Pakistan Navy released pictures of Zarb anti-ship missile test firing

[Inception-06]

Coastal defence system should be protected with a layered air defence system, as the anti-ship missile batteries can be neutralized by enemy anti-radiation missiles, cruise missiles and air-to-ground PGMs.

I hope PN takes this seriously, and deploys radar controlled AA guns, FN-6, Mistral to anything else they can afford... CIWS like LD-2000, surface-to-air missiles like Umkhonto,etc.

Regarding the video in other thread, I can't see the model clearly.



This pic has been posted back in January by East Pendulum‏. Pics in Post #1 are from the recent exercise.

https://twitter.com/x/status/954320000101236738

@HRK

We have to study and analyse all retired and in-service air defence Systems, from this inventory Pakistan, must try and learn to research and development a Pakistani air defence missile System, it's not impossible.

 

[The Deterrent]

How exactly can the US forbid??? That's what I don't understand. Same thing with range limits, it can only work "any way around" if the trading parties actually recognize the restrictions in the first place. Has china actually signed something, because I'm sure Pakistan hasn't.

Geo-political arm twisting and a bad proliferation record is not a good combination. Its not about signing anything, there are all sorts of mutual "understandings" between the major players. Like China exporting DF-3 and DF-21 to KSA with US approval, because KSA is no threat to American/NATO/Israeli interests. Pakistan is unfortunately the bad guy here, and you don't just go around and arm it with all sorts of weapons, specially not after AQK set up his personal outlet for discounted device designs.

 

[HRK]

Its the same system, notice the exact same camouflage paint scheme of the launch vehicle.

Nope, the range of the system will not exceed the 300km limit imposed by MTCR.

yes system is same but the location is different ..... see the ground area and clouds just above the missile system in the pic posted by east pendulum

and recent pic posted in Pakistan Navy Magazine

btw camouflage of both the trucks are exactly same

4 pages in and nobody's focusing on this? Somebody please give PN the attention it was seeking.
The release of this information was absolutely unnecessary.

I think its a common knowledge that Navy also have Strategic Force Command like other two services ... so I don't think there is any need not to keep it secret

Nope, the range of the system will not exceed the 300km limit imposed by MTCR.

yaap it look like its not YJ-62 but a export derivative C-602 with 280 Km range

 

[The Deterrent]

I think its a common knowledge that Navy also have Strategic Force Command like other two services ... so I don't think there is any need not to keep it secret

Oh no, not that. The NSFC launched Zarb, thats the important bit. They shouldn't have acknowledged it.

 

[Vijyes Yechury]

Why oh why does that have to matter, I could never understand this point. When neither country has signed or recognized MTCR, why bother?

These are just bogus. But tge real problem is about proliferation which will make other countries hostile. Tomorrow there is a war, the proliferating country will also be tangled in it. Even if there can't be a direct attack during war, people will remember it iver generations and become permanent enemies.

Also, the same reason prohibits a country from buying 10000 missiles, each costing 1 million dollar, thus total of 10 billion). Such orders will be refused stating that production capacity is low.

 

[Dreamer.]

Geo-political arm twisting and a bad proliferation record is not a good combination. Its not about signing anything, there are all sorts of mutual "understandings" between the major players. Like China exporting DF-3 and DF-21 to KSA with US approval, because KSA is no threat to American/NATO/Israeli interests. Pakistan is unfortunately the bad guy here, and you don't just go around and arm it with all sorts of weapons, specially not after AQK set up his personal outlet for discounted device designs.

Well you may be partially correct but I am more concerned with the "300" limit, it's quite an absurdity in these times. A missile with a let's say 350km range for example is no strategic game changer in today's world, and not in south asia. And it's not like china didn't do stuff like that before, where americans did raise a hue and cry but ultimately couldn't do much (The famous issue of M-11 and M-9). It wasn't personal nor accurate.

 

[JamD]

Oh no, not that. The NSFC launched Zarb, thats the important bit. They shouldn't have acknowledged it.

Now that you point that out, to quote Danish Ali, "but why?"

Do MTCR rules even allow arming imported systems with parmanoos?

 

[syed_yusuf]

Is Zarb and harba derived from babur ?

 

[The Deterrent]

Well you may be partially correct but I am more concerned with the "300" limit, it's quite an absurdity in these times. A missile with a let's say 350km range for example is no strategic game changer in today's world, and not in south asia. And it's not like china didn't do stuff like that before, where americans did raise a hue and cry but ultimately couldn't do much (The famous issue of M-11 and M-9). It wasn't personal nor accurate.

It is absurd, but its the common figure followed by everyone.
China only transferred M-11s (DF-11s) in the early 90s, that too with 290km range, so that was fine. M-9 (DF-15) was never exported to Pakistan, its a western theory. Pakistan did however get some parts of the DF-11A, on which Shaheen-I is based. Anyhow, at that time the US had a favorable view of Pakistan and this stuff was done under the table. Once we got caught red-handed, the Chinese closed their doors on us.

View attachment 468873 View attachment 468874

Seems like an upgraded model of C-602 was imported.

Now that you point that out, to quote Danish Ali, "but why?"

Do MTCR rules even allow arming imported systems with parmanoos?

Well, if you've been following Pakistani parmanoo developments in the recent years, you'd notice that they've been trying to adapt every system they can find to their needs...like a horny teenager.

MTCR regulations don't apply exactly as they are to Pakistan. Its more like an informal arrangement, mainly focused on the range part.

 

[syed_yusuf]

It seems that PN got an upgraded version of c602 that is longer range that is yj62 with 400+ km range with 450kg warhead otherwise there is no need to hide behind new name and produce is locally

 

[IceCold]

Don't we have boxy canisters for C-802s on F-22Ps? I think you meant the round Harba canisters on Azmat-class FACs. The Harba canisters naturally must have been inspired by the C-602 ones, however there's a diameter difference.

Yes, i think i might have mixed the 2 up. On another note we lack the capability for vertical launch on our surface vessels but do we also lack them on land based platforms? And does a vertical launch offers any advantage compared to this?

 

[Dreamer.]

It is absurd, but its the common figure followed by everyone.
China only transferred M-11s (DF-11s) in the early 90s, that too with 290km range, so that was fine. M-9 (DF-15) was never exported to Pakistan, its a western theory. Pakistan did however get some parts of the DF-11A, on which Shaheen-I is based. Anyhow, at that time the US had a favorable view of Pakistan and this stuff was done under the table. Once we got caught red-handed, the Chinese closed their doors on us.


Seems like an upgraded model of C-602 was imported.


Well, if you've been following Pakistani parmanoo developments in the recent years, you'd notice that they've been trying to adapt every system they can find to their needs...like a horny teenager.

MTCR regulations don't apply exactly as they are to Pakistan. Its more like an informal arrangement, mainly focused on the range part.

Well as you said that MTCR is an informal agreement between member countries and china is not a member, the only tool available to the US etc. is geopolitical pressure & maneuvering. And given the absurd limits aswell as the above facts, adherence to MTCR is neither in line with China's current position in the world nor with its current approach in international affairs.

BTW, just thought of this, why would MTCR even apply to Zarb if its war head is below 500KG? MTCR (if it applies at all) is for missiles that can deliver 500KG warhead to 300+ KM range.

 

[Dreamer.]

Um it works the other way around, if you're a signatory of MTCR, then the limits are off, like India is extending the range of BrahMos.

Actually I checked the mtcr website and there is no difference in the limits if you are a member or not. What's more mtcr is not legally binding even on its member states, it's an informal political agreement.

Anyhow, India increasing brahmos range is either a blatantly open violation or a workaround using a loophole.

 

[Basel]

4 pages in and nobody's focusing on this? Somebody please give PN the attention it was seeking.
The release of this information was absolutely unnecessary.


Nonsense. They just meant to say that the general location of the target was known (like in any other anti-ship scenario, using radar information). The system obviously has a terminal radar seeker to search for, lock and engage the target.


No, just like C-602 and other AShMs, it relies on inertial navigation for midcourse. Usually AShMs are launched towards the probable area the target will be in when they arrive, and when they do, the terminal seeker is switched on.


Don't we have boxy canisters for C-802s on F-22Ps? I think you meant the round Harba canisters on Azmat-class FACs. The Harba canisters naturally must have been inspired by the C-602 ones, however there's a diameter difference.



Its the same system, notice the exact same camouflage paint scheme of the launch vehicle.

Nope, the range of the system will not exceed the 300km limit imposed by MTCR.

Locally developed missile don't fall under MTCR.

 

[Gryphon]

Excerpt from 2014 article:


Pakistan ordered about 120 C-602 anti-ship cruise missiles from China back in 2009. The first batch of the missiles, enough to equip a company, were delivered in 2011. After personnel completed training on using the missiles, the Pakistani government said that the C-602s had already been deployed by frontline naval units.

https://www.thenews.com.pk/archive/print/637281-pakistan-navy-deploys-chinese-c-602-cruise-missile


So, the Naval Missile Regiment is divided into companies, each with a defined AOR along the coast.

Now questions arise, was the C-602 procured as a stop-gap? And will it be followed by land-based Harbah?