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Pakistan might be considering opting for 18 more F16 Block C/D

Please.................go ahead and enlighten me...................

there are only so many times I will curb my enthusiasm.

First tell me, did you even read or try to understand what every one else was saying ?

You should have given up when were hinting that you should.

before I go ahead, please do tell me what your age is and what is your profession.

:cheers:
 
I don't know why some members here are emphasizing on 'kill switches' of some kind to make the aircraft go bust. That is something completely stupendous to do, even if you have this level of technology installed on a plane. You don't wanna lose a customer, better to say some minor glitch happened and we're investigating than press a switch that magically busts the aircraft up.

Consider this, rather than making 'one size fits all' button, why can't some fellow members here, comprehend the fact that there could be other measures that could possibly render the F16 as good as a passenger jet. If, for example, 'v' 'w' 'x' happen then 'y' would happen and if 'w' 'x' 'y' happened then 'z' would happen. Why do you think the 'kill switch' is the ultimate choice. There could be a horde of problems associated, potentially relating to targeting, navigation, missile launch sequences, etc. etc. The possibilities of potential exploits could be very real and certainly would not be limited to a 'kill switch'.

So fact of the matter is, we shouldn't let our passion and enthusiasm blind our logic. In the end, everyone's human and humans do make mistakes. I certainly hope that the PAF thoroughly reviews the situation at hand and assess their capability of harnessing such a jet completely independently, without going by anyone's rule-book or code of usage, for a jet that 'we' rightfully own, before ordering more of these new F16s.
 
The kind of mechanism being talked about is very much possible. Not just possible, it a very simple thing. Even I can make one provided I get access to satellite links. The Americans have them though.

This mechanism could be linked to the avionics. It would activate itself as soon as the plane powers up. As soon as the aircraft goes out of Pakistani territory, it could transmit a signal to the base in US and notify its current position, type and number of missile. It can even send back the course of the flight, giving an idea of where the plane is headed.
The mechanism could then deactivate missile firing, or even limit the thrust, or activate false alarms indicating engine failing or some other problem. Of course they wouldn't just stop the plane midway, although its pretty much possible.

Also, if integrated into avionics, it would be impossible to remove the mechanism without changing the avionics from ground up.

My 2 cents

B.S usa or any other jet seller know thats jets are bound to be used against enemy and not to sit in hangers.
And there are no such kill switches its just a rumour spread by some moron.
Try googling for kill switches on jets.U wont find crap.
 
Lol do u thnk they will not w8 for the ryt tym to do it? they will crash aircraft b4 any major war or scenario so PAF came to know and will stop buying american tech which will hurt american defence industry lol dun u thnk if they have them on aircrafts they will use in some case of war b/w Pak and india or Pak and israel.

Remeber one thng u cant ever trust uncle sam as they have decievd us in past and also decievd many other countries like Iraq,Afghanistan n u keep counting

We have used American weaponry extensively in wars against India...............65: Patton Tank and F-86 Sabres.................71:F-104, B-57, F-86 and Patton Tank.
Why hasn't the "kill switch ever been used before ?
Uncle Sam may be a deceiver but he isn't a magician..........
 
there are only so many times I will curb my enthusiasm.

First tell me, did you even read or try to understand what every one else was saying ?

You should have given up when were hinting that you should.

before I go ahead, please do tell me what your age is and what is your profession.

:cheers:

Again my question remains unanswered.................
 
Mercenary what you want tornado or eurofighter avionics into Thunder? lol
asking for German avionics is not a bad thing getting funds out of govt is the hardest part and on a 20 million dollars plane u don't add avionics of 50 million dollars. we might get a vote from Germans or Italians..the rest would vote against and sales would be blocked.
 
I don't know why some members here are emphasizing on 'kill switches' of some kind to make the aircraft go bust. That is something completely stupendous to do, even if you have this level of technology installed on a plane. You don't wanna lose a customer, better to say some minor glitch happened and we're investigating than press a switch that magically busts the aircraft up.

Consider this, rather than making 'one size fits all' button, why can't some fellow members here, comprehend the fact that there could be other measures that could possibly render the F16 as good as a passenger jet. If, for example, 'v' 'w' 'x' happen then 'y' would happen and if 'w' 'x' 'y' happened then 'z' would happen. Why do you think the 'kill switch' is the ultimate choice. There could be a horde of problems associated, potentially relating to targeting, navigation, missile launch sequences, etc. etc. The possibilities of potential exploits could be very real and certainly would not be limited to a 'kill switch'.

So fact of the matter is, we shouldn't let our passion and enthusiasm blind our logic. In the end, everyone's human and humans do make mistakes. I certainly hope that the PAF thoroughly reviews the situation at hand and assess their capability of harnessing such a jet completely independently, without going by anyone's rule-book or code of usage, for a jet that 'we' rightfully own, before ordering more of these new F16s.

This shows u havent come across the previous posts ..My advice willbe that first read all the posts thn post your comments ...the thng u are talking about was previously asked and i replied on that ....Kindly go back to previous page and read my post
 
there are only so many times I will curb my enthusiasm.

First tell me, did you even read or try to understand what every one else was saying ?

You should have given up when were hinting that you should.

before I go ahead, please do tell me what your age is and what is your profession.

:cheers:


buddy dun worry he will not agree... :cheers:
 
buddy dun worry he will not agree... :cheers:

Your posts have lots of sarcasm but no material, if you are aware of the existence of kill switch then please prove it, if it's just another "Zionist Conspiracy" then please spare me the headache.............
 
Hi,

How old are you kids---you are totally destroying the reputation of this board---if it was upto me, I would terminate your standings from this board so as not to cause further embarrassment to you teenagers.

Pak will use its weapons systems as it deems fit against its enemies. The U S has never sold us a lemon and we don't anticipate on getting one.

Kill switch on one plane will totally destroy the export market for everything else---have you kids ever thought about that.
 
A 20 Million Dollar plane that can be turned off by flipping a switch? No such thing exists.

The United States imposed sanctions on Pakistan in 1989/90 under the Pressler Amendment. At that time, the PAF operated two fully fledged squadrons of F-16s. If there was such a thing as a kill switch, or if there were a way to stop our F-16s from performing operational tasks, why did they bother going through years of sanctions and spare parts restrictions etc? They could have just as easily grounded our entire fleet and we wouldn't have been able to do anything about it. Despite this, throughout the 90s, the PAF conducted regular operations with those F-16s, took part in fire demonstrations, conducted exercises and on and on.

Not only Pakistan, but the Iranian Air Force too used their F-14 Tomcats until they had absolutely no way of repairing them, at which point they took them apart for reverse engineering. Why the heck would the United States not flip the "kill switch" on them, and drop them out of the skies?

The kind of mechanism being talked about is very much possible. Not just possible, it a very simple thing. Even I can make one provided I get access to satellite links. The Americans have them though.
Americans have satellite technology, no doubt. They may even be able to embed some sort of critical shutdown deep inside their aircraft, but you can't transmit a signal to a satellite using an piece of technology embedded deep within the aircraft without it being detected, unless you assume that the people operating the aircraft are completely illiterate. If a kill switch existed deep within every aircraft, someone would have to manually flip it, which defeats the purpose of such a system. Also, all electronic systems within an aircraft can be replaced or, in dire circumstances (which is what War is), hacked. If Pakistan ever went to War with the US, I doubt we would still consider ourselves bound by contract to not reverse engineer the aircraft.

But, for the sake of argument, let's assume this could be possible technologically. It would still be impossible to implement in the practical world. The defence industry is the largest source of foreign income for the United States. If any such "kill switch" is detected in any one of their products, the entire industry will collapse within a matter of months. If the PAF, for example, even smelled that the aircraft could be turned off remotely, they would never buy it. If India even got a sniff of something of this sort, Lockheed Martin and Boeing could kiss the $10 Billion MMRCA goodbye. The United Kingdom, Italy, the Netherlands, Canada, Turkey, Australia, Norway, Denmark, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Japan, Brazil, and so many more countries around the world would never, ever procure another piece of defence technology from the US if this were even remotely true. This would be more disastrous for the US than any possible War they could get involved in today.

In other words, America's economy is directly linked with the well being of their defence indusry, and any move that would bring the industry down would be disastrous for the US. The United States would rather go to war against Pakistan's handful of F-16s than pay a huge economic price for building such a mechanism inside every, or even some, weapon system. Of course, that's assuming it is technically possible to hide something like this from the operator until the last minute, which isn't the case.
 
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this news came just after 2 to 3 day when i heard that paf has recived FC 20 tech. report and has started to examin it, is it that FC-20/J-10B is inferior to f-16 blk 50/52, i heard the news on Dunyia news i think it is creditable source.
 
The kind of mechanism being talked about is very much possible. Not just possible, it a very simple thing. Even I can make one provided I get access to satellite links. The Americans have them though.

This mechanism could be linked to the avionics. It would activate itself as soon as the plane powers up. As soon as the aircraft goes out of Pakistani territory, it could transmit a signal to the base in US and notify its current position, type and number of missile. It can even send back the course of the flight, giving an idea of where the plane is headed.
The mechanism could then deactivate missile firing, or even limit the thrust, or activate false alarms indicating engine failing or some other problem. Of course they wouldn't just stop the plane midway, although its pretty much possible.

Also, if integrated into avionics, it would be impossible to remove the mechanism without changing the avionics from ground up.

My 2 cents



May be this will help members who think USA can render our F-16's useless by use of some kill switch kind of thing.

Antenna size depends on frequency of communication and freq. bands are sold by govt. of particular country(allocation of band for particular service is standardized worldwide). This means one cannot transmit military data on freq. alloted for satellite TV's. As this will result in interference and both messages will get corrupt and nothing useful will be received.

Even if we assume that very high frequency(smaller antenna) is used by USA to communicate to F-16's, one needs to solve following issues.

Satellite comm uses particular bands of microwaves (microwaves are also used in radars)

Firstly satellites works best on LOS (line of sight). So as a plane moves the antenna needs to re-align itself with the satellite. This in turn would need a lot of mechanism to calculate the position of plane relative to satellite and motors to align the antenna time to time.


Secondly to receive and transmit, very high power is required. This requires dedicated hardware inside the plane.

Thirdly after receiving the message we need to demodulate it and make a meaning out of it. This will require some sort of computer. Also all data communications follow some protocols, just an example like your internet uses HTTP, DNS, TCP/UDP, IP, MAC & Ethernet/Wifi.
All these protocols are either completely implemented in software or some part in software and some in hardware. So this further increases requirement of computers.

USA will also need to fit a separate computer in series to other computers of F-16's or re-write the codes of original computers to kill them when in operation.

So all this equipment I think cannot be fitted into F-16's due to space limitation. Secondly even if they are fitted, antenna needs to be outside the body of plane to communicate.

So it is not as easy as some of the members are suggesting.

Regards,
Taha :pakistan:
 
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this news came just after 2 to 3 day when i heard that paf has recived FC 20 tech. report and has started to examin it, is it that FC-20/J-10B is inferior to f-16 blk 50/52, i heard the news on Dunyia news i think it is creditable source.

Firstly no one knows that what version of j-10 Is fc-20 ,is it j-10b or totally new breed with western avionics all we hearing are rumors we will only come to know when it will be inducted by Paf

Secondly Chinese never expose their systems/tech fully they always make others keep guesing for what is coming towards them

So saying Fc-20 is less capable than f-16 c/d block 52 will b totally childish and premature

Hope u got ur answer

Regards
 

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