Pakistan Keen To Purchase F-16 Fleet From Norway: Mukhtar

[ANG]

Hi, I will not derail this thread so this will be my last comment on this. Regardless of whether I have a billion or two to spare, the PAF is flushing its money down the toilet on these used planes. They are sanction prone, and probably have kill switches in them. The PAF will never be able to operate them without western spares. It makes no sense to buy these planes, investing in the FC-20 or JF-17 is a more conservative option. Take care.

 

[Stealth_fighter]

Block 52 standard with NV cockpits - AN-APG 68V(9) - sinper - AIM-120B/C/D - AIM-9x- Joint helmet mounted cuing system configuration.

If we receive these - All of Pakistan Air force's viper fleet would be Block 52 and Block 52+ standard.

I say go for them and later buy from Turkey too

yeah i agree but worried about the time frame...if they comes in the year of 2011-12 then its great..

 

[rizhussain44]

how much f-16 they have?

we should get them all ad upgrade them through turkey to block 52 class

They have already been upgraded to block 52! You would have known this if you have read some of the previous posts on the same page.

 

[razgriz19]

here's a problem
these f-16s wont be available till 2018 at very least.
and another thing, all of these f-16s are 25+ years old so basically by the time we'll get them there will be no life left in them....

i guess PAF wants to build another "mirage" fleet!

 

[razgriz19]

If Pakistan really want India to spend than Pakistan shall stoping aiding India by allowing smuggling of Indian goods, which means loss in revenue and local industry.
Pakistan can stop aiding India by revoking free transit facility.
Pakistan can question Hamid karzai for handing over construction contracts to indian companies while we help him also with free transit aid.
There are many ways Pakistan can set back Indian earnings to $40-$50 billion annual and increase its revenues in equal amount.
Point is Indians have worked out this basic economics very well.
Small commission to every one in Pakistan and every one is willing to sell Pakistan.
Some are so stupid that they fail to see the big picture.

Look 4 years ago Pakistan's economic growth was higher than India and in 2006 Pakistan lead the world in defence equipment deals.
Somehow, few selected lawyers and politicians started long march for the reinstatement of a Iftikhar ch. and today whole nation stand as loosers.

haahahaaha couldn't agree more!
glad to see that im not the only one who thinks this way..

 

[monitor]

here's a problem
these f-16s wont be available till 2018 at very least.
and another thing, all of these f-16s are 25+ years old so basically by the time we'll get them there will be no life left in them....

i guess PAF wants to build another "mirage" fleet!

Aren't your current f-16 fleet are 20+ year old and getting midlife upgrade ? If those can get and use then i don't think getting the norowegian fleet will have any problem for atleast as a stop gap until your fc-20 and jf-17 are ready .l

 

[notorious_eagle]

You are right about the options available(or say Lack off) for 5 generation planes...However that is what the troubling part is....No offense but F-16 is way too old a platform...10 years from now it is going to be even more obsolete....Yes right now it is a very potent plane and back bone of PAF but why to keep it like that???? Don't you think PAF should start looking into other options especially when we are talking about a decade from now???

F16 might be an old platform but it has evolved over the years and the newer versions of F16's are advanced enough to stand toe to toe with any newer fighter aircraft. PAF would be looking for other options but to be honest, we simply don't know. Upgrade of the Air Force is an evolving process, unless the opposing side gets an F22 i really don't see the balance of power changing. In fact, PAF is slowly closing some gaps where IAF enjoyed superiority.

OK but this will happen whenever it will happen however getting into deals right now for a plane that you most probably will get in 6-8 years, thereafter add more time for MLU's and you enter the era of 5 generation planes doesn't sound logical to me.....b/w by that time you would have already gone through MLU for existing block 52's, no???.....I am sorry but something is not fitting in here....By the time these F-16's arrive IAF would be seriously thinking of yet another MLU's for Migs...Shouldn't J-10 and its improved versions be the focus as compared to a very old ar-frame right now????

I know PAF is very professional and they must have thought through all this but need some help to understand what i am perceiving to be a grave problem is not as grave....

First of all i am lost, what do you mean by old airframe. The Falcon Upgrade makes the airframe of the F16 as good as new, i think you can pull out 5000 hours after it. The F16 might be an old design but thats due to the fact that the General Dynamics simply outdid itself. Its not the fault of the Americans that they developed an airplane that was far ahead of its time, and due to the constant upgrade of the F18/F15 a lot of their technologies were added on the F16. If the PAF fields a fleet full of 4th Generation Aircrafts, 8 years down the line it appears that if not all than majority of IAF fleet will also consist of 4th Generation Aircrafts.

First of all lets talk about what sort of 5th Generation Aircrafts we are talking about. If its an F22 which conventional radars simply cannot pick up, than we are in huge trouble but lucky for us the PAK FA's are not as low observable as the F22's. To counter them we need to invest in radar technology, electronic warfare and the latest generation of weapons. The F16 whether its 8 years down the line, would not be going up for Block 52 upgrade it will probably be upgraded to the avionics and weapon standards off that time. Israel, Greece, Turkey or Poland have done their homework and that is why they bought brand new F16's. The biggest advantage that the F16 offers in Air to Air Fight are the AMRAAM and AIM9X cued up with the JHMCS, i would any day place my money on the American weapon system.

 

[fatman17]

Pakistan will get 72 F-16 jets

47 - F-16AM jets

10 - F-16BM jets

All have received a mid-life update

the purchase of the total F-16 fleet of norway is doubtful.
if the statement of the defence minister is true, then at most PAF wld be interested in 2 squadrons (36 a/c) - i say this bcuz ten years ago PAF was also interested in belgian F-16s but did not get US NOC and the aircraft were sold to jordan.

 

[Jigs]

I thought the Turkish F-16s would be the ones we would go for. This Norwegian news was unexpected. I still think the PAF will pursue Turkish F-16s.

Nothing wrong in going for it for the right price and within the right time-frame. I don't see much point in this if the first batch starts arriving in 2015 or so. By then it would already be our third-tier fighter, potentially, behind the FC-20+Block52 and JF-17s.

Ours will start to go in 2020 and will need airframe upgrades to be kept in service longer. No F-16 pilot will transfer over to the F-35 at the moment. Only F-4/F-5 guys.

 

[Luftwaffe]

don't see much point in this if the first batch starts arriving in 2015 or so. By then it would already be our third-tier fighter, potentially, behind the FC-20+Block52 and JF-17s.

Sir, if AESA is offered for the F-16s would it still be third-tier fighter by then.
As F-16 is far ahead in Quality from both JFT and FC-20

 

[Luftwaffe]

Black Blood - Apparently a good news for us as those vipers have received MLU recently - the only issue would be price and delivery time period.

If US decides gives NOC to Norwegians to sell those F-16s to PAF, the delivery time indeed will be a problem as those F-16s would be released by 2015 through 2017. I would fairly invest money in FC-20 as No 1 choice.
Better negotiations by PAF can help reduce the price but seem they would be somewhere between $20-30 million.

One important point to be noted is acquiring these F-16s and dedicating atleast 1 squadron to Naval role and 1 squadron to Electronic Warfare role could be the best possible option for these F-16s in PAF/PN Air Force.

O dedicated Electronic Warfare F-16s could be named EA-16 Alligator (aggression, survival, adaptability)

 

[PAFAce]

the purchase of the total F-16 fleet of norway is doubtful.
if the statement of the defence minister is true, then at most PAF wld be interested in 2 squadrons (36 a/c) - i say this bcuz ten years ago PAF was also interested in belgian F-16s but did not get US NOC and the aircraft were sold to jordan.

Yep. But 10 years ago was before September 11, 2001. This time around, with the last Block 52s already here and an option for 18 more, it might be easier to get the NOC.

But yeah, I don't see us going for the entire fleet as well. The main question will surely be the price and time-frame. If we can have all the ones we need by 2015/16, it might be worth it.

 

[malikkhawar]

plzz leave f-16
its a old machine.
investing in the FC-20 or JF-17 block II & III is a more conservative option.

 

[fatman17]

@USD5m per x 36 = 186m or say 200m dollars is a deal we cant refuse. even if one doubles the per price = 400m is still not a bad deal !!!

 

[Luftwaffe]

5 Million per F-16 I'm wary of such speculative price tag.

$15-18 Million would be realistic by 2015. $600M for 2 squadrons or 36 is too good.

I'm yet to get input from Air Force associated Seniors if 1 squadron of these F-16s dedicated for Electronic Warfare is a good idea.