Pakistan looks ahead to end of Afghan war

[Abu Zolfiqar]

In my opinion the US led forces would leave Afghanistan within ten years. A Taliban led government is most likely to take over Afghanistan.

if history is to be repeated, which it often does, then you could be right

hopefully whatever happens, it will be in the interests of Afghanistan (and Pakistan too)

The Taliban were overthrown last time because they did not listen to Pakistan. This time when they come into power as expected can we hope that they will be more attentive to what we say?

well the West likes to believe we blindly supported them.....some people have short memories unfortunately. We were very vocal and critical against them especially after the American embassy bombings in Africa under Clinton regime. And we applied this pressure on them (as did Saudis) NOT to provide haven to non-Afghan militants who had more of a global agenda rather than regional one.

they didnt listen.....


and looking to today, we should not blindly support Afghan taleban because that will not be a sound policy....though we should help with the reconciliation process in whatever way we can. It should be done so in a way in which possible bloodshed can be most averted.

 

[Peacefull]

I dont know how much longer U.S. will spend hundreds of billions of dollars on a country like Afghanistan.

Afghan war costs now outpace Iraq's - USATODAY.com


Can someone tell me what's so special about Afghanistan that U.S. (a country with a 12.9 trillion dollar debt) is spending hundreds of billions of dollars on the poorest most backwards country on earth?

One Wikicable said for another 15 years or may be longer....

 

[unicorn]

6 NATO soldiers killed in Afghanistan

KABUL, Dec. 12 (Xinhua) -- Six soldiers of the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) were killed in Taliban attack on Sunday, a statement of the alliance released here said.

"Six International Security Assistance Force service members died following an insurgent attack in southern Afghanistan today," the statement said.

However, it did not identify the nationalities of the victims, saying it is ISAF policy to defer casualty identification procedures to the relevant national authorities.

Troops mostly from the United States, Britain, Australia and Canada have been stationed in the restive southern region to stabilize security there.

This is the largest fatalities inflicted on NATO troops in a single day bringing the number of casualties to 22 since beginning December.

More than 680 NATO soldiers with majority of them Americans have been killed since January this year in Afghanistan.

 

[fatman17]

Viewing cable 08USNATO208, USD(P) EDELMAN BRIEFS ON AFGHANISTAN AND PAKISTAN

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ID e.g. #08USNATO208.
Reference ID Created Released Classification Origin
08USNATO208 2008-06-18 13:01 2010-12-02 21:09 SECRET//NOFORN Mission USNATO
VZCZCXRO2333
PP RUEHPW
DE RUEHNO #0208/01 1701326
ZNY SSSSS ZZH
P 181326Z JUN 08
FM USMISSION USNATO
TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC PRIORITY 1978
INFO RUCNAFG/AFGHANISTAN COLLECTIVE
RUEHZG/NATO EU COLLECTIVE
RUEHAM/AMEMBASSY AMMAN 0371
RUEHKB/AMEMBASSY BAKU 0097
RUEHBY/AMEMBASSY CANBERRA 0391
RUEHKV/AMEMBASSY KYIV 0107
RUEHUL/AMEMBASSY SEOUL 0378
RUEHGP/AMEMBASSY SINGAPORE 0177
RUEHSQ/AMEMBASSY SKOPJE 3384
RUEHSI/AMEMBASSY TBILISI 5602
RUEHTI/AMEMBASSY TIRANA 4520
RUEHWL/AMEMBASSY WELLINGTON 0241
RUEHVB/AMEMBASSY ZAGREB 5501
RUEAIIA/CIA WASHDC
RUCNDT/USMISSION USUN NEW YORK 0698
RHEFDIA/DIA WASHDC
RHEHNSC/NSC WASHDC
RUEKJCS/CJCS WASHDC
RHMFISS/CDR USCENTCOM MACDILL AFB FL
RUEKJCS/JOINT STAFF WASHDC
RUEKJCS/SECDEF WASHINGTON DC
RUEPGBA/CDR USEUCOM INTEL VAIHINGEN GE
RUEHNO/USDELMC BRUSSELS BE
S E C R E T SECTION 01 OF 04 USNATO 000208

NOFORN
SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 06/11/2018
TAGS: NATO PREL MOPS MARR AF PK
SUBJECT: USD(P) EDELMAN BRIEFS ON AFGHANISTAN AND PAKISTAN
AT NATO

Classified By: Ambassador Victoria Nuland, for reasons 1.4(B) and (D).

¶1. (C) SUMMARY. Under Secretary of Defense for Policy Eric
Edelman used his June 5 meeting with NATO PermReps and a
separate session with NATO SYG de Hoop Scheffer to brief on
his May 27-June 5 visit to Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Lebanon
and to urge Allies to contribute more to Afghan police
training and use their political influence with Islamabad.
USDP Edelman said he found President Karzai concerned about
political turmoil in Pakistan and recent border developments.
Meanwhile, Pakistan's new political leadership
underestimates the threat from its domestic insurgency, and
its military is in need of retraining to confront it.
Regarding Lebanon, USDP Edelman was "more optimistic" than he
had expected to be. END SUMMARY.

------------------------
AFGHANISTAN AND PAKISTAN
------------------------

¶2. (C) Under Secretary of Defense for Policy Eric Edelman
told NATO PermReps on June 5 that, after his recent visit to
Kabul and Islamabad, he believes Afghanistan will require a
long-term approach that focuses efforts on improving local
governance and security. Among his findings:

- (C) Afghan National Security Forces (ANSF) are far along
in their plans to assume leadership for security in Kabul
city this summer. ANSF are already providing "95 percent" of
Kabul's security.

- (C) In the next few months, the U.S.-led Combined Security
Transition Command- Afghanistan (CSTC-A) will be short more
than 100 district-level 12-person Police Mentoring Teams
(PMTs). European countries are well-suited for the high-end
training of police, and Germany and Italy have already
expressed interest. Focused District Development (FDD),
CSTC-A's police training program, gets the Afghan National
Police (ANP) to about "the 80 percent level", but PMTs are
needed to mentor them and finish their training. Edelman
reported that on his visit to Kapisa province (in RC-East,
where French forces will soon deploy) the difference was
clear between towns where the ANP was trained and operating
effectively versus areas where they were not and as a result
the Taliban was active.

- (C) Local governance is key to success. USDP Edelman
encouraged Allies to support the GoA's Independent
Directorate for Local Governance (IDLG). The estimated cost
to implement the overall IDLG strategy over a five-year
period is USD 296 million, of which USD 26 million is for
IDLG's recently unveiled Afghan Social Outreach Program
(ASOP) that focuses on developing local governance in eleven
troubled provinces.

- (C) UN SRSG Kai Eide needs support, especially in New York
where Allies should help ensure he gets the financial and
staffing resources he requests.

- (C) The enemy is adaptive. Officials in Regional Command
East and Regional Command Capital have seen an uptick in
insurgent attacks in Khost, Nangarhar, Kabul, and other areas
where ISAF has been successful with its development projects.
The enemy realizes it must destroy what has been built or
risk losing the support of the people.

USNATO 00000208 002 OF 004

- (C) The Pakistani leadership, including the President,
Prime Minister, Defense Minister and new National Security
Advisor all say they are committed to fighting terrorism.
Edelman raised with them U.S. concerns about the peace
agreements in the tribal areas, noting that ISAF already sees
an increase in incidents in eastern Afghanistan attributable
to reduced pressure on militants in Pakistan.

- (C) Pakistan has two fundamental problems: the insurgency
in the Federal Administered Tribal Areas (FATA), which the
political class underestimates because it remains focused on
political machinations in Islamabad; and the grave economic
crisis, characterized by low growth and balance of payments
problems, which are exacerbated by political instability.
Edelman urged Allies to weigh in with Islamabad on the need
for a strong counterinsurgency effort, to visit Pakistan at
the senior level, and to consider economic development
programs in the tribal areas.

-----------------
PermRep Questions
-----------------

¶3. (C) In response to the Greek ambassador, USDP Edelman
commented that he is not overly concerned about the
possibility that Karzai might seek to manipulate local
governance and development programs for his electoral ends,
because his political base and the root of the insurgency
overlap in the Pashtun areas.

¶4. (C) In response to the UK ambassador, Edelman noted that
Pakistani CHOD Kayani has told senior U.S. officials that he
wants the Pakistani military out of politics, but he noted
that the army needs retraining and reequipping to confront
domestic extremists with a counterinsurgency strategy, since
it is currently oriented towards the Indian threat. In
Kabul, Edelman added, he found Karzai eager to divert
attention to Pakistan as a source of all of Afghanistan's
problems.

¶5. (C) In response to the Czech ambassador, USDP Edelman
commented that the U.S. wants to reinvigorate the Tripartite
Commission and has a very active mil-to-mil relationship with
Pakistan. Admiral Mullen and other senior U.S. officials
make frequent visits to Islamabad.

¶6. (C) In response to the French ambassador, Edelman said
that neither ISAF nor the Afghan government has been
successful on counternarcotics, and that eradication programs
focus mostly on small farmers, making some Allies uneasy.
Edelman urged greater focus on drug labs and high-value
targets, such as drug traffickers who are also insurgents.
He pointed out that U.S. Marines in Garmsir District of
Helmand Province discovered a Taliban poppy "agro-business"
had sprung up in the absence of a GoA/ISAF presence. The UK
ambassador added that going after traffickers and high-value
targets has not had a negative effect on local opinion, in
the UK's experience. Ambassador Nuland commented that doing
nothing about narcotics also damages ISAF's image with
Afghans and noted "neutrality is not an option" when dealing
with traffickers.

¶7. (C) In response to the Italian ambassador, Edelman
commented that our efforts to strengthen local governance do
not undermine the Afghan central government because there has
never been a tradition of strong central government. The

USNATO 00000208 003 OF 004

best approach is to improve local governance and then link it
to the central government in Kabul.

¶8. (C) In response to the Norwegian ambassador, Edelman
expressed optimism regarding the transition to the ANSF of
security in Kabul, noting that the ANSF have shown
improvement. Regarding Provincial Reconstruction Teams
(PRTs), Edelman similarly urged a phased transition to allow
the Afghans to assume more and more responsibilities.
Transition will occur at different paces in different places
and should not be viewed as ISAF's exit strategy.

¶9. (C) In response to the Polish ambassador, Edelman said
that Karzai sees two fronts (Iran and Pakistan) to his
dilemmas. Edelman noted that when the U.S. Marines went into
Garmsir District recently, they learned a lot of new
information about insurgent and narcotics activities, and he
is concerned that a similar "blind spot" may exist in Nimruz
along the border with Iran.

¶10. (C) In response to the Canadian representative, Edelman
said that the notion of a unified approach to the Pashtun
problems in both Afghanistan and Pakistan was something U.S.
policy makers had considered, but it would be difficult to
implement on both sides of the border.

-------
LEBANON
-------

¶11. (C) In response to the Greek ambassador, USDP Edelman
said this was his third visit to Beirut in six months and he
said he was "more optimistic than expected." President
Suleiman is now more self-assured than he had been as CHOD
and gave an impressive inaugural speech. Still to play out
is the question of whether Hezbollah over-reached and damaged
itself by taking up arms against Lebanese in the recent
crisis. He added that he is skeptical that the recent
Syrian/Israeli dialogue will be successful given the nature
of the Damascus regime. Edelman noted that the U.S. is
developing a good mil-to-mil bilateral relationship with
Lebanon.

-----------------------
SecGen de Hoop Scheffer
-----------------------

¶12. (S//NF) In his conversation with NATO SYG Jaap de Hoop
Scheffer, USDP Edelman said that he had raised with Karzai
the latter's unhelpful comments in Der Spiegel ("I wish I Had
the Taliban as My Soldiers"), and that Karzai apologized and
claimed he was misquoted. SecGen commented on a similar
interview with the Indian press saying that such coverage
could lead parliaments in troop contributing nations to
question the value of sending their troops to Afghanistan.
SecGen wondered aloud which Karzai would show up for the
Afghan Donors, Conference in Paris-- the erratic Pashtun
politician or the rational national leader. Edelman observed
that Karzai seemed preoccupied with blaming Pakistan for
Afghanistan's problems. SecGen responded that this does not
bode well for efforts to reinvigorate the Tripartite
Commission.

¶13. (S//NF) SecGen reported that attempts to update the
Kosovo Operations Plan had run aground due to Turkish
"paranoia". The Turks have prevented PermReps from

USNATO 00000208 004 OF 004

discussing the updated plan because of concerns about their
relationship with the European Union. SecGen asked for U.S.
assistance in convincing the Turks to be more flexible.

¶14. (S//NF) SecGen indicated that he disagreed with the U.S.
response to Turkish complaints about the possible involvement
of Greek aircraft from a disputed island in the Aegean in
NATO exercises. He is concerned that this could lead toward
a situation in which NATO could never exercise in the Aegean.

¶15. (U) USDP Edelman has cleared this cable.
NULAND

 

[unicorn]

Bomb kills three Afghan children, civilian dies in airstrike

AFP – Relatives gather over the covered body of a child who was killed by a bomb in Kandahar

KANDAHAR (AFP) – A bicycle bomb killed three children and wounded six civilians in southern Afghanistan Wednesday at a camp for returning Mecca pilgrims, as it emerged that a civilian died in a NATO air strike.

The dead children were selling plastic and paper flowers when the blast struck at a camp near Kandahar city, the spiritual home of the Taliban, police told AFP.

Most of the wounded were taxi drivers waiting at the camp, which was clear of pilgrims at the time.

"Three children were killed and another six elders were wounded," provincial police chief General Mohammad Khan Mujahid told AFP.
Pools of blood collected in the car park where the bomb was detonated, an AFP reporter said, adding that pieces of the blown-up bicycle and plastic and paper fragments also lay around the scene.
The bomb was detonated remotely, local officials added in a statement which confirmed the casualty toll.

Separately, the international forces fighting the Taliban insurgency announced that one of their planes accidentally killed a civilian and injured two children in Marjah in neighbouring Helmand province on Tuesday.

The International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) is sending a team to the area to investigate the incident, which happened as the plane supported a patrol of Afghan and coalition forces.
The incidents came as the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) said the nine-year conflict in Afghanistan was entering a "new, rather murky phase".

"The proliferation of armed groups threatens the ability of humanitarian organisations to access those in need," Reto Stocker, the ICRC's head in Afghanistan, said at a press conference in Kabul.
"Access for the ICRC has over the last 30 years never been as poor."
The United States publishes Thursday a review of President Barack Obama's surge strategy announced a year ago, which has seen the US pour in 30,000 extra troops to Afghanistan.

 

[unicorn]

Kabul Says NATO Air Strike Kills Four Afghan Soldiers

Afghan Defense Ministry spokesman Mohammad Zahir Azimi (file photo)


December 16, 2010
Afghanistan's Defense Ministry says a NATO air strike killed four Afghan soldiers late on December 15 in southern Afghanistan, apparently mistaking them for insurgents.

Defense Ministry spokesman General Mohammad Zahir Azimi said the soldiers had left their base in Musa Qala district, in Helmand Province, when they came under fire from NATO planes.

The NATO-led International Security Assistance Force confirmed it carried out an air strike on December 15 against insurgents in the area.

It said a team had been sent to investigate the incident.

There have been at least two other incidents this year when NATO troops mistakenly killed Afghan soldiers in air strikes aimed at insurgents.

 

[Majnun]

The problem with the US war is that, even today defeating the Taliban is seen as an imperative. What the US appears to not realize is the reason that this war has become such a dramatic failure for them is that initially they connected the Taliban with Al Qaeda and claimed them to be terrorists as well. They saw no distinction between the Taliban, desiring to rule their own country in peace, and Al Qaeda, with its distorted and disturbing views on world domination.
When they invaded Afghanistan, they could have quickly achieved success, they could even have kept the Taliban out of power had they limited their search to Al Qaeda operators, rather than declaring the Taliban a terrorist outfit and hunting them down instead. They then made a fatal error in moving against the entire Pashtun population of Afghanistan who were, understandably, not pleased with the invasion and occupation of their land, and instead embraced the Northern Alliance and their puppet, Hamid Karzai, who had welcomed the US to Afghanistan with open arms. And why wouldn't they? This was a prime opportunity for them to regain power in Kabul, which was their sole goal, even if it meant selling their country and half its population to the US. The United States installed this new and grossly unrepresentative government in Kabul, with Hamid Karzai as a Pashtun figurehead. In a move to further alienate the Pashtun majority of Afghanistan, US B-52s carpet bombed much of southern Afghanistan (a tactic used on a smaller scale in Pakistan’s border regions today and achieving the same result), killing huge numbers of Pashtun civilians and destroying livelihoods. It was thus the United States themselves who were pushing the Pashtun into the arms of the Taliban. Pakistan president Pervez Musharraf was burned for saying the Taliban should be considered legitimate combatants in the Afghan war and for warning the United States not to alienate the Taliban and the Pashtuns of Afghanistan by tarring them with the same brush as Al Qaeda. Today those words must be haunting the United States leadership as they struggle to save face in Afghanistan.

 

[Vassnti]

, US B-52s carpet bombed much of southern Afghanistan (a tactic used on a smaller scale in Pakistan’s border regions today and achieving the same result), killing huge numbers of Pashtun civilians and destroying livelihoods. .

I do get tired of this bull **** thrown up every time how about some proof?
Dates and the names of the villages in Pakistan and Afghanistan that were "carpet bombed"

Yes there are people kiled by airstrikes that A. hit the wrong target, B hit the insurgents but caused collateral damage as well, including recently an New Zealander, but to claim there has been and is an ongoing deliberate campain to massacre civilians is a lie, one that i suspect many realise is a lie but still spout to give them selves an excuse to continue to back the taliban even after their deliberate destruction of Mosques and Shrines.

 

[Majnun]

I do get tired of this bull **** thrown up every time how about some proof?
Dates and the names of the villages in Pakistan and Afghanistan that were "carpet bombed"

Yes there are people kiled by airstrikes that A. hit the wrong target, B hit the insurgents but caused collateral damage as well, including recently an New Zealander, but to claim there has been and is an ongoing deliberate campain to massacre civilians is a lie, one that i suspect many realise is a lie but still spout to give them selves an excuse to continue to back the taliban even after their deliberate destruction of Mosques and Shrines.

This wasn't to deliberately kill civilians, the case was that they didn't care if civilians were killed in the process.

 

[Majnun]

US seeking to expand raids into Pakistan | World | DAWN.COM

WASHINGTON: Top US military commanders in Afghanistan are seeking to expand ground raids by Special Operations Forces across the border in Pakistan’s tribal areas, The New York Times reported Monday.

Amid growing US frustration with Pakistan’s lackluster efforts at removing militants from strongholds there, the officials are proposing to escalate military activities in the nuclear-armed nation, the Times said in its online edition.

US forces have been largely restricted to limited covert operations and unmanned drone strikes in Pakistan due to fears of retaliation from a population that often holds strong anti-American sentiment in a country rife with militants.

Even these limited operations have provoked angry reactions from Pakistani officials. The drones are believed to be largely operated by the CIA.

Amid a looming July deadline for American troops to begin withdrawing from Afghanistan, military and political leaders pointed to a renewed sense of urgency.

Military commanders told the newspaper that the Special Operations plan — which has not yet been approved — could help them secure much-needed intelligence if militants were captured, brought back across the border into Afghanistan and interrogated.

US officials said they were particularly keen to capture — rather than kill — militant leaders from the Taliban or the Haqqani network in order to obtain intelligence about future operations.

“We’ve never been as close as we are now to getting the go-ahead to go across,” a senior US officer said.

But a senior official from President Barack Obama’s administration said he did not favor cross-border operations, saying they have been mostly “counterproductive” unless they targeted top al Qaeda leaders.

The official also worried that political fallout in Pakistan over the operations could counter any tactical gains.

CIA-backed Afghan militias, previously believed to only carry out intelligence-gathering operations, have also crossed the border into Pakistan’s tribal belt during secret missions, including one in which a militia destroyed a militant weapons cache, officials told the Times.

An Afghan political leader said one of the raids by the Paktika Defense Force — one of six CIA-trained Afghan militias — was initiated to capture a Taliban commander in Pakistan. The mission was ultimately unsuccessful but Pakistani militants opened fire on the Afghans.

Another CIA-backed force near the eastern Afghan province of Khost was recently deployed in the mountains along the Pakistan border, where it is due to try to intercept Taliban fighters during the winter, an American military officer told the Times, saying the militia has so far proven effective.

 

[Dance]

"Nato denies US military pushing for Pakistan raids" KABUL:

The US-led coalition in Afghanistan on Tuesday denied reports that American forces are pushing to expand special operations raids into tribal areas of neighbouring Pakistan.

Nato’s deputy chief of communications, US Rear Adm. Gregory Smith, said there was no truth to a report published in The New York Times.

Citing unnamed American officials in Washington, the Times reported on its website late Monday that US military commanders believe special operations forces could capture militants for interrogation, bringing in an intelligence windfall.

”There is absolutely no truth to reporting in The New York Times that US forces are planning to conduct ground operations into Pakistan,” Smith said.

He added that Nato and US forces, along with ”their Afghan partners, have developed a strong working relationship with the Pakistan military to address shared security issues. This coordination recognises the sovereignty of Afghanistan and Pakistan to pursue insurgents and terrorists operating in their respective border areas.”

Pakistan has firmly rejected any suggestion of US assistance and has in the past sternly protested when the US-led alliance had crossed the border into Pakistani tribal areas.

On September 30, Pakistan closed a key border crossing for 10 days, stranding Nato resupply trucks in an apparent protest over a Nato helicopter incursion that killed two Pakistani soldiers on the border. During the closure, almost 150 stranded trucks were destroyed by attackers.

The US has mainly relied on unmanned drones to pursue al Qaeda militants based in Pakistan. A decision to deploy special operations teams would signal frustration with Pakistan’s efforts to root out militants who use its territory as a base to support the Taliban and other extremists.

In response to the newspaper report, Pakistan’s ambassador to the US, Husain Haqqani, said, ”Pakistani forces are capable of handling the militant threat within our borders and no foreign forces are allowed or required to operate inside our sovereign territory. We work with our allies, especially the US, and appreciate their material support but we will not accept foreign troops on our soil — a position that is well known.”

He noted that Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, had visited Pakistan recently and had ”acknowledged Pakistan’s contribution. Nothing discussed during his trip indicates the likelihood of ill-advised escalation or unilateral action by Nato troops beyond their mandate in Afghanistan.”

Last week, Mullen said in Kabul that he thought it was possible the Pakistani military could shut down Taliban hideouts on its soil to prevent insurgents from moving back and forth across the long, porous border with Afghanistan. He added that fixing the problem was critical to making progress in the war and that he was encouraged by what Pakistan had already done to go after insurgents on its side of the border.

Pakistan has made progress against safe havens over the past year in operations that have taken a toll on its forces, according to a five-page public summary of the White House’s classified Afghanistan War review that was released last week.

Pakistani authorities have almost exclusively focused on militants who pose a threat inside Pakistan. So far they have refused a US request to take on militants allegedly present in North Waziristan. It is also said to be the home base of the Haqqani network.

Analysts and Afghan government officials have accused Pakistan of protecting the Haqqani network as a potential ally that could be of use after the Americans and their coalition partners leave Afghanistan.

”Cross border coordination has and continues to disrupt and dismantle insurgent networks in select areas, with significant operations on both sides of the border removing large numbers of insurgent leaders and fighters,” Smith said.

The nine-year-old war in Afghanistan has grown increasingly unpopular in US public opinion polls as it drags on with no apparent exit strategy. Using special operations forces could increase pressure on the militants, or it could create new problems for Washington.

The newspaper said that Afghan militias backed by the CIA have in recent years carried out a number of secret missions into Pakistan. The operations had previously been described as limited to intelligence-gathering. But the report said that recent interviews had revealed that in at least one instance, the Afghans attacked and destroyed a militant weapons cache.

Officials who described the proposal for raids and the intelligence operations to the newspaper declined to be identified by name because they were discussing classified information, the report said.

Nato denies US military pushing for Pakistan raids | Latest news, Breaking news, Pakistan News, World news, business, sport and multimedia | DAWN.COM

---------- Post added at 01:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:47 PM ----------

Well that just exposed the NYT third class reporting and their anti-Pakistan agenda

 

[Ahmad]

The problem with the US war is that, even today defeating the Taliban is seen as an imperative. What the US appears to not realize is the reason that this war has become such a dramatic failure for them is that initially they connected the Taliban with Al Qaeda and claimed them to be terrorists as well. They saw no distinction between the Taliban, desiring to rule their own country in peace, and Al Qaeda, with its distorted and disturbing views on world domination.

you must be kidding me!! They were one of those ones who masacared thousands and thousands and destroyed their whole villages/houses/cities. You guys simply say something that you love it, no matter how untrue it is.

They then made a fatal error in moving against the entire Pashtun population of Afghanistan who were, understandably, not pleased with the invasion and occupation of their land,

You are insulting the pashtoons by equating them to the Taliban. Yes, that is true that the Taliban is purely pashtoon movement which include both pashtoons of paksitan and Afghanistan, but to suggest they(pashtons) are all the Taliban is nothing but a BS, I urge you to read this report, i think the same thing is true about the pashton areas of Paksitan:

Taliban Violence Creating Social Revolution Among Pashtuns | EurasiaNet.org

and instead embraced the Northern Alliance and their puppet, Hamid Karzai, who had welcomed the US to Afghanistan with open arms.

Northern alliance is a totally wrong name, on the other hand it doesnt exist as a poltical entity at all today. The leaders of the so called NA are in opposition led by a Pashtoon leader called Abdullah Abdullah. So called NA and the Taliban are having exactly the same position with regards to the gov of Karzai, one is active politically and the other one(taliban) are taking arms and fight.

The United States installed this new and grossly unrepresentative government in Kabul,

Sadly we never had any gov in our history which had represented the nation, present gov is the least worst among the others.

In a move to further alienate the Pashtun majority of Afghanistan,

Not majority, the largest group.

US B-52s carpet bombed much of southern Afghanistan (a tactic used on a smaller scale in Pakistan’s border regions today and achieving the same result), killing huge numbers of Pashtun civilians and destroying livelihoods.

Why are you deliberately twisting the truth. In this long term conflict eveybody has suffered and the pashtons are one of them. dont forget that the Taliban are the only side which is responsible for the majority of all casualties caused to the civilians. Watch this below video that i am posting and see how these villagers in Farah province has been sandwiched, they were killled in large numbers, thought to be over 140 according to the villagers, all the victims were Tajiks, this was only one incident and a major one which resulted in sacking of the american commander who was later replaced by Sanley Macrystal, the second major masacr also happend in Tajik area in northern baghlan province which killed several dozens of school kids, parliamentarians, teachers, residents etc, the attack was coordinated by the taliban. These 2 were just examples i mentioned.

here is the video: FRONTLINE/WORLD . Dispatches . iWitness . Afghanistan: After an Airstrike | PBS

It was thus the United States themselves who were pushing the Pashtun into the arms of the Taliban

They had lost their abolute dominance in the gov that is why they were unhappy and started fighting, in a multi ethnic country like afghanistan everybody must have thier share, the past governments of Afghanistan which were pashton governments discriminated badly against the non pashtons, those anti non pashton policies resulted in a fractured country which we have now, a backwareded war torn country, dont forget that the same pashton dominated govs in afghanistan didnt recognize your country's indepence and have always had claim on your soil upto now, go and figure out who wants what from you. No special treatment is required to no any ethnic group, they are all the citizens of the same country and must b equal.

. Pakistan president Pervez Musharraf was burned for saying the Taliban should be considered legitimate combatants in the Afghan war and for warning the United States not to alienate the Taliban and the Pashtuns of Afghanistan by tarring them with the same brush as Al Qaeda. Today those words must be haunting the United States leadership as they struggle to save face in Afghanistan.

Musharaf was more concerned about his own proxies and interest in AFghanistan than the pashtoons or people of afghanistan in general. Sadly pakistan have no true friend in AFghanistan, even the taliban are not your friend. Some are your natural enemy which even want to take part of your land, some are being made your enemy because of your policies. This situation is not good for nobody, be it pakistan or afghansitan, a fresh and a honest start is needed.

 

[unicorn]

700 NATO soldiers killed in 2010; new firefights


KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) - A coalition patrol fought off an insurgent attack in mountainous eastern Afghanistan Tuesday, on a day when two servicemen were killed in the country's troubled south, bringing the death toll for foreign troops in the country 2010 to 700, according to an AP count.

This year is by far the deadliest for the coalition in the nearly decade-long war, as tens of thousands of additional international troops have poured into the country in an effort to suppress a virulent Taliban insurgency. But while NATO and the United States note progress has been made in the militants' traditional strongholds in the south, they acknowledge gains made remain precarious.

 

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Pakistan political turmoil may hurt US interests

WASHINGTON: The current political turmoil in Pakistan may hurt US interests if it brings Nawaz Sharif to power, the US media reported on Tuesday.

The Washington Post noted that instability of the Zardari government could also hamper US efforts to convince Pakistan to take more action against extremists and Al Qaeda-affiliated groups hiding in the tribal areas.......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH...........

Fox News warned that the current political turmoil could actually cause the ruling coalition to crumble.

The news channel, however, observed that “America’s medium-term interests in the region wouldn’t necessarily be damaged by a return to military rule”.

Medium term interests in the presence of military will not be compromised..............curious

 

[unicorn]

Lasting peace in Afghanistan?

Complete picture of where American progress is standing right now in Afghanistan.

In the middle of nowhere.