Pakistan knows it can't win a conventional war with India

[Markus]

Pakistan knows it can't win a conventional war with India​

There has to be an operational rethinking in the Indian Army," says Lieutenant General D B Shekatkar (retd). "It has to be a proactive rather than a reactive army."

Pointing out to what United States Defence Secretary Leon Panetta said recently that America will take action against anyone from whom there is a threat, the retired general said similarly, if India feels that there is an imminent threat from any sector on the Line of Control, which divides India and Pakistan in Jammu and Kashmir, it should take firm action rather that waiting for an attack first.

"If there is a violation of ceasefire and incidents like the crude beheading and mutilation of troops, then the local commander should have the authority to retaliate immediately to prevent further ingress and to halt them from taking further liberties again and again."

"If you retaliate after a few days, then the impact of retaliation is lost and according to international norms, you will be accused of violating (the ceasefire), but if you retaliate immediately then you can say they acted first and there was no option but to retaliate," the general told Rediff.com on the telephone from Pune.

"If you say we will do it at a time and place of our choosing, then it does not make that much sense of what is required to be done," General Shekatkar said.

There are mainly three reasons for retaliation along the LoC: Retaliation in self defence when the soldier is fired upon from across; Retaliation when there is a violation of the ceasefire; and,
Retaliation to punish them so that they don't repeat it again.

"We in the Indian Army don't take any pleasure in violating the Line of Control. We never cross the Line of Control," the general said vehemently.



The radicalisation and Islamisation of the Pakistan army began with then president General Zia-ul Haq, General Shekatkar said.

There were instances of mutilation and beheading of Indian soldiers in the early 1990s, which precedes the Kargil War.

"Pakistan knows it cannot win a conventional war with India, that it will suffer a crushing defeat if it fought a conventional war; that is why it has continued with the policy of bleeding an army of 1.3 million and a country of 1.2 billion people by a thousand cuts."

The general was part of several flag meetings with his Pakistani counterparts when he served the army and as Additional Director Military Operations has had the opportunity to speak to the DGMO, Pakistan, when the Indian DGMO was out of station.

Forty-one years after Pakistan's defeat in the 1971 war, the Pakistan army still has not been able to reconcile to its defeat and the creation of Bangladesh, the general felt.

The present senior echelons of the Pakistan army must have been 17, 18 years at that time, he added, and carry that grudge which has been passed on to younger soldiers who were not even born at that time.



An officer who knows too well the pain of sending the dead body of a martyred soldier to his home and family, the general, who has served multiple tenures in Jammu and Kashmir, says however noble the intention it is to retrieve slain Lance Naik Hemraj's head, it is a difficult task.

"Firstly, Pakistan has not accepted that the act has been done by them and returning the head would prove their crime. Secondly, nearly ten days later, it is difficult to imagine the condition of the severed head, which would depend on the availability of a mortuary at the forward area," adds General Shekatkar, stressing the barbarity of the beheading, which has added to the martyr's family's agony because they had to conduct the last rites deprived of being able to see his face one last time.

"To be able to see the face of a loved one who is no more, is part of our Indian culture. Imagine, what the pain of the family of that soldier must be," the general, who has also served extensively in India's Northeast, said.

"Such barbaric acts reflect that there has been a Talibanisation of the Pakistan army. Such a mindset is bound to have an impact on events within their own country," he continued.

"An army that gets used to barbarism cannot overnight change and behave in a humanitarian manner and abide by the code of conventional/unconventional operations."

'Pakistan knows it can't win a conventional war with India' - Rediff.com News

 

[BATMAN]

LOL.. Indian MKI and Mirrages were locked by Pakistani F-7, not so long ago and next day all was clam.

 

[Ajaxpaul]

So whats new here ? We already know Pak cannot endure a sustained war.

If Pak makes the first move, It will be a diplomatic victory for India even before full scale war breaks out, military victory will follow a few days after.

 

[janon]

This thread will soon go nuclear.

 

[r3alist]

i dont think pakistani's need to know they can beat and overwhelm india, just that they can adequately defend themselves and deter any aggression.

unfortunately the only interpretation of defence many pakistani's have is nukes and the army, they are not cognisant of the many areas a nation needs to be strong in order to defend itself, because enemies will seek to exploit ANY weakness, this narrow view, caused by the authorities is what is damaging pakistan, many are living in the dark ages.

also, it would not be a good idea for india to try and emulate aggressive america, the average american has gained nothing from it, but the world has suffered a lot.

 

[joekrish]

This thread will soon go nuclear.

You can bet on that mate.

@ tipic- No doubt we will win the war but the real question here would be at what cost?

 

[acetophenol]

India's no first use policy alone displays our confidence in our conventional forces.

 

[Che Guevara]

LOL.. Indian MKI and Mirrages were locked by Pakistani F-7, not so long ago and next day all was clam.

What What aray yar padnay ke hud hoti hay.......itna bhi mat nicha jiro...

 

[Contrarian]

The days of Pakistan fighting an open war with India are long gone. Their army knows it will lose completely in a war.

Its now a question of how long they can prevent that in a war.

 

[Ajaxpaul]

You can bet on that mate.

@ tipic- No doubt we will win the war but the real question here would be at what cost?

Cost is insignificant....its the ego and image of a country that hurts in war. The question is how hard will one strike. Full scale war is a non starter.

 

[KRAIT]

Same old debate and same old conclusion with same old closure of thread to follow.

Mods can close it and save everyone's time and theirs too.

 

[janon]

i dont think pakistani's need to know they can beat and overwhelm india, just that they can adequately defend themselves and deter any aggression.

unfortunately the only interpretation of defence many pakistani's have is nukes and the army, they are not cognisant of the many areas a nation needs to be strong in order to defend itself, because enemies will seek to exploit ANY weakness, this narrow view, caused by the authorities is what is damaging pakistan, many are living in the dark ages.

also, it would not be a good idea for india to try and emulate aggressive america, the average american has gained nothing from it, but the world has suffered a lot.

That part is not true. There are at least two ways the average American has benefited. One, immunity from terrorist threats to their lives like what happened on 9/11. Since the US went out and decimated the al Qaeda network and the Taliban sanctuaries, they can rest assured that no more terror attacks will happen on their soil. America's enemies lost that capability. It won't ever happen again.

Another way the average American benefits by US military policy, is the fact that they enjoy all the benefits of US companies bending foreign governments to their will. Oil always flowed freely into America from the gulf states, because the US military has always ensured that it will happen. The defence of countries like Saudi, Kuwait etc was America's responsibility, which ensured that their oil never stopped flowing into the US, and that kept prices of oil (and everything else) down at home, and they enjoyed huge prosperity, and built the world's biggest economy. Now this benefit may not be a noble one as compared to the former, but it is a fact.

 

[Abingdonboy]

What a stupid article. What military/nation faced with an opponant with a military 2-3 times larger than their own, 7-8 times larger economy, a population 5-6 times greater etc etc would think they could realistically win a conventional war against their richer, larger more powerful opponent? This article is stating the obvious but isn't that what the Pakistani nuclear bomb was all about? Evening the playing board?

 

[BATMAN]

I still remember the 5000 targets announced by the ex-InAF chief.

lol itni bisty to dunia main kis ki nahi hoti.. jitni indians ki hoti hay .. gidar bhabkion kay bad!

Enjoy

By Raja G Mujtaba

“The Pakistan Air Force is stronger than ever. Since the last Indo-Pak air war of 1971, the Pakistan Air Force has with steely determination built up numbers, lethal capabilities and a combat force now counted as one of the most disciplined and well-trained air forces in the world. Headlines Today has a disturbing proof that all this has made India worried.” India Today 20th April 2011

Over the years since 1971 the leadership and planners of Pakistan Air Force (PAF) have not slept, they did not believe in status quo. 1971 was the watershed period of PAF when the country had fallen from grace and truncated through internal and external conspiracies. To rise from ground zero is no mean job. But PAF has been lucky that by and large it remained in the hands of committed, dedicated professionals who took the challenge from the horn.

The US, true to its traditions dried all sources of military hardware and economic resources. But those sanctions proved blessing in disguise. Pakistan looked inwards and laid the foundations for self reliance with technical assistance from dependable friendly countries like China, Ukraine, Sweden etc. France was also willing to provide but its costs were prohibitive that kept the cooperation to a minimum level.

The bulk work was done with the cooperation of China that helped Pakistan in almost all the defence production, overhauling and rebuilding. The foundation of Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, Kamra was laid. Here a very modest beginning was made when the light Swedish aircraft (Mashak) was launched as a basic trainer to meet the needs of PAF and Pakistan Army. From assembly to manufacture and enhancement this aircraft became the training bed for a full fledged fighter aircraft production.

F-6 Rebuild Factory that rebuilt the Chinese MIG 19s re-designated by PAF as F-6. When all other sources had dried and Pakistan did not have the finances to go for highly expensive Mirage aircraft F-6 became the mainstay of PAF. It was modernized with latest avionics, ejection seats, armament, breaking system and taxing capability that added much more lethal power to an old vintage technology.

On the drawing boards of F 6 Rebuild Factory, newer aircraft designs were developed that were given computer simulation for design tests. First a Super Saber that was to be developed on the frame of MIG 21 or F-7 fighter bomber but due to some technical snags, it was called off. Then with a little gap and new thought process, a brand new design was developed with active participation of China the end product was JF 17 that exceeded all the performance parameter envelop by significant margins. This aircraft was designed, built, tested and inducted in the PAF in a record time.

JF 17 is a close match to F 16 with a huge price difference. It has been displayed at International Air Shows of China and Farnborough in the UK where it was admired by all. It soon became the most fancied aircraft of the developing world for its performance and low price tags and complete absence of any strings. China has also emerged as a major buyer with 300 copies of JF 17 and about the same number would be acquired by PAF.

Its not just the Chinese origin induction but PAF has also received latest F 16s that has a total strength of 60 aircraft half of which are block 52, the latest upgrade. The F-16 As already on the inventory of PAF are also undergoing major upgrade and soon will become equivalent to Block 52 version, in capabilities.

Not stopping here, as reported by India Today in its latest issue, “There’s a deeper threat at play than just fighter numbers. Consider these newly inducted force multipliers that all but kill the Indian air advantage. Pakistan is inducting four Swedish Saab Erieye and four Chinese Y-8 airborne early warning aircraft, while India, currently, has three. India no longer has the mid-air refueller advantage. Pakistan is inducting four identical IL-78M aircraft.”

After the acquisition of four mid-air refuelers (IL-78) from Ukraine and early warning systems like Saab 2000 from Sweden and ZDK-03 from China, PAF has had a quantum jump in reducing the gap with India over technology and firepower.

Whereas Pakistan is fast phasing out its old vintage, India is still stuck with old Russian equipment that is fast losing its edge over Pakistan. India Today states, “Finally, with an ageing Soviet fleet of aircraft (MIGs)that are troublesome and facing retirement, the Air Force looks at an even greater dip in the numbers advantage. The message to the Defence Ministry and the government is simple. Cut your losses and plan hard for the future. If you don’t, the Indian Air Force will lose the one thing you’ve always counted on: its combat edge.”

PAF has not stopped here. According to official sources, PAF is in the process of acquiring J10 the latest machine from China. The exact number or its assembly or production in Pakistan has not yet been finalized. This aircraft would surpass most of the advance jet fighters and compete with any aircraft in its class.

Now most PAF aircraft are nuclear capable and all can be refueled in mid-air. This is a punch that’s hard to match in any given theatre. What PAF lacked in deep penetration aircraft has more than made up with mid air refueling and latest F-16 Block 52 aircraft, which has a long range.

In last decade, the induction of latest aircraft by PAF has completed the requirements of fighting a modern concept of net centric war, in future. All these modern aircraft and allied air defence systems acquired by PAF are now fully integrated in a net centric environment, ready to deliver a decisive blow to the enemy in any future encounter.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...an-air-force-leading-force.html#ixzz2IKgXgEjH

 

[Skull and Bones]

LOL.. Indian MKI and Mirrages were locked by Pakistani F-7, not so long ago and next day all was clam.

Another ATC radar operator along with @Windjammer.