Pakistan Lends Support for U.S. Military Strikes

[Bull]

Yes. India has no such right, given its own involvement in terrorism in Pakistan.

Thats why we blame you for your inefficiency / inability / lack of responsibilty to deal with them.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Thats why we blame you for your inefficiency / inability / lack of responsibilty to deal with them.

Well, we have a lot on our plate now, and if you have been following the other thread, it appears India has been involved in putting some of that on our plate.

 

[Bull]

Well, we have a lot on our plate now, and if you have been following the other thread, it appears India has been involved in putting some of that on our plate.

You have lots on your plate, i admit. But hope now you understand why we blame GoP for these terror acts. Its becaiuse we cant directly act against them as they operate from your land and in previous occassions indeed did have ISI help.

 

[Energon]

Terrorists will always be looking to ensure pace processes fails - but the Indian response IMO was overboard becausee:

1. Domestic Political compulsions - a scapegoat had to be found to absolve the GoI of ineptitude, and redirect the wrath of the public at the perpetual 'enemy' Pakistan.

This is a fundamentally flawed line of reasoning. These "domestic political compulsions" you speak of are the byproduct of the normal reaction that ought to be expected from the populace of a state that has been attacked yet again in an underhanded manner by terrorists launched from another country. The assailants in question were launched from Pakistan, who has been using terrorism as a tool against India for decades; considering that the guilty parties were identified almost instantaneously, the concept of the "scapegoat" goes right out of the window. Even if the terrorists weren't on a governmental mission, the fact that they were created by them and still operate from their territory makes the GoP responsible up to a certain extent and worthy of censure when they dissemble. You can't just raise your hands and say "oh, they were non state actors", deny the identity of the assailant after it has been established and issue a barrage of self contradictory statements prior to finally coming clean (under immense pressure) with the hope that everyone will just forget what happened and move on. Perhaps you would find this acceptable if the tables were turned (no red herring tangents please), but it obviously doesn't seem to be working for the Indians or anyone else for that matter (nor should it)... so maybe its just a difference in standards.

2. They saw an opportunity to put pressure on Pakistan, raise tensions, and therefore undermine Obama's stated policy of addressing Kashmir as part of a regional resolution of issues culminating in all parties working towards the same objectives in Afghanistan. They did not go looking for this, but the opportunity did present it self and the GoI took it.

If a state faces an acute existential threat from cross border terrorism, then that becomes the premier critical priority. This again is an axiom for the elected government of any self respecting nation state. It is because the global community (read the influential states, mostly in the west) understands this position (because these are the standards they have set for themselves as well) that India finds more support, not because there's a world wide conspiracy to humiliate Pakistan and/or destroy it (that would be an utterly pointless endeavor).

3. Related to the second, it distracted the Obama administration and directed its attention towards cooling tensions, instead of addressing Indian complicity in terrorism in Pakistan. Again, not something the GoI went out looking for, but the opportunity presented itself.

The Indian complicity in Pakistani terrorism is a red herring. The quantifiable risk India faces from Pakistan based terrorism is far greater than that of the reverse; India also has a lot more to lose considering that it has a self sustaining and increasingly globalized economy that it is trying to expand. Obama is not an idiot, he certainly knows how to quantify risks and prioritize his efforts. One of the world's most populous and economically important nations with a large nuclear armed military was attacked subversively by Pakistani nationals (who operate from a nation with nuclear weapons of its own) in an abhorrent manner, not the other way round; he did what any sensible person in his position would do... divert all efforts to pacify the situation.

These are the facts which have shaped the world's current opinion over the one where India is percieved as an incessant "warmonger" (an oxymoron considering 2 acts of war were carried out upon them in close succession) or sponsors of global terrorism. Since these points are fairly simple, self explanatory and conform to the national sentiments of most states around the world, I will leave it here and not derail this thread anymore.

 

[Task Force Black]

National Governments and Intelligence Agencies are not funding or launching attacks to destroy and maim either their own or each others tower blocks, buses, trains, hotels, or nightclubs. Neither are they kidnapping and executing on camera their own police force and military personnel for extortion and public display.

R&AW did not bomb or support those that attacked Mumbai. The ISI did not aid and abet those who destroyed Pakistan’s Marriot. BIN of Idonesia did not bomb the Indonesian Marriot Hotel. The CIA did not destroy the Twin Towers nor bomb the World Trade Center. MI5 & MI6 did not blow up the London Underground. Spanish Intelligence did not bomb the trains in Madrid. The Belsan school siege was not conducted by the Russian GRU. This is not an intelligence community tit-for-tat game.

There is a common enemy.

It is simply a testimony to the sanity of the Government of Pakistan and its Intelligence Agency that they do support, coordinate, call in and launch these strikes.

 

[BanglaBhoot]

Pakistan Needs ‘Marshall Plan’ to Fight Militants, Zardari Says

Feb. 19 (Bloomberg) -- Pakistan needs a modern day “Marshall Plan” to help it fight Taliban militants through economic development, President Asif Ali Zardari said, referring to the U.S. aid plan for Europe after World War II.

The northwestern tribal areas bordering Afghanistan need a “massive program” to boost education and employment, the official Associated Press of Pakistan cited Zardari as saying yesterday in Islamabad.

About half of the country’s more than 170 million people are under the age of 25 and their frustration with the current economic situation is a breeding ground for social unrest and militancy, APP cited him as saying.

Zardari is facing pressure from the Obama administration to step up the fight against Taliban and al-Qaeda fighters that U.S. intelligence agencies say are sheltering in Pakistan’s tribal zone. The government in Islamabad says it is doing all it can to combat the guerrillas through selective military force and political and economic programs.

Authorities this week signed a peace accord that will see Islamic law declared in the Swat Valley, 250 kilometers (155 miles) northeast of Islamabad, in return for militants laying down their arms.

A pro-Taliban party that agreed to the truce held a march in the valley yesterday as it tried to persuade militants to accept the agreement. A Pakistani television journalist was shot dead after covering the march and Zardari pledged to bring the assailants to justice, APP reported.

Talks With Karzai

Zardari is scheduled to meet today with Afghan President Hamid Karzai in Islamabad. The nations are trying to improve ties strained by the Karzai administration’s accusations that Pakistani security agencies under former president and army chief Pervez Musharraf backed the Taliban insurgency. Pakistan denies the allegations.

Karzai attended Zardari’s swearing-in ceremony in September after Musharraf’s resignation.

The Pakistani president’s call for increased international aid came after his government this week said it is seeking a $4.5 billion loan from the International Monetary Fund, taking its borrowing from the IMF to more than $12 billion since November.

Inflation in South Asia’s second-biggest economy stood at 20.52 percent in January and the benchmark interest rate stands at 15 percent. Higher borrowing costs have dented growth in the $144 billion economy, which is forecast by the government to expand at the slowest pace in seven years after growing an average 6.8 percent in the past five years.

The Bush administration, which regarded Musharraf as a key ally in its “war on terror,” pledged $3 billion in economic and military aid to Pakistan for 2005-2009.

President Barack Obama is reviewing U.S. strategy for combating the Taliban insurgency in Afghanistan and is pressing Pakistan to do more to root out militants.

The European Commission has allocated 200 million euros ($251 million) to boost rural development and education, largely in North West Frontier Province and Baluchistan province, for 2007 to 2010.

Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

 

[Task Force Black]

Stands to reason. Time to stop leaving everyone standing out in the cold.

 

[muse]

Mo Money - from US tax payers - That's the plan of Pakistani politicians. This plan must be frustrated.

 

[S-2]

"This plan must be frustrated."

As matters currently stand, agreed. As to your motivations, I'm unaware.

I'll not encourage good money for good causes to be spent before they can be effectively implemented. As of now, there's no way that I'd fund another madrassa posing as a school but unable, unwilling, and unprepared to offer a secular education. A gross generalization, I know, but that's exactly where this bus is heading.

You guys are going in the wrong direction and until that's reversed, everything else is pointless. You'll only change matters sufficient for public works projects to be safe at the point of a bayonet or muzzle and there's no determination to do so that I can now see.

It's a central tenet of COIN to establish and hold a baseline of security and it's being abjectly ignored. Best that I can tell in SWAT is that you've surrendered to establishing any control much less sustaining a presence.

I see a reporter was shot today. I'm sure it was simply a personal vendetta. Those are so common up there-especially with no public control present. I doubt that the TTP guys would have shot this guy. Doing so would be spiteful to this freshly-signed deal.

 

[muse]

My motivation? A Pakistani state that returns to it's citizens their property and lays the foundations of a free economy.

I'm with you on not throwing good money or any money after bad -- Pakistani politiicans have two ideologies, one is socialist populism, the other self interest, these conveniently intersect.

Wrong Direction?? No BS, just straight talk: It's too late, even if it was a problem the armed forces would take a institutional decison to tackle, it would require them to do a something radical, something they are simply not willing to do - you know what I mean. It would also mean that the armed forces lay the foundation of a new or at least a kind of state - another 60 year project - no one wants or has the stomach for that.

So, basicall,y Pakistan will limb along as it has learned to do - anything else causes to much dissonance.

And maybe somewhere along the way Pakistanis will learn to exorcise themselves of Islamism.

Or else someone else will do it for them.