i.e., the PN would basically replace everything onboard the F-22P: radar, CMS, ELINT, sonar, wiring...everything.

These are navigation radars. The MILGEM-J's main radar is the Aselsan version of Thales' SMART-S Mk2. The MILGEM-J's suite is probably one of the options available to the PN for the F-22P (i.e. SMART-S Mk2, Alper, Advent CMS, ARES-2 ESM, etc).

Yea, my bad, it is effectively Chinese hull only with western systems. Its kinda an interesting solution to save cost, reminds me of those Egyptian ssks.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Yea, my bad, it is effectively Chinese hull only with western systems. Its kinda an interesting solution to save cost, reminds me of those Egyptian ssks.

It makes me wonder (and hope for standardization sake) if the first four Hangor SSPs will come to us clean so that we can fit them with the Agosta 90B's new subsystems.

 

[Akh1112]

It makes me wonder (and hope for standardization sake) if the first four Hangor SSPs will come to us clean so that we can fit them with the Agosta 90B's new subsystems.

Do you not think it could be a good idea to build modified agosta's as force multipliers while fitting them with more modern systems and AShM's (PLEASE PN RETIRE THE EXOCET, its an AWFUL missile)

 

[KaiserX]

Do you not think it could be a good idea to build modified agosta's as force multipliers while fitting them with more modern systems and AShM's (PLEASE PN RETIRE THE EXOCET, its an AWFUL missile)

What makes you think the Exocet is an aweful missile? It is the most battle proven anti ship missile in the world. Used in the falklans conflict, iran-iraq war, etc... and showed it mettle.

I like PNs strategy of using different anti-ship missiles since it would overwhelm the enemies electronic counter measures.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Do you not think it could be a good idea to build modified agosta's as force multipliers while fitting them with more modern systems and AShM's (PLEASE PN RETIRE THE EXOCET, its an AWFUL missile)

Indeed. The ideal scenario would've been to try and 'reverse engineer' the Agosta 90B in that we source the inputs for it ourselves without Naval Group/DCNS in the middle. So, we don't try making it from scratch, rather, we acquire the steel, engines, etc from the suppliers and put together as usual.

 

[Akh1112]

What makes you think the Exocet is an aweful missile? It is the most battle proven anti ship missile in the world. Used in the falklans conflict, iran-iraq war, etc... and showed it mettle.

I like PNs strategy of using different anti-ship missiles since it would overwhelm the enemies electronic counter measures.

Sure, let me explain to you what makes the Exocet awful.

Spoiler, its the seeker and its ecm/eccm resistance.

The latest variant of the Exocet (MM40 Block 3) uses a analog conical-scan active RF seeker. What makes these so terrible for modern combat is that against basically anyone with some form of EW/ECM capabilities, you will have that Exocet whizz past the ship. You can kinda use a DRFM like method where if you know the general characteristics of the seeker(which at this point effectively every threat library should have considering how much the Exocet has been proliferated) you can send a return back in the opposing direction. Look at this GIF:

When the return is at its highest (270 deg) you could in practice match the highs and lows of the seeker but also send a return to where it gives the seeker a false idea of the target, i.e a return that would trick the seeker into believing there is a target at 90 degrees. This would confuse it greatly and give it a very hard time selecting the target, especially if the false return is alot stronger than the real one.

You can read more about the other types of countermeasures against the exocet here:
https://basicsaboutaerodynamicsandavionics.wordpress.com/2016/03/29/electronic-countermeasure-ecm/

Id check out Inverse Gain jamming as that is another common countermeasure against a conical scan seeker.

While you are right in saying that in the falklands the exocet was great and whatnot, that was when advanced ew systems were not as common.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

IMO the Exocets (and even Harpoon Block-IIs) will eventually reach the end of their respective life-cycles. I imagine the new LRMPA would come with new AShMs to replace the Exocets... Atmaca perhaps?

 

[Akh1112]

IMO the Exocets (and even Harpoon Block-IIs) will eventually reach the end of their respective life-cycles. I imagine the new LRMPA would come with new AShMs to replace the Exocets... Atmaca perhaps?

Id hope it would be whatever domestic AShM is in the works. Do we really need another foreigner weapon? Especially since we are actually not bad in terms of AShM development etc. IMO the Exocet life cycle was finished decades ago, the french are just now considering replacing the seeker with an active RF seeker. Do you believe this is the third iteration of this missile lol.