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Pakistan Navy P-3C Orion Thread

wrong they have hangers sir but they use them for Z9S

I often see in Faisal Base from Sharah-E-Faisla because at few places walls are quite low but 24/7 guarded.
It is sad to describe, yet they did not built any large hangers for P-3s and Fokkers.
Helicopter hangers are too small.
you can goolgle it right now.
 
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Pakistan repaid or free charge of the new two P3Cs?

It is clearly after receiving two state of the art P3C aircrafts to Pakistan, Mehran Attack last year wasn't planned attacks from US, we guess we don't know who done this previous destoryed P3Cs............If it was US plan on Mehran attacks, why they give new latest P3Cs?

any chance Pakistan investigation find out ?

the new p-3 are a part of on going plan, its not a replacement..

Yes, it is replacements. See the news above.
 
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Pakistan repaid or free charge of the new two P3Cs?

It is clearly after receiving two state of the art P3C aircrafts to Pakistan, Mehran Attack last year wasn't planned attacks from US, we guess we don't know who done this previous destoryed P3Cs............If it was US plan on Mehran attacks, why they give new latest P3Cs?

any chance Pakistan investigation find out ?



Yes, it is replacements. See the news above.

I dont think US have anything to do with P3Cs

However a long shot is that maybe they want to put death switch in it aswell :P So that when they give us a new one its a deathswitch enabled.
 
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Pakistan repaid or free charge of the new two P3Cs?

It is clearly after receiving two state of the art P3C aircrafts to Pakistan, Mehran Attack last year wasn't planned attacks from US, we guess we don't know who done this previous destoryed P3Cs............If it was US plan on Mehran attacks, why they give new latest P3Cs?

any chance Pakistan investigation find out ?



Yes, it is replacements. See the news above.

Raptor raptor raptor.

Don't believe in the news. It is a part of new ones, not replacement. Media just spices things up.
And ofcourse these are paid, no idea about the replacement that we will receive after the delivery of these P-3Cs complete.
Nothing comes free in this world.
 
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I dont think US have anything to do with P3Cs

However a long shot is that maybe they want to put death switch in it aswell :P So that when they give us a new one its a deathswitch enabled.

they can take back like #801 f16 yaar why the hell waste lives :confused:
 
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Two More Refurbished P-3Cs Join Pakistan Navy

A ceremony was held at PNS Mehran on February 21 to hand over two additional refurbished P-3C Orions to the Pakistan Navy.

Dave Allport - 21-Feb-2012


THE SECOND batch of two modified P-3C Orion aircraft were formally inducted into Pakistan Navy Fleet at Naval Aviation Base Mehran in Karachi on February 21. The aircraft, serial numbers 88 and 89, modified with latest avionics/sensors, are part of US assistance being provided to the Pakistan Navy under a Foreign Military Funding programme. The Pakistan Navy is to receive a total of six such aircraft from the US in batches of two each. The first batch was inducted in 2010.

The aircraft has an extended surveillance capability which will help the Pakistan Navy maintain a vigil in its vital area of interest in North Arabian Sea. The area, regarded as an important trade and energy corridor for the global economy, is home to intense maritime activity both legal and illegal and thus warrants continuous guard.

Speaking at the induction ceremony, the Chief Guest, Vice Admiral M Zakaullah, welcomed the addition of the P-3C aircraft, which will significantly add to the combat potential of Pakistan Navy Fleet. The ceremony was attended by a large number of serving and retired Pakistan Navy personnel.

Filed Under Military Aviation News.
 
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These are not "Paid For" aircraft but part of the US Military Assistance Programe. I do not like a lot of things that Uncle Sam does but let us get our facts straight. Aid given and accepted should be acknowledged -- that is the most honourable thing to do.
 
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Nov 16/04: The US Defense Security Cooperation Agency announces [PDF] Pakistan’s official request to buy 8 P-3C aircraft with T-56 turboprop engines, communications equipment, training devices, medical services, support and test equipment, engineering technical services, supply support, operation and maintenance training, documentation, spare/repair parts, publications, documentation, personnel training, training equipment, contractor technical and logistics personnel services, and other related support elements. The estimated cost is $970 million. The DSCA adds that:

“The command-and-control capabilities of these aircraft will improve Pakistan’s ability to restrict the littoral movement of terrorists along Pakistan’s southern border and ensure Pakistan’s overall ability to maintain integrity of their borders. Pakistan intends to use the proposed purchase to develop a long needed fleet of maritime and border surveillance aircraft. The addition of these aircraft will provide Pakistan with search surveillance, and control capability in support of maritime interdiction operations and increase their ability to support the U.S. Operation Enduring Freedom Operations; anti-ship and anti-submarine warfare capabilities; and a control capability over land against transnational terrorists and narcotics smugglers. The modernization will enhance the capabilities of the Pakistani Navy and support its regional influence and meet its legitimate self-defense needs. Pakistan is capable of absorbing and maintaining these additional aircraft in its inventory.”


these aircrfts are going to be given via FMS not EDA . Infact i have not seen a report showing that FMF was doen for it..so in nutshellwe paid every penny for this programme..yes we did got upgradse for f-16s, cobras and tthe OHP frigate for free but not p3c. also there has been no confirm reports that current were replacement..they seem to be continuation of the sale for 8 P3C
 
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Thank Penguin for the details the IN study is quite interesting


From "AMARC Experience"


On November 16, 2004 the US Administration notified Congress that Pakistan was to receive a $1.2 billion arms package from the United States, including the supply of eight Lockheed P-3 Orions which are currently in the AMARC inventory.

Once delivered these aircraft will be used to bolster Pakistan's search surveillance and control capability in support of maritime interdiction operations. They will also provide additional capability in the support of US Enduring Freedom operations by improving the ability to restrict littoral movement of terrorists along its southern border.

If all the P-3 Orion options are taken up they will form the bulk of the package with an estimated value of $970 million.

After flight preparation work has been completed by the AMARC technicians the aircraft will be flown to the Lockheed Martin Company at Greenville, SC. Lockheed will then carry out the final upgrades before they are officially handed over to the Pakistan Navy.

The eight P-3 Orions selected for Pakistan are detailed below :-
PCN BuNo C/n Arrival
Date Previous Unit
AN2P0165 159511 5629 13-JUL-95 VP-92, NAS Brunswick, ME.
AN2P0166 159890 5641 10-AUG-95 VP-69, NAS Whidbey Island, WA.
AN2P0171 159883 5634 21-SEP-95 VP-69, NAS Whidbey Island, WA.
AN2P0174 159505 5623 30-MAY-96 VP-69, NAS Whidbey Island, WA.
AN2P0175 159510 5628 30-MAY-96 VP-69, NAS Whidbey Island, WA.
AN2P0176 159509 5627 06-AUG-96 VP-65, NAS Point Mugu, CA.
AN2P0178 159508 5626 17-SEP-96 VP-94, NAS New Orleans, LA.
AN2P0184 160289 5652 16-DEC-97 VP-30, NAS Jacksonville, FL.

AMARC have previously been involved in the supply of P-3 Orions to Pakistan when they reactivated three embargoed P-3C Orions in 1996 and 1997 after the aircraft were withheld due to the Pressler Ammendment imposed in 1990. This amendment prohibited any United States Assistance to Pakistan if the President failed to certify Pakistan was not in possession of a nuclear explosive device.

Before their delivery to AMARC for storage the aircraft had been used to train Pakistan Navy aircrews with VP-30 at NAS Jacksonville, FL.

Of these three P-3's two remain in service with No.28 Squadron at PNS Mehran (Faisal). The third, 27 (ex. BuNo 164469) ,crashed off the Balochistan coast on October 29, 1999 unfortunately killing all 21 navy personnel on board. The wreckage of the aircraft was discovered 10 kilometres off of the coast in 25 foot of water and was spread over a two kilometre area.

That pacakge was Aid and not payment by us to them. As far as I know and remember, the majority of GOP funds were used to underwrite the Block 52, anacilliary eqpt., and MLU purchase and the 155 MM SP's.
 
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Major post-2001 defense supplies provided, or soon to be provided, under FMF include:!

!eight P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft and their refurbishment (valued at $474 million, two
delivered);
! about 6,312 TOW anti-armor missiles ($186 million; at least 2,007 delivered);
! more than 5,600 military radio sets ($163 million);
! six AN/TPS-77 surveillance radars ($100 million);
! six C-130E transport aircraft and their refurbishment ($76 million);
! one ex-Oliver Hazard Perry class missile frigate via EDA ($65 million);
! 20 AH-1F Cobra attack helicopters via EDA ($48 million, 12 refurbished and delivered); and
! 121 refurbished TOW missile launchers ($25 million).


Supplies paid for with a mix of Pakistani national funds and FMF include
:

! up to 60 Mid-Life Update kits for F-16A/B combat aircraft (valued at $891 million, with $477
million of this in FMF, Pakistan currently plans to purchase 45 such kits); and
! 115 M-109 self-propelled howitzers ($87 million, with $53 million in FMF).


Notable items paid or to be paid for entirely with Pakistani national funds include:


! 18 new F-16C/D Block 50/52 combat aircraft (valued at $1.43 billion; 17 delivered to date);
! F-16 armaments including 500 AMRAAM air-to-air missiles; 1,450 2,000-pound bombs; 500
JDAM Tail Kits for gravity bombs; and 1,600 Enhanced Paveway laser-guided kits, also for
gravity bombs ($629 million);
! 100 Harpoon anti-ship missiles ($298 million);
! 500 Sidewinder air-to-air missiles ($95 million); and
! six Phalanx Close-In Weapons System naval guns ($80 million).

Major articles transferred via EDA include
:

! 14 F-16A/B combat aircraft;
! 59 T-37 military trainer jets’ and
! 550 M-113 armored personnel carriers.


people need to understand what FMF, FMS, EDA means.
 
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What is Security Cooperation?

1. The Department of Defense (DoD) broadly defines Security Cooperation (SC) as those activities conducted with allies and friendly nations to:
· Build relationships that promote specified U.S. interests
· Build allied and friendly nation capabilities for self-defense and coalition operations
· Provide U.S. forces with peacetime and contingency access


What is Security Assistance?

2. As a subset of SC, Security Assistance (SA) encompasses a group of programs, authorized by law, through which the U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) or commercial contractors provide defense articles and services in support of national policies and objectives.

SA programs allow the transfer of defense articles and services to international organizations and friendly foreign Governments via sales, grants, leases, or loans to help friendly nations and allies deter and defend against aggression, promote the sharing of common defense burdens and help foster regional stability. SA includes such diverse efforts as the delivery of defense weapon systems to foreign governments, U.S. Service school training to international students, U.S. personnel advice to other governments on ways to improve their internal defense capabilities, and U.S. personnel guidance and assistance in establishing infrastructures and economic bases to achieve and maintain regional stability. When the U.S. assists other nations in meeting their defense requirements, it contributes to its own security.

Foreign Military Sales (FMS), Foreign Military Financing (FMF) grants or loans, and International Military Education and Training (IMET) are key programs included within Security Assistance. IMET is conducted solely on a grant basis. FMS can be conducted using host nation funds, donor funds or FMF.


Who Manages SA?

3. The U.S. Congress establishes the laws, authorizes programs, appropriates funds, and has an oversight role in SA. The principal legislated responsibilities fall to the Department of State (DoS) and DoD.

The Secretary of State provides continuous supervision and general direction for SA, including determining whether what SA programs a given country will have, as well as their scope and content. The Secretary of Defense (SecDef) implements programs to transfer defense articles and services on a government-to-government basis.

The Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA) is the principal DoD organization through which the SecDef carries out responsibilities for SA. Within DoD, the Military Departments (MILDEP) and other implementing agencies manage individual country programs, including the development of Letters of Offer and Acceptance (LOA), and the delivery of defense articles and services under those LOAs. Financial management of accepted LOAs is a responsibility of the Defense Finance and Accounting Service (DFAS).

Usually a Security Assistance Organization (SAO), under the direction of the chief of the U.S. diplomatic mission, conducts the in-country management of each recipient nation's SA programs. The SAO provides this oversight in conjunction with its host nation counterparts, the country team within the diplomatic mission, the regional Combatant Commander (COCOM) of the Unified Command, the Office of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS), DSCA, and the MILDEPs.


How Does FMS Operate?

4. FMS is managed and operated by DoD on a no-profit and no-loss basis. Countries and international organizations participating in the program pay for defense articles and services at prices that recoup the actual costs incurred by the United States. This includes a fee (currently 3.8% of what the defense articles and/or services cost, in most instances) to cover the cost of administering the program.

When defense articles and/or services are required, the requesting country's representative provides a Letter of Request (LOR) to their U.S. counterpart. Copies are sent to the DoS Bureau of Politico-Military Affairs and the DSCA. The original is furnished to the DoD Military Department or other implementing Defense Agency that will prepare the response in the form of a LOA.

LOAs take three forms:

Defined Line. Certain defense articles and services can be provided only on Defined Line LOAs, which offer items at individually estimated prices and delivery dates. The U.S. Government, where necessary, in turn contracts for the defense articles and services that are required to fulfill the LOA.

Blanket Order. Most repair parts and routine services can be offered under Blanket Order LOAs. These LOAs are perfectly suited for addressing recurring needs (i.e., where the customer will require additional defense articles or services on a periodic or frequent basis). Once established, the Blanket Order LOA reduces the time needed for processing an order and contracting for the items and/or services required.

Cooperative Logistics Supply Support Arrangement (CLSSA). Under the CLSSA, the customer acquires access to the U.S. logistics pipeline for the support of specified end items. This allows supply of repair parts from existing U.S. stocks, without waiting for completion of a procurement cycle. CLSSAs are normally established for countries with well-developed logistics systems and with larger quantities of end items to be supported.



What is Available Under SA Programs?

5. Defense articles, including major defense systems, subsystems, support equipment, repair parts, and publications are available under SA. Defense services, including training in U.S. military schools or through mobile training teams, construction, engineering, contract administration, program management, technical support, and repair are also available. To encourage standardization and interoperability among U.S. and SA countries, FMS normally involves the transfer of those articles that have been fielded by U.S. forces. While sometimes available through FMS, nonstandard articles or services are normally acquired commercially.

Under certain conditions, customers can elect to co-produce or co-assemble defense articles in lieu of transfer. Also, defense articles are occasionally leased to customers instead of sold.
What Are the Differences Between FMS and Direct Commercial Sale of U.S. Defense Articles or Services?

6. With few exceptions, the U.S. does not care whether a customer acquires its defense articles and services under FMS or through Direct Commercial Sales (DCS).

In general, LOAs promote standardization (by providing customers with defense articles identical to those used by U.S. forces), provide contract administration services which may not be readily available otherwise, and potentially help lower costs by consolidating FMS buys with U.S. purchases. DCS allow the purchaser more direct interface during contract negotiation (and likely more opportunity for firm-fixed priced contracting), and acquire non-standard defense articles where special requirements demand tailoring the articles to meet a particular need.

One common misperception: Although the extent of DoD involvement is different, technology release approvals, and third country transfer approval requirements are the same for both methods of purchase.


Where Can I get Additional Information?

7. The following publications are recommended.

DoD 5105.38-M, Security Assistance Management Manual (SAMM)
A Comparison of Direct Commercial Sales and Foreign Military Sales for the Acquisition of U.S. Defense Articles and Services
Last revised: November 28, 2007


confused - good!
 
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Okay,

So how many P3Cs are in service with PN at Mehran?

And how many more are due?
 
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that what i am saying i have never seen any link where it states that P3c orions have been given to us via EDA or FMF..
part of f-16 was with many other things but not the P3

in short only EDA is free
FMF is a soft loan which may be written off
and FMS Is pure sale

and 8 refurbished at cost of 1.2 billion is certainly not very cheap
 
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Pakistan Replaces Taliban Losses

February 26, 2012: On February 21st Pakistan received two more of the six P-3C maritime patrol aircraft ordered from the United States. The first two arrived two years ago. But four months later the Karachi naval base where the P-3s were stationed was attacked. A team of Islamic terrorists easily got into the base and destroyed two P-3s and left twenty people dead. But now Pakistan again has three P-3s.

The Pakistani P-3s are optimized for maritime surveillance with new electronics and the ability to see the results of all sensors on one display. For a while Pakistan will have more capable maritime surveillance aircraft than India. But India will regain the lead within three years. The U.S. and Indian navies will both receive the new American P-8 maritime reconnaissance aircraft at about the same time (2013-14). The Indians are getting eight P-8Is, which will be customized for Indian needs and be slightly different than the P-8A the Americans will use.

The P-8A Poseidon is based on the widely used Boeing 737 airliner. Although the Boeing 737 based P-8A is a two engine jet, compared to the four engine turboprop P-3, it is a more capable plane. The P-8A has 23 percent more floor space than the P-3 and is larger (38 meter/118 foot wingspan, versus 32.25 meter/100 foot) and heavier (83 tons versus 61). Most other characteristics are the same. Both can stay in the air about ten hours per sortie. Speed is different. Cruise speed for the 737 is 910 kilometers an hour versus 590 for the P-3. This makes it possible for the P-8A to get to a patrol area faster, which is a major advantage when chasing down subs first spotted by sonar arrays or satellites. However, the P-3 can carry more weapons (9 tons versus 5.6). This is less of a factor as the weapons (torpedoes, missiles, mines, sonobouys) are pound for pound more effective today and that trend continues. Both carry the same size crew of 10-11 pilots and equipment operators. Both aircraft carry search radar and various other sensors.

The 737 has, like the P-3, been equipped with hard points on the wings for torpedoes or missiles. The B-737 is a more modern design and has been used successfully since the 1960s by commercial aviation. Navy aviators are confident that it will be as reliable as the P-3. (The P-3 was based on the Electra civilian airliner that first flew in 1954, although only 170 were built plus 600 P-3s. About 40 Electras are still in service.) The Boeing 737 first flew in 1965, and over 5,000 have been built. The P-8A will be the first 737 designed with a bomb bay and four wing racks for weapons. The P-8 costs about $275 million each.

strategypage.com/htmw/htnavai/articles/20120226.aspx
 
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