Pakistan Military Multimedia

[Amaa'n]

Zarvan dear i respect your knowledge on the subject and how upto date you are with latest tech but you are lack the understanding of basic principles ---- you don't look at it with a hollistic view ---- let me pop some questions here for you to answer , may be we can establish if these can replace our hilux:
1) Cost / unit?
2) Fuel Consumption / mile?
3) Engine Maintenance ?
4) Parts availability & Cost ?
5) Top Speed?
6) Logistics & Supply line to service & maintain these vehicles
7) when ambushed by the enemy, can it move out of the enemy line of sight swiftly?

Am all with you if we are to procure same unit for Zarrar ATS or Police / LEA SOTs / Special Ops / CTD who are carrying out IBOs / Raids because these Vehicles will have some limited scope of work ---- what you are suggesting is using these vehicles day in day out ---

When on earth we would get rid of these Hilux and get these instead

 

[Zarvan]

Zarvan dear i respect your knowledge on the subject and how upto date you are with latest tech but you are lack the understanding of basic principles ---- you don't look at it with a hollistic view ---- let me pop some questions here for you to answer , may be we can establish if these can replace our hilux:
1) Cost / unit?
2) Fuel Consumption / mile?
3) Engine Maintenance ?
4) Parts availability & Cost ?
5) Top Speed?
6) Logistics & Supply line to service & maintain these vehicles
7) when ambushed by the enemy, can it move out of the enemy line of sight swiftly?

Sir issue is nobody is asking them to use in Lahore or areas like Multan or Faisalabad and others issue areas and roads where our soldiers face attack on almost weekly bases either IED or Gun attack even those areas these same crap things are being used. We were not facing conventional enemy for past 13 years if we would spent smartly and start let say from 2010 we would have gotten lot more MRAP even 500 to 800 would have done good in those areas.

 

[Amaa'n]

Sir issue is nobody is asking them to use in Lahore or areas like Multan or Faisalabad and others issue areas and roads where our soldiers face attack on almost weekly bases either IED or Gun attack even those areas these same crap things are being used. We were not facing conventional enemy for past 13 years if we would spent smartly and start let say from 2010 we would have gotten lot more MRAP even 500 to 800 would have done good in those areas.

How many IED attacks have happened in Multan, Lahore, Faisalabad ??
Zarvan these vehicles are not for patroling these are for Rapid Response Teams / SOTs ....
they need them to go in Hot areas to take incoming fire & deploy rapidly ---- If you want these vehicles on the street --- i would love to see few of these with Rangers & Karachi CTD ---- they are going in & out of hot zones rapidly not knowing which side they will take a hit ---- thats where you want these to go ----

 

[TaimiKhan]

Zarvan dear i respect your knowledge on the subject and how upto date you are with latest tech but you are lack the understanding of basic principles ---- you don't look at it with a hollistic view ---- let me pop some questions here for you to answer , may be we can establish if these can replace our hilux:
1) Cost / unit?
2) Fuel Consumption / mile?
3) Engine Maintenance ?
4) Parts availability & Cost ?
5) Top Speed?
6) Logistics & Supply line to service & maintain these vehicles
7) when ambushed by the enemy, can it move out of the enemy line of sight swiftly?

Am all with you if we are to procure same unit for Zarrar ATS or Police / LEA SOTs / Special Ops / CTD who are carrying out IBOs / Raids because these Vehicles will have some limited scope of work ---- what you are suggesting is using these vehicles day in day out ---

Waisay sir ji, to great extent i agree with zarvan as if not in whole ops area atleast the most critical areas need such systems or something which can stop 7.62 rounds. A few days back saw video of baloch militants where they ambushed a convoy of FC guys and with just ak47 fire they killed 4 FC guys who were in a double cab. Similarly in nearly major ambushes troops get killed by small arms fire.

 

[Zarvan]

How many IED attacks have happened in Multan, Lahore, Faisalabad ??
Zarvan these vehicles are not for patroling these are for Rapid Response Teams / SOTs ....
they need them to go in Hot areas to take incoming fire & deploy rapidly ---- If you want these vehicles on the street --- i would love to see few of these with Rangers & Karachi CTD ---- they are going in & out of hot zones rapidly not knowing which side they will take a hit ---- thats where you want these to go ----

Yes that is why I said no need to use them in Lahore and Faisalabad and Multan but areas like Tribal areas where we face IED attacks on daily bases or many areas in Baluchistan and few areas in Karachi were IED or Gun attacks are matter of routine we need these their.

 

[Amaa'n]

Waisay sir ji, to great extent i agree with zarvan as if not in whole ops area atleast the most critical areas need such systems or something which can stop 7.62 rounds. A few days back saw video of baloch militants where they ambushed a convoy of FC guys and with just ak47 fire they killed 4 FC guys who were in a double cab. Similarly in nearly major ambushes troops get killed by small arms fire.

Logistically it is going to be a nightmare --- plus it can be used by FC while patroling in far flung / remote areas but again suggesting to use them for city patroling is not a realistic idea ----
I would give an example here of Para Regiment - UKSFSG --- they would go out on long patrols in remote areas, just a single team --- for this they would use their Land Rovers / MRAPS ---because that vehicle could take the hit when under fire ----

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Zarvan dear i respect your knowledge on the subject and how upto date you are with latest tech but you are lack the understanding of basic principles ---- you don't look at it with a hollistic view ---- let me pop some questions here for you to answer , may be we can establish if these can replace our hilux:
1) Cost / unit?
2) Fuel Consumption / mile?
3) Engine Maintenance ?
4) Parts availability & Cost ?
5) Top Speed?
6) Logistics & Supply line to service & maintain these vehicles
7) when ambushed by the enemy, can it move out of the enemy line of sight swiftly?

Am all with you if we are to procure same unit for Zarrar ATS or Police / LEA SOTs / Special Ops / CTD who are carrying out IBOs / Raids because these Vehicles will have some limited scope of work ---- what you are suggesting is using these vehicles day in day out ---

I realize there was a bit of disappointment with the HIT Burraq MRAP, but we should keep trusting the domestic industry. Having failed designs is a natural outcome of serious effort, and every dollar spent - even on failure - is a dollar spent on Pakistani engineering jobs. MVRDE is now designing the Light Armed Vehicle Assault (LAVA), which I suspect will be a light armoured vehicle mirroring those Turkish and South African designs, but being unique to Pakistani requirements. Let's see how that pans out.

 

[Zarvan]

Logistically it is going to be a nightmare --- plus it can be used by FC while patroling in far flung / remote areas but again suggesting to use them for city patroling is not a realistic idea ----
I would give an example here of Para Regiment - UKSFSG --- they would go out on long patrols in remote areas, just a single team --- for this they would use their Land Rovers / MRAPS ---because that vehicle could take the hit when under fire ----

Sir cities where attacks are quite regular we have to use them we are not left with options. Loosing a soldier training new one and other costs are much higher than getting a MRAP and maintaining it

Waisay sir ji, to great extent i agree with zarvan as if not in whole ops area atleast the most critical areas need such systems or something which can stop 7.62 rounds. A few days back saw video of baloch militants where they ambushed a convoy of FC guys and with just ak47 fire they killed 4 FC guys who were in a double cab. Similarly in nearly major ambushes troops get killed by small arms fire.

Exactly Sir even AK results in our soldiers loosing their lives in these areas.

 

[WaLeEdK2]

Logistically it is going to be a nightmare --- plus it can be used by FC while patroling in far flung / remote areas but again suggesting to use them for city patroling is not a realistic idea ----
I would give an example here of Para Regiment - UKSFSG --- they would go out on long patrols in remote areas, just a single team --- for this they would use their Land Rovers / MRAPS ---because that vehicle could take the hit when under fire ----

what @Zarvan wants is a Humvee type of vehicle like the Turkish Otokar Cobra.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Logistically it is going to be a nightmare --- plus it can be used by FC while patroling in far flung / remote areas but again suggesting to use them for city patroling is not a realistic idea ----
I would give an example here of Para Regiment - UKSFSG --- they would go out on long patrols in remote areas, just a single team --- for this they would use their Land Rovers / MRAPS ---because that vehicle could take the hit when under fire ----

Agreed, that is why we need multiple systems. In city area we can use Mohafiz kind of vehicles which are local made and maintenance wise would be easy. Same mohafiz vehicle can be used in rural areas where IEDs chances are slim but ambushes with ak47 are high plus Otokar Cobra 1 kind of system can give good surviability. And for worst areas we can have MRAPs.

 

[Path-Finder]

Logistically it is going to be a nightmare --- plus it can be used by FC while patroling in far flung / remote areas but again suggesting to use them for city patroling is not a realistic idea ----
I would give an example here of Para Regiment - UKSFSG --- they would go out on long patrols in remote areas, just a single team --- for this they would use their Land Rovers / MRAPS ---because that vehicle could take the hit when under fire ----

Every nation is rapidly developing domestic or building under license MRAP's and these are countries not facing proxy war within their borders. Last week I saw Hungary facing no proxy war of any kind has developed domestic MRAP to be used in active service.

I cannot fathom the thinking or make decisions but people across multiple spectrum are realising it's better to loose an expensive vehicle to IED/Ambush than loosing even one soldier due to IED/Ambush. This school of thought will arrive possibly with the change in command in years to come with a certain prolongued delay which appears to be a norm in Pakistan.

what @Zarvan wants is a Humvee type of vehicle like the Turkish Otokar Cobra.

HUMVEE was a death trap replaced by MRAP's

I realize there was a bit of disappointment with the HIT Burraq MRAP, but we should keep trusting the domestic industry. Having failed designs is a natural outcome of serious effort, and every dollar spent - even on failure - is a dollar spent on Pakistani engineering jobs. MVRDE is now designing the Light Armed Vehicle Assault (LAVA), which I suspect will be a light armoured vehicle mirroring those Turkish and South African designs, but being unique to Pakistani requirements. Let's see how that pans out.

If we can get assistance with building a good V shaped hull from South Africa as it's the most vital component in the MRAP then rest we can do ourselves!

 

[Amaa'n]

Every nation is rapidly developing domestic or building under license MRAP's and these are countries not facing proxy war within their borders. Last week I saw Hungary facing no proxy war of any kind has developed domestic MRAP to be used in active service.

I cannot fathom the thinking or make decisions but people across multiple spectrum are realising it's better to loose an expensive vehicle to IED/Ambush than loosing even one soldier due to IED/Ambush. This school of thought will arrive possibly with the change in command in years to come with a certain prolongued delay which appears to be a norm in Pakistan.

agreed, but it requires some time to go mainstream, also it will have some specified role in the military, @Zarvan saying that We are to replace entire fleet of Daala is a far fetched idea

 

[Path-Finder]

agreed, but it requires some time to go mainstream, also it will have some specified role in the military, @Zarvan saying that We are to replace entire fleet of Daala is a far fetched idea

It is a gradual process. But there is an urgent need in hot areas. Small off the shelf purchases with local production for long term would be great. Great thing is due to numerous source's available for MRAP hopefully it's not too difficult.

 

[Talon]

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[Amaa'n]

@RescueRanger not sure if you are still around but one question ---- why is that in Police ATS drills they lack that crispiness in their movements when raiding a compound or a building that we see with Military ---- I mean I have found Military excercises / drills way more systematic then the ones done by Police ---- approaching a corner, moving around, taking point ----- why this crispiness / sharpness is missing with Police?