Pakistan Navy forces out an armed Indian Submarine from Pakistani waters.

[RISING SUN]

Have I called you ... ?? no .... so plz stop this nonsense



ever in in this forum anyone stop you or your countrymen expressing their opinion .... ???

but any flaming, aggressive or non-respectful post should be tolerated ... ??



what you were expecting the reports should come from outer space .... ???

& it was made clear at the very beginning (within half an hour) that it was 209



it came from Mars .... another exhibition of denial attitude

plz don't quote me anymore ....

Sir, please allow me to post one reply only. You said "has Abing hired me", that was personal remark not in good way, I only mentioned what I understood after going thorugh full thread. on second point I do agree that Indians get much more freedom on this Pakistani forum compared to what Pakistani posers face when on indian forum. If there is flaiming, baiting or any derogatory remark is made against certain, country, religion or faith, certainly there sould be appropriate response and thats what i menitoned in my original post. Third point even when it was claimed that it was 209, still many posted derogatory remarks plus claiming it was 209 nuke sub. And last point it might be 209 sub or it might not be, it might be IN sub or it might not be. As i can only see periscope, I am unable to understand how some one comes to the conclusion that it indeed was IN boat. If there is any audio instructions from PN boats and acknoldgement from IN, then I personally don't have any issues. Rather I will say PN did very vell. Thank you.

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

Maybe there was another Indian Submarine which did penetrate Pakistani territorial waters,
while PN was tailing the first one.
If I ever planned a penetration, then I surely would try to lure all vessels capable of submarine hunting
out of the area of the penetration.

The diversion and decoy tactics are pretty much among the basic lessons for a ASW unit. A very essential component of submarine warfare is how the submarine is escorted from the docks to a point in open sea.For that multiple subs leave at the same time very close to one another, same speed. depth and direction and then they split (in multiple steps) at a point take different routes and return.The one(s) borne for the mission among them stays at sea and proceeds towards its target.
I doubt ASW units were naive enough to do a cat& mouse chase and stay oblivious of the diversion tactics.

It would sit really well (not) with the International Community if Pakistan captures or sinks an Indian Vessel
on international waters, 30-50 nautical miles from the territorial waters of Pakistan.
It is debatable if even China would veto a resolution in the UNSC, maybe blockading sales
of military equipment to Pakistan.

I think PN is much smarter than that.

They would have been in the international waters cant say same for the AUV(Autonomous underwater vehicle) they used for surveillance???

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Kochi/article1025416.ece

 

[Basel]

PN have very robust ASW capabilities and very good experience too, if any one think they can't handle threat of subs in EEZ during war they are living in fools heaven.

PN continues monitor the EEZ with all available assets, including MPAs & UUVs etc. It's not easy for any Indian sub to stay unnoticed in Pakistani EEZ for long, both sides are familiar with each other tactics and capabilities.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

The diversion and decoy tactics are pretty much among the basic lessons for a ASW unit. A very essential component of submarine warfare is how the submarine is escorted from the docks to a point in open sea.For that multiple subs leave at the same time very close to one another, same speed. depth and direction and then they split (in multiple steps) at a point take different routes and return.The one(s) borne for the mission among them stays at sea and proceeds towards its target.
I doubt ASW units were naive enough to do a cat& mouse chase and stay oblivious of the diversion tactics.

They would have been in the international waters cant say same for the AUV(Autonomous underwater vehicle) they used for surveillance???

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Kochi/article1025416.ece

I doubt that the PN has enough ships to cover all of the coast, so even if they are aware that diversion
may be occuring, they have to choose to either concentrate on the diversion,
or ignore it.
The submarine has the asvantage, unless there is something similar to the Sosus chain.

And where is the source for claiming that an AUV was used?

 

[Penguin]

No, this one I'm going to sit out, and wait for you to copy and paste.

Have fun. Bring crisps.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Cardinal,

I wanted to say that---but I held back---. Americans call it showing the right and hitting with the left---.

These encounters are not that simple---this sub could have created a diversion for another sub by sacrificing its position---which could have possibly been much deeper into pakistani water---and if caught could have been sunk..

When you have so many diesel subs---the diesels don't hunt by themselves---normally they move in pairs---keeping distance---and creating diversions.

Myu pakistani colleagues should just hold back on the GLORY lap a bit.

What you are saying makes it more evident---otherwise india would have been screaming murder to world media for having its sub treated in that manner---.



Hi,

Asd another member stated that it was possibly a diversion tactic---and I believe in it more so---. Why would a sub run out of battery power 40 nautical miles from pakistani coastline when knowing that someone might be waiting to revenge the Atlantique---or a simple capture---.

Again I say---there was another sub ver very close to pakistani coastline---and this sub gave it a life line---.

I mean to say---there is no reason for the batteries to run out 40 miles from pakistan coast---. What was it doing that the batteries ran out.

And yes---it should h ave been captured----.

I fear, dear MK, you and @A.P. Richelieu , his grey eminence, are correct. This appears to be indeed a diversion tactic...

Wonder, what got away...might be nuclear sub... the enemy subs then were working as tag team... wingman 'sacrificed' to let the real deal do what it was supposed to do.

I hope someone from PNS pay attention to both of your views. Very insightful.

I just hope this escalation business just fades away... only ill will come out of it.

Pak must hope for the good and prepare for the worst. Next time PNS must take appropriate action... otherwise, PNS might find sensors within the Pak waters.

I think the subs were either laying mines or placing under water sensors...

@A.P. Richelieu , @MastanKhan you take on this thought?

 

[HRK]

please allow me to post one reply only. You said "has Abing hired me", that was personal remark notin good way

plz read complete sentence ....

Is he hired you ... ??? I think not .... so plz don't intercede on his behalf ....

don't make issue out of nothing ....

THIS IS MY FINAL POST ON THIS ISSUE WITH YOU ......

regards,

 

[Penguin]

Might be, but I am more inclined to it simply needing to snorkel due to its wish to extend its range and/or bad batteries. It simply was caught at the wrong time.. it was snorkelling, its diesel was picked up from a distance and our ship reacted.
The 209 is simply incapable of transiting on batteries for a long time from what I gather unlike the AIPs and in this case a ship having undergone a refit back in the mid 90's is probably not with the best of battery performance.

Where is our resident merman @Penguin ? Your thoughts?

I'm not waisting time in this thread, considering the attitude I'm getting from 3 specific people, with huge chips on their shoulder and/or too much ego. Have a nice day (I'm spending my time on more pleasent things)

 

[Arsalan]

PN have very robust ASW capabilities and very good experience too, if any one think they can't handle threat of subs in EEZ during war they are living in fools heaven.

PN continues monitor the EEZ with all available assets, including MPAs & UUVs etc. It's not easy for any Indian sub to stay unnoticed in Pakistani EEZ for long, both sides are familiar with each other tactics and capabilities.

ANDDDD Years of shadowing have given both enough knowledge of radar and sonar signature of the other!!!

 

[RISING SUN]

It depends what regularly means for you...The Indian Type 209 has bigger batteries generating more power that the other variants.. so 4 or 5 days if moving at minimum or low speed is quite possible

Sorry but it's 24-48 hours maximum limit due to lack of not only fresh air but also due to CO2 congestion.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

I fear, dear MK, you and @A.P. Richelieu , his grey eminence, are correct. This appears to be indeed a diversion tactic...

Wonder, what got away...might be nuclear sub... the enemy subs then were working as tag team... wingman 'sacrificed' to let the real deal do what it was supposed to do.

I hope someone from PNS pay attention to both of your views. Very insightful.

I just hope this escalation business just fades away... only ill will come out of it.

Pak must hope for the good and prepare for the worst. Next time PNS must take appropriate action... otherwise, PNS might find sensors within the Pak waters.

I think the subs were either laying mines or placing under water sensors...

@A.P. Richelieu , @MastanKhan you take on this thought?

I doubt it makes sense to put mines in International waters, maybe sensors,
but signal analysis and mapping the sea floor is useful.

 

[MastanKhan]

I doubt it makes sense to put mines in International waters, maybe sensors,
but signal analysis and mapping the sea floor is useful.

Hi,

That is why the capture of this sub was very important---it should have been captured---inspected and released.

 

[Mrc]

Hi,

That is why the capture of this sub was very important---it should have been captured---inspected and released.

It would be against international norms to attack once it surfaced and declared it self...no need to committ a war crime here

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

It would be against international norms to attack once it surfaced and declared it self...no need to committ a war crime here

For an attack to be legal, it has to be within Pakistan territorial waters.

That brings up an interesting question.
If an enemy is inside Your territory, and You fire a missile that locks on the enemy,
but before it hits, the enemy moves outside Your territory.
Is that a legal kill?

Probably more realistic to happen with aircraft (Russian Su-24 in Syria a good example)

 

[SQ8]

Now only they change the topic to diesel sub ,yesterday it was nuke sub .And if it was a ordinary sub ,I agreed.
There was no chest thump or ranting about it .My point was absolutely clear .
Topic says that it was an Indian nuke sub and you knows that is just ridiculous .

Yes it is ridiculous, I stated it, other's stated it and move on. Do you have a contract from the GoI to slam your keyboard keys to somehow refute every post made by a Pakistani?
Agree to disagree and move on.

I'm not waisting time in this thread, considering the attitude I'm getting from 3 specific people, with huge chips on their shoulder and/or too much ego. Have a nice day (I'm spending my time on more pleasent things)

Well, I would suggest that you state your point and then move on. None of us have contracts to post here and at I dgaf about anyone's opinion unless its weighed with logic. Sadly, the agree to disagree philosophy is left ignored here by 99%.