Pakistan Navy | News & Discussions.

[RAMPAGE]

a decent nuke sub costs more than a billion $, and then R&D budget is another issue, the whole budget of our navy is around 500million$(only...literally). how do you suppose we will be able to build some and maintain them?

We can't compromise our 2nd strike capability and money is not an issue when it comes to our nuclear deterrence !!!!!

Anyways Nescom is definitely working on the sub.

 

[S.Y.A]

مکمل طور پر ملکی وسائل سے تیار کیا گیا پہلا جدید بحری جنگی جہاز پی این ایس اصلت ،میزائل اور تارپیڈوز فائر کرنے کی صلاحیت رکھتا ہے ۔یہ جہاز ریڈار اور سونار ٹیکنالوجی سے لیس ہے ۔

seriously man JADEED Jangi Jahaz? it does not even have a proper SAM system

We can't compromise our 2nd strike capability and money is not an issue when it comes to our nuclear deterrence !!!!!

Anyways Nescom is definitely working on the sub.

theek hai yar aap maan li aap ki baat, aap khush hojao

 

[nomi007]

32 ton tug zordar

this is not 1st ship
karachi shipyard even produce MV Islamabad which is 17,200 metric tons

some products are
Merchant vessels

Al-Abbas - first one was built in 1967 for Muhammadi Steamship Company Limited.
MV Islamabad - largest ship constructed by KSEW.

Naval vessels
Frigates

PNS Aslat of the F-22P Zulfiquar class frigate

Patrol craft

Jalalat II class missile boat
Larkana class large patrol craft

Submarines

Agosta 90B class submarine
Cosmos class MG110 mini-submarine
and oil tankers for navy

 

[Viking 63]

Why do we need Nuclear Subs ??? are we going to compete with usnavy or the Russians, AIP is also something which allows the subs to stay in water for 2-3 months without surfacing..

 

[Dazzler]

NDC is a subsidiary of nescom, nescom is an umbrella org that has AWC,NDC, MTC, MSL etc. as its subsidiaries.

subsidiary doesnt mean they work on the same projects as the parent company,,,, NDC has some advanced projects under the hood.

 

[fatman17]

China-Pakistan Relations

•Minister for Defense Production Rana Tanveer Hussain met with a Chinese delegation on Tuesday to discuss relations between the two countries, especially potential cooperation over shipbuilding.[30]

 

[Black Eagle 90]

China-Pakistan Relations

•Minister for Defense Production Rana Tanveer Hussain met with a Chinese delegation on Tuesday to discuss relations between the two countries, especially potential cooperation over shipbuilding.[30]

As being discussed and cleared that China is far superior than Turkey in Naval vessel construction and designing. So why not Pakistan had made a deal with Chinese and also gained some professional help from Japan and Korea to start our own Commercial as well as Military ship building....

 

[S.Y.A]

subsidiary doesnt mean they work on the same projects as the parent company,,,, NDC has some advanced projects under the hood.

but most projects are the same.

 

[copasi]

As being discussed and cleared that China is far superior than Turkey in Naval vessel construction and designing. So why not Pakistan had made a deal with Chinese and also gained some professional help from Japan and Korea to start our own Commercial as well as Military ship building....

Exactly, shipbuilding industry is very suitable for a country like Parkistan

 

[S.Y.A]

Why do we need Nuclear Subs ??? are we going to compete with usnavy or the Russians, AIP is also something which allows the subs to stay in water for 2-3 months without surfacing..

its 2 months at most...and nuclear subs have a larger payload, as well as superior intelligence systems(again because of more space available). but we dont need them, 10-15 AIP subs(nuke cruise missile armed) would be best for us.

 

[fatman17]

Pakistan Navy Orion in Australian International Fleet Review


October 5th, 2013.

A WELCOME participant in the Royal Australian Navy’s (RAN’s) International Fleet Review (IFR) was Pakistan Navy Lockheed P-3C Orion 80 [...]

AFD

 

[Nishan_101]

Pakistan Navy Orion in Australian International Fleet Review


October 5th, 2013.

A WELCOME participant in the Royal Australian Navy’s (RAN’s) International Fleet Review (IFR) was Pakistan Navy Lockheed P-3C Orion 80 [...]

AFD

What does this means???

 

[genmirajborgza786]

@jaibi bro, as discussed I am writing & posting articles on green water navy, i hope this is the right thread
regards

an earlier post by me

experience vs "experience with intelligence"

no matter which ever curtain of reason we find to escape behind the ego (ghairat) of some of our or so-called people with experience or generals, (jarnails) or strategist's the fact of the matter is that we don't have a Navy that can do justice to a nuclear power country , & people that are to be blamed for this are those very experienced general's & strategist's who spent all their life in defending Pakistan (sir'jees or janab's) but still they couldn't come up with an adequate plan to build up a strong naval power that can not only protect & defend our coastlines but also secure our supply routes & here lies the problem because we have given weight to devotion & emotion ,but neglected strategies ., just because a person gives a large part of his life to the force doesn't necessarily qualifies him/her to be the pillar to rely on . we have to understand the difference between devotion & experience & "experience with intelligent competency" or "result oriented experience" , lets be honest this is not the era of "jazba a imani" . ' but it is for sure the age of ship building capacities R&D's, technology, adequate gears, bullet proof vests ,modernized guns, ships, fighter jets, ASMD , SAM's & ABM's in short "Network centric warfare", & that's where we have cheated our selves even today we have people who doesn't understand that defending the coastlines & securing the supply routes are entirely two different strategies altogether, let me simplify it for you, GOD forbid suppose in a conflict there is a blockade imposed on us, then even if we some how defend our coastlines [/B ]still it will not break the blockade ! because our supply lines will still be blocked ,because one of the main objectives of any blockade is to exhaust the country of its supply needs or War resources & other important necessities like Oil, weapons, spares, important necessities of daily life like foods items, medicines enforcements etc's & above all to standstill the Economy & that's where a "Green water navy" comes in, it not only defends its coastlines but also protects & secures its supply lines after all a green water naval capability is a competent combination of both "defensive & offensive" capabilities, & let alone defensive & offensive green water naval power, we don't even have a strong brown water capability to defend us ! & then we see the fanciest of uniforms wore by our officers with medals shining through can literally light a room up ! & we become contended with it, foolish is a word too little to describe who ever gets impressed by it , an intelligent citizen here will always ask sir' what kind of navy do we have ? is it a coastal one , a brown water one or a green water one ? & do we have an adequate ship building capacity for it ? no we don't if truth be told then the fact of the matter is that we don't even have a fully brown water navy let alone a green water one , take a look at South Korea they have a force of 650 thousand plus active troops well geared , well protected & a well armed one then ours from
A to Z, they have an air force of 850 fighter jets, a ship building capacity to envy, & not to mention a "Green water navy" & they are 1,500 sq km smaller then Khyber Pakhtunkhwa & F.A.T.A !

 

[genmirajborgza786]

for those who does not understand the importance of a green water navy, here is a very detailed article I came across

http://www.informationdissemination.net/2010/06/what-is-green-water.html

What is Green Water?

Advocates of building out a balanced force structure consisting of larger numbers of smaller, shallow draft ships to complement a smaller number of higher end surface combatants often use the term "green water" to characterize the environment where a smaller vessel capability would operate. But what does green water really mean? During a recent CSBA workshop on maritime irregular warfare, a lively debate ensued on this issue, without much consensus.

The NOC delineates three categories which one might assume are included to help differentiate operating environments and steer the range of capabilities that might be required by naval forces in those areas: "Blue water refers to the open ocean; green water refers to coastal waters, ports and harbors; and brown water refers to navigable rivers and their estuaries." The distinction is important, not just from an operating paradigm, but in relation to the spectrum of future (and current) naval force structures.

this part is quiet tricky from an Pakistani perspective but is none the less helpful

An advocate of exclusively high end ships would be quick to point out that large combatants are equally capable of operating in coastal waters. Which of course is true, as deep draft cruisers, destroyers, and amphibious ships frequently perform missions in areas near the OPLATs in the Northern Arabian Gulf or within sight of land off various third world coasts. Because blue water ships are capable of operating in coastal areas, one will frequently hear the argument that a force of less green water ships to complement multi-mission blue water ships isn't required

from a technical point of views sums it up very well especially from an opposite analysis in reverse theory, the important element is "that a force of less" "green water" ships can complement multi-mission, where blue water capability isn't required, but none the less should be enough to secure supply lines or hold off an blockade or even offer ("résistance") to some extent

same as above not related, but can help give an idea from a different perspective or from an opposite analysis

Balanced force "green water" evangelists must challenge this logic. In an effort further the discourse, let me suggest a new definition for consideration: green water is a maritime environment in which a large naval vessel is unable to perform effectively due to any number of operational constraints. These reasons could include, but are not limited to:

not related

Draft - The most obvious limitation of large ships in coastal areas is hydrography. For example, the LCS' 15 foot draft opens up the number of ports that the Navy can access globally from 362 to 1,111. Extrapolated from the number ports to actual of square miles of acessible waterspace, a 15-20 feet less draft makes a considerable impact and a sub-10 foot draft exponentially more so. As much as we may want to relive the glory days of WWII and Cold War naval operations, the more likely scenario is that current and future operations and conflicts will occur in the littorals. The ability to operate in nearly every square meter of water is an imperative to exercising US sea power globally.

however I found this part of the article the most suited from Pakistan's perspective

Vulnerability to Sea Denial Threats - Although losing the initiative in naval warfare is always tactically unwise; recent history, culture, and ROE leads one to the conclusion that US surface ships usually take the first hit upon initiation of hostilities at sea. Given this probability, smaller, less expensive vessels should be stationed closer to shore than large ships where land-based enemy sea denial threats such as ASCMs, FAC swarm attacks, mines, or any combination of those may be expected. Although unpleasant to think about, the loss of a billion+ dollar combatant and hundreds of Sailors is much less palatable to the American people than a couple dozen Sailors and a sub-one hundred million dollar vessel. The oft-heard counter-argument is that larger ships are more survivable than smaller ships; in future posts, we'll explore that contention in more detail.

The above green water definition is admittedly imperfect; however the debate of high end only versus balanced force must take into account non-traditional constraints to blue water ship operations in the littorals. A corollary of this definition that favors maintenance of a robust force of large combatants is that smaller vessels are often unable to operate independently for any duration in "blue water" due to considerations such as range or sea state. Clearly a properly balanced blue/green/brown water naval force is in order to deal with the full range of operating environments.

Information Dissemination: What is Green Water?

 

[jaibi]

It's a good post, gen, however, we are concentrating on building an inventory first and then in other sections we would concentrate on possible future directions, this section would be perfect there. Secondly, for the wiki we are looking for neutral articles so it would be great if you could tone it down a bit. It's an important piece, turst me, people need to read this, so I would encourage you to continue.

If you are interested in joining up our PN section of the Task Force you're more than welcome!

@jaibi bro, as discussed I am writing & posting articles on green water navy, i hope this is the right thread
regards

an earlier post by me

experience vs "experience with intelligence"

no matter which ever curtain of reason we find to escape behind the ego (ghairat) of some of our or so-called people with experience or generals, (jarnails) or strategist's the fact of the matter is that we don't have a Navy that can do justice to a nuclear power country , & people that are to be blamed for this are those very experienced general's & strategist's who spent all their life in defending Pakistan (sir'jees or janab's) but still they couldn't come up with an adequate plan to build up a strong naval power that can not only protect & defend our coastlines but also secure our supply routes & here lies the problem because we have given weight to devotion & emotion ,but neglected strategies ., just because a person gives a large part of his life to the force doesn't necessarily qualifies him/her to be the pillar to rely on . we have to understand the difference between devotion & experience & "experience with intelligent competency" or "result oriented experience" , lets be honest this not the era of "jazba a imani" . ' but it is for sure the age of ship building capacities R&D's, technology, adequate gears, bullet proof vests ,modernized guns, ships, fighter jets, ASMD , SAM's & ABM's in short "Network centric warfare", & that's where we have cheated our selves even today we have people who doesn't understand that defending the coastlines & securing the supply routes are entirely two different strategies altogether, let me simplify it for you, GOD forbid suppose in a conflict there is a blockade imposed on us, then even if we some how defend our coastlines [/B ]still it will not break the blocked ! because our supply lines will still be blocked ,because one of the main objectives of any blocked is to exhaust the country of its supply needs or War resources & other important necessities like Oil, weapons, spares, important necessities of daily life like foods item, medicines enforcements etc's & above all to standstill the Economy & that's where a Green water navy comes in it not only defends its coastlines but also protects & secures it supply lines after all a green water naval capability is a competent combination of both defensive & offensive capabilities, & let alone defensive & offensive green water naval power, we don't even have strong brown water capability to defend us ! & then we see the fanciest of uniforms wore by our officers with medals shining through can literally light a room up ! & we become contended with it foolish is a word too little to describe who ever get impressed by it ,an intelligent citizen here will always ask sir' what kind of navy do we have ? is it coastal one , a brown water one or a green water one ? do we have an adequate ship building capacity ? no we don't if truth be told then the fact of the matter is that we don't even have a fully brown water navy let alone a green water one , take a look at South Korea they have a force of 650 thousand plus active troops well geared , well protected & a well armed one then ours from
A to Z, they have an air force of 850 fighter jets, a ship building capacity to envy, & not to mention a "Green water navy" & they are 1,500 sq km smaller then Khyber Pakhtunkhwa & F.A.T.A !