ISI-1
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2016
- Messages
- 176
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
KHAYR MUBARAK to you and all Pakistanis and Muslims the world over!
Last edited:
Pakistan Navy Commissions new Naval Base PNS HAMEED
- Thread starter Zarvan
- Start date
KHAYR MUBARAK to you and all Pakistanis and Muslims the world over!
ghazi52
PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2007
- Messages
- 102,926
- Reaction score
- 106
- Country
- Location
Only 3 nations had ELF capability in 2013.The US, Russia, and India are the only nations known to have constructed ELF communication as apparent from cited research publication and patents on ELF technology.
Since then Israel,EU,China may have acquired the capability.
Pakistan have probably procured VLF from china so you may have access to export variant of ELF in near future.
VLF can be heard only to the depth of 20 meters while ELF can go further down these are good for second strike capabilities .you can get around this by having the sub come up at selected times and you can fool the enemy by having more than one sub at different times.
Since then Israel,EU,China may have acquired the capability.
Pakistan have probably procured VLF from china so you may have access to export variant of ELF in near future.
VLF can be heard only to the depth of 20 meters while ELF can go further down these are good for second strike capabilities .you can get around this by having the sub come up at selected times and you can fool the enemy by having more than one sub at different times.
Fenrir
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2015
- Messages
- 1,291
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
Dude, this isn't something you just slap onto a submarine and call it a day. ELF and VLF transmitters are massive, expensive multi-kilometer facilities. Take Clam Lake for instance:
Those two right of ways to the right of the main building have two 14 mile long ground dipoles used for transmitting messages. The facility also has one 28 mile dipole. The ends of the transmission lines were grounded by 1 to 3 miles of buried copper cable and ground rods, later replaced by arrays of electrodes in deep 300 ft. boreholes. That's a colossal amount of space, time and money being put into a single facility, not to mention the amount of copper, which isn't cheap either.
The power requirements of the Clam Lake facility mandated the use of its own electrical supply system.
Clam Lake even had its own city!!
The entire array complex was hundreds of kilometers, featured a city used specifically for Navy personal and required its own powerplant. These aren't things you just export. It's not a table from Ikea.
The Noviken tower-less VLF array is several kilometers long with the longest of the three line being 2700 meters and also has high power requirements. Norway has hundreds of VLF arrays, but they were funded by NATO and the US for communication with submarines in the North Atlantic and Arctic Oceans.
Export version my behind, these are massive and costly investments and there's a reason nations use smaller VLF arrays versus the massive ELF ones. China'd need to export an entire city and its infrastructure - roads, housing, food and water, power generation - along with the technical knowhow and infrastructure for the ELF array and that's a costly investment.
Last edited by a moderator:
monitor
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2007
- Messages
- 8,570
- Reaction score
- 7
- Country
- Location
Some qoute from wiki will give us an idea as @Technogaianist mention ,how big the project might be. If Pakistan really install this kind of VLG ELF facilities without any previous news then Navy have done very important work without any footprints.
Project Sanguine
Clam Lake, Wisconsin ELF transmitter in 1982, part of Project ELF, the downsized successor to Sanguine. Sections of the right of ways for the power lines that make up the two 14-mile-long ground dipole antennas can be seen passing through the forest in lower left.
Project Sanguine was a U.S. Navy project, proposed in 1968 and only implemented in a more limited form, to create a hardenedextremely low frequency (ELF) radiotransmitter facility in Wisconsin to communicate with deeply submerged submarines.[1][2][3] The originally proposed system would have a giant "antenna" consisting of 6000 miles of buried cables in a rectangular grid covering 22,500 square miles, 40% of the state of Wisconsin,[1]powered by 100 underground power plants in concrete bunkers.[2][3] The cables weregrounded at their ends, and loops of AC electric current flowed deep in the ground between the ends of the cable, generating ELF waves; this is called a ground dipole. The original design was projected to cost billions[4] and consume 800 megawatts of power.[1][5] The goal was a system that could transmit tactical orders one-way to U.S. nuclear submarines anywhere in the world, and survive a direct nuclear attack.[2]
The project was controversial from the start and was attacked by politicians, antiwar andenvironmental groups concerned about the effects of high ground currents and electromagnetic fields on the environment.[2][3][6][7] The nuclear survivability of the system was made doubtful by Soviet development of MIRV ballistic missiles.[3]After an attempt to resite the project in theLlano Uplift of Texas[8] was also stopped by public opposition,[3] the Navy abandoned Sanguine and proposed a series of increasingly modest variants: Project Seafarer (1975), Austere ELF (1978), and finally Project ELF (1981), which was constructed.[3][5] The system became operational in 1989, and was used until 2004, when it became obsolete and was shut down.
Project ELFEdit
Map showing location of the US Navy ELF transmitters. The red lines show the paths of the ground dipole antennas. The Clam Lake facility (left) had two crossed 14 mi. ground dipoles. The Republic facility had two 14 mi. dipoles oriented east-west, and one 28 mi. dipole oriented north-south.
The scaled-down system the Navy eventually constructed, called Project ELF, began testing in 1982 and became operational in 1989.[9] It consisted of two transmitter facilities, one atClam Lake, Wisconsin and one at Republic, Michigan.[9] with a total of 84 miles[10] of above-ground transmission line antenna. The two transmitters normally operated synchronized together as one antenna for greater range, but could also operate independently. The scaled down system was not designed to survive a nuclear attack.
The Clam Lake facility, which served as the test site and was originally called the Wisconsin Test Facility (WTF) consisted of two 14-mile (24 km) transmission line antennas (called ground dipoles) in the shape of a cross, with the transmitter station at their intersection.[1][11] The Republic facility consisted of three transmission lines, two 14-mile and one 28-mile,[1] in the shape of the letter "F" (the shape is not significant and was dictated by land availability).[11] The lines, made of 1.5 cm aluminum cable supported on insulators on 40 ft. wooden utility poles, resembled ordinary power transmission lines.[2] The ends of the transmission lines were grounded by 1 to 3 miles of buried copper cable and ground rods,[2] later replaced by arrays of electrodes in deep 300 ft. boreholes[1] The transmitters sentalternating currents of 300 amperes through the lines, which passed through the buried electrodes deep into the Earth.[2]
Clam Lake ground dipole antenna, showing how it works. The alternating current I in the line is shown flowing in only one direction for clarity.
The transmitters operated at a frequency of 76 Hz in the extremely low frequency band, with an alternate capability at 45 Hz[2] and used a combined power of 2.6 megawatts.[5]They were able to communicate with submarines over about half the world's surface. The system transmitted continuously, 24 hours a day, sending an "idle" message when it was not being used, so that submarines could verify they were within communication range.[9][11]
Because of the extremely small bandwidth of the ELF band, the transmitters had a very slow data rate. They couldn't transmit voice (audio) but only short coded text messages of a few letters.[5][10] Reportedly it took 15 minutes to transmit a single 3 letter code group.[10][11] Therefore the system was not used to relay operational orders, but served a "bell-ringer" function, ordering specific submarines to the surface to receive detailed orders by ordinary radio and satellite communications links.[10]
The system was controversial, and was the target of legal attacks, suits and protests throughout its operating life.[6][7] On five occasions protesters cut down transmission line poles, interrupting operation briefly.[7]
In 2004 the Navy shut down both transmitters, with the explanation that very low frequency (VLF) communication systems had improved to the point that the ELF system was unnecessary.[7]
How ELF communication works
Other ELF transmittersEdit
The US, Russia and India are the only nations known to have constructed ELF communication facilities. The Indian Navyhas an operational ELF communication facility at the INS Kattabomman naval base to communicate with its Arihant class and Akula class submarines.[12][13] The Russian Navyreportedly operates an ELF transmitter, ZEVS, located northwest of Murmansk on the Kola Peninsula in northern Russia.[14]
Project Sanguine
Clam Lake, Wisconsin ELF transmitter in 1982, part of Project ELF, the downsized successor to Sanguine. Sections of the right of ways for the power lines that make up the two 14-mile-long ground dipole antennas can be seen passing through the forest in lower left.
Project Sanguine was a U.S. Navy project, proposed in 1968 and only implemented in a more limited form, to create a hardenedextremely low frequency (ELF) radiotransmitter facility in Wisconsin to communicate with deeply submerged submarines.[1][2][3] The originally proposed system would have a giant "antenna" consisting of 6000 miles of buried cables in a rectangular grid covering 22,500 square miles, 40% of the state of Wisconsin,[1]powered by 100 underground power plants in concrete bunkers.[2][3] The cables weregrounded at their ends, and loops of AC electric current flowed deep in the ground between the ends of the cable, generating ELF waves; this is called a ground dipole. The original design was projected to cost billions[4] and consume 800 megawatts of power.[1][5] The goal was a system that could transmit tactical orders one-way to U.S. nuclear submarines anywhere in the world, and survive a direct nuclear attack.[2]
The project was controversial from the start and was attacked by politicians, antiwar andenvironmental groups concerned about the effects of high ground currents and electromagnetic fields on the environment.[2][3][6][7] The nuclear survivability of the system was made doubtful by Soviet development of MIRV ballistic missiles.[3]After an attempt to resite the project in theLlano Uplift of Texas[8] was also stopped by public opposition,[3] the Navy abandoned Sanguine and proposed a series of increasingly modest variants: Project Seafarer (1975), Austere ELF (1978), and finally Project ELF (1981), which was constructed.[3][5] The system became operational in 1989, and was used until 2004, when it became obsolete and was shut down.
Project ELFEdit
Map showing location of the US Navy ELF transmitters. The red lines show the paths of the ground dipole antennas. The Clam Lake facility (left) had two crossed 14 mi. ground dipoles. The Republic facility had two 14 mi. dipoles oriented east-west, and one 28 mi. dipole oriented north-south.
The scaled-down system the Navy eventually constructed, called Project ELF, began testing in 1982 and became operational in 1989.[9] It consisted of two transmitter facilities, one atClam Lake, Wisconsin and one at Republic, Michigan.[9] with a total of 84 miles[10] of above-ground transmission line antenna. The two transmitters normally operated synchronized together as one antenna for greater range, but could also operate independently. The scaled down system was not designed to survive a nuclear attack.
The Clam Lake facility, which served as the test site and was originally called the Wisconsin Test Facility (WTF) consisted of two 14-mile (24 km) transmission line antennas (called ground dipoles) in the shape of a cross, with the transmitter station at their intersection.[1][11] The Republic facility consisted of three transmission lines, two 14-mile and one 28-mile,[1] in the shape of the letter "F" (the shape is not significant and was dictated by land availability).[11] The lines, made of 1.5 cm aluminum cable supported on insulators on 40 ft. wooden utility poles, resembled ordinary power transmission lines.[2] The ends of the transmission lines were grounded by 1 to 3 miles of buried copper cable and ground rods,[2] later replaced by arrays of electrodes in deep 300 ft. boreholes[1] The transmitters sentalternating currents of 300 amperes through the lines, which passed through the buried electrodes deep into the Earth.[2]
Clam Lake ground dipole antenna, showing how it works. The alternating current I in the line is shown flowing in only one direction for clarity.
The transmitters operated at a frequency of 76 Hz in the extremely low frequency band, with an alternate capability at 45 Hz[2] and used a combined power of 2.6 megawatts.[5]They were able to communicate with submarines over about half the world's surface. The system transmitted continuously, 24 hours a day, sending an "idle" message when it was not being used, so that submarines could verify they were within communication range.[9][11]
Because of the extremely small bandwidth of the ELF band, the transmitters had a very slow data rate. They couldn't transmit voice (audio) but only short coded text messages of a few letters.[5][10] Reportedly it took 15 minutes to transmit a single 3 letter code group.[10][11] Therefore the system was not used to relay operational orders, but served a "bell-ringer" function, ordering specific submarines to the surface to receive detailed orders by ordinary radio and satellite communications links.[10]
The system was controversial, and was the target of legal attacks, suits and protests throughout its operating life.[6][7] On five occasions protesters cut down transmission line poles, interrupting operation briefly.[7]
In 2004 the Navy shut down both transmitters, with the explanation that very low frequency (VLF) communication systems had improved to the point that the ELF system was unnecessary.[7]
How ELF communication works
Other ELF transmittersEdit
The US, Russia and India are the only nations known to have constructed ELF communication facilities. The Indian Navyhas an operational ELF communication facility at the INS Kattabomman naval base to communicate with its Arihant class and Akula class submarines.[12][13] The Russian Navyreportedly operates an ELF transmitter, ZEVS, located northwest of Murmansk on the Kola Peninsula in northern Russia.[14]
Last edited:
HRK
PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2010
- Messages
- 14,108
- Reaction score
- 122
- Country
- Location
Other ELF transmittersEdit
The Indian Navy has an operational ELF communication facility at the INS Kattabomman naval base to communicate with its Arihant class and Akula class submarines.
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Ken...7898e2!2m2!1d77.7487845!2d8.4099264!1m0?hl=en
Similar threads
