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Pakistan is not responsible for the Debacle of Russia in Afganistan in which 29000 russian died

jung41

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Afghanistan hit the world’s headlines in 1979. Afghanistan seemed to perfectly summarise theCold War. From the west’s point of view,Berlin,Korea,HungaryandCubahad shown the way communism wanted to proceed. Afghanistan was a continuation of this.
In Christmas 1979, Russian paratroopers landed in Kabal, the capital of Afghanistan. The country was already in the grip of a civil war. The prime minister, Hazifullah Amin, tried to sweep aside Muslim tradition within the nation and he wanted a more western slant to Afghanistan. This outraged the majority of those in Afghanistan as a strong tradition of Muslim belief was common in the country.
Thousands of Muslim leaders had been arrested and many more had fled the capital and gone to the mountains to escape Amin’s police. Amin also lead a communist based government – a belief that rejects religion and this was another reason for such obvious discontent with his government.
Thousands of Afghanistan Muslims joined the Mujahdeen – a guerilla force on a holy mission for Allah. They wanted the overthrow of the Amin government. The Mujahdeen declared a jihad – a holy war – on the supporters of Amin. This was also extended to the Russians who were now in Afghanistan trying to maintain the power of the Amin government.
The Mujahdeen proved to be a formidable opponent. They were equipped with old rifles but had a knowledge of the mountains around Kabal and the weather conditions that would be encountered there. Amercia took the opportunity and CIA roped in ISI to provide arms and funds to Mujahdeen.
Young conscript Russian soldiers were no match against men fuelled by their religious belief. Though the Russian army had a reputation, the war in Afghanistan showed the world just how poor it was outside of military displays. Army boots lasted no more than 10 days before falling to bits in the harsh environment of the Afghanistan mountains. Many Russian soldiers deserted to the Mujahdeen. Russian tanks were of little use in the mountain passes.
Mujhadeen fighters were given access to American surface-to-air missiles through ISI route which proved lethal and subsequently nailed the Russians.Mikhail Gorbachev took Russia out of the Afghanistan fiasco when he realised what many Russian leaders had been too scared to admit in public – that Russia could not win the war and the cost of maintaining such a vast force in Afghanistan was crippling Russia’s already weak economy. By 1982, the Mujahdeen controlled 75% of Afghanistan despite fighting the might of the world’s second most powerful military power
Loss Encountered by Russia
Between December 25, 1979, and February 15, 1989, a total of 620,000soldiers served with the forces in Afghanistan (though there were only 80,000–104,000 serving at one time): 525,000 in the Army, 90,000 with border troops and otherKGBsub-units, 5,000 in independent formations ofMVDInternal Troops, and police forces. A further 21,000 personnel were with the Soviet troop contingent over the same period doing various white collar and blue collar jobs.

The total irrecoverable personnel losses of the Soviet Armed Forces, frontier, and internal security troops came to 14,453. Soviet Army formations, units, and HQ elements lost 13,833, KGB sub-units lost 572, MVD formations lost 28, and other ministries and departments lost 20 men. During this period 312 servicemen were missing in action or taken prisoner;
119 were later freed, of whom 97 returned to the USSR and 22 went to other countries.

Of the troops deployed, 53,753 were wounded, injured, or sustained concussion and 415,932 fell sick. A high proportion of casualties were those who fell ill. This was because of local climatic and sanitary conditions, which were such that acute infections spread rapidly among the troops. There were 115,308 cases of infectioushepatitis, 31,080 oftyphoidfever, and 140,665 of other diseases. Of the 11,654 who were discharged from the army after being wounded, maimed, or contracting serious diseases, 10,751 men, were left disabled.[160]

Material losses were as follows:
· 451 aircraft(includes 333helicopters)
· 147tanks
· 1,314IFV/APCs
· 433artillery gunsandmortars
· 11,369 cargo and fuel tanker trucks.

Causes of withdrawal

Some of the causes of the Soviet Union's withdrawal from Afghanistan leading to the Afghanistan regime's eventual defeat include:
The Soviet Army of 1980 was trained and equipped for large scale, conventional warfare in Central Europe against a similar opponent, i.e. it used armored and motor-rifle formations. This was notably ineffective against small scale guerrilla groups using hit-and-run tactics in the rough terrain of Afghanistan. The large Red Army formations weren't mobile enough to engage small groups of Muj fighters that easily meshed back into the terrain.The set strategy also meant that troops were discouraged from "tactical initiative", essential in counter insurgency, because it "tended to upset operational timing".

· The Russians used large scale offensives against Mujahideen strongholds, such as in the Panjshir Valley, which temporarily clearing those sectors and killed many civilians in addition to enemy combatants. The biggest shortcoming here was the fact that once the Russians did engage the enemy in force, they failed to hold the ground by withdrawing once their operation was completed. The killing of civilians further alienated the population from the Soviets, with bad long-term effects.

· The Soviets didn't have enough men to fight a counter-insurgency war (COIN), and their troops were not motivated. The peak number of Soviet troops during the war was 115,000. The bulk of these troops were conscripts, which led to poor combat performance in their Motor-Rifle Formations. However, the Russians did have their elite infantry units, such as the famed Spetsnaz, the VDV, and their recon infantry. The problem with their elite units was not combat effectiveness, but the fact that there were not enough of them and that they were employed incorrectly.

· Intelligence gathering, essential for successful COIN, was inadequate. The Soviets over-relied on less-than-accurate aerial recon and radio intercepts rather than their recon infantry and special forces. Although their special forces and recon inf, performed very well in combat against the Mujahideen, they would have better served in intelligence gathering.

The concept of a "war of national liberation" against a Soviet-sponsored "revolutionary" regime was so alien to the Soviet dogma, the leadership could not "come to grips" with it. This led to, among other things, a suppression by the Soviet media for several years of the truth how bad the war was going, which caused a backlash when it was unable to hide it further
 
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past history, facts can not be changed with passage of times
 
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Russian invasion killed 5 million Afghans and left tens of million homless and they complain about 29,000 Russian soldier deaths ! Its like Hitle complaining about German soldier deaths during his invasion of Russia while ignoring misery and deaths of millions of Russian civilians.
 
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Pakistan wishes nothing but great friendship to our Russian friends , promoters of peace and world safety

In past Pakistan was deceived , and people of Pakistan now understand the importance of having good relations with all people including Russia

The new generation understand the great role Russia plays to promote freedom and democracy world wide
 
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Whatever the number of soldiers were killed those were not Russian but USSR's soldiers.
Pakistan and USSR had a conflict.
But Pakistan and Russia are friends and both countries want to forge stronger bonds.
 
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Whatever the number of soldiers were killed those were not Russian but USSR's soldiers.
Pakistan and USSR had a conflict.
But Pakistan and Russia are friends and both countries want to forge stronger bonds.
USSR is now russia . Who is responsible for making USSR ....russia??
 
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Pakistan was never directly at war with Old Soviets ,
every one knows that the war was between Afghanistan and Soviets


Pakistan , now understands the importance of Russian presence in all peace efforts, and we support Russia as a peaceful nation of world like China


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Obam-pus can go suck on his bannana , tree
 
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Pakistan had a big role in the break up of ussr besides all of gcc, egypt and israel.
Many consider it pakistan's finest hour.

In reality, the whole project was a CIA production directed by zbignew bresinski, Secretary defense, aka, war criminal. Pakistan was a pawn. May be Russia understands this.

Russia-Pak cooperation is the need of the hour and thats why pakistan has approached belarus which is a window into russia.
 
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So ??? Russia also had malicious intents against pakistan but the past is the past. If every nation would forever be mad at the other for fighting it then without a doubt there would be Zero diplomatic relations and the word international relations would hold no meaning. As I said once enemies yesterday can be friends today and making enemies to benefit a backstabber nation is not wise and we have learned our lesson. Pak russia relations wmare getting warmer and we need to open ourselves to Russian trade.
 
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i can see why the thread has been opened by an indian :omghaha:...some one is not happy about the deals between Pak and Russia......them tactics are real :D
In this thread there is no talk of deals between pak and russia ????

So ??? Russia also had malicious intents against pakistan but the past is the past. If every nation would forever be mad at the other for fighting it then without a doubt there would be Zero diplomatic relations and the word international relations would hold no meaning. As I said once enemies yesterday can be friends today and making enemies to benefit a backstabber nation is not wise and we have learned our lesson. Pak russia relations wmare getting warmer and we need to open ourselves to Russian trade.
Definately every country behaves according to situation and time so its obvious.
 
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Definately every country behaves according to situation and time so its obvious.

Foreign relations evolve with time. Maybe today's friends won't be friends tomorrow and the same goes for today's enemies won't be enemies tomorrow. As time passes by relations between nations evolve according to need and desire. The greatest example of this is France, england and germany. These nations fought each other many times but are now close together and have formed the European union.. The unity that only 70 years ago looked impossible and 100 years ago would have been dismissed as rubbish...

Y
 
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o_O you didn't get it do you
No i didn't

Foreign relations evolve with time. Maybe today's friends won't be friends tomorrow and the same goes for today's enemies won't be enemies tomorrow. As time passes by relations between nations evolve according to need and desire. The greatest example of this is France, england and germany. These nations fought each other many times but are now close together and have formed the European union.. The unity that only 70 years ago looked impossible and 100 years ago would have been dismissed as rubbish...

Y
I agree with you and example is relation between India and US
 
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