Pakistan is not a muslim country

[fhassan]

Mr Green gave an answer that was devoid of wisdom, and might I add adhab etc

He should not be treated like a scholar, rather a speaker.

His point may be valid, however the way in which he came to it should have been better, and he should not have painted the whole nation with the same brush.

Having said that, there is indeed very little Islam in pakistan, I wonder sometimes if the Sahaba and indeed the ahyl bait (RA) were to walk across the streets of pakistan, would they recognise any of it as the beloved (assalaatu wasalaam) had demonstrated to us?

 

[Conscientious objector]

Mr Green gave an answer that was devoid of wisdom, and might I add adhab etc.

He should not be treated like a scholar, rather a speaker.

His point may be valid, however the way in which he came to it should have been better, and he should not have painted the whole nation with the same brush.

Sometimes its better to tackle such subjects head on rather than beating around the bush in a fake attempt to appear diplomatic.

Having said that, there is indeed very little Islam in pakistan,

Those who are uneducated indulge in unIslamic practices due to ignorance and those that are educated are too busy emulating the practices of the kuffar in the west.

I wonder sometimes if the Sahaba and indeed the ahyl bait (RA) were to walk across the streets of pakistan, would they recognise any of it as the beloved (assalaatu wasalaam) had demonstrated to us?

Exactly, I'm certain they (radiullah hu anhu) would not believe they are in a country of muslims, and this is exactly the impression Abdur Raheem Green came away with after visiting Pakistan.He didn't see any Islam, only the kufr of the elitist crowd on the one hand and the kufr of the deprived underclass on the other.Its not surprising he arrived at the conclusion that he did.

I mean for him to see palmistry outlets operating openly everywhere must have come as a shock,this practice is major kufr, yet like he said everywhere you look in Pakistani cities you see the big hand sign advertising this heinous practice.These palm readers apart from being kaafirs are charlatans who prey on those who are foolish enough to pay for their services.

 

[Conscientious objector]

Then, how to protect Pakistan?

I call for a return to pure Islam and you ask how to protect Pakistan?
Do you see a return to pure Islam as a threat to the existence of Pakistan?Your question is a very strange one, are you a muslim,your question suggests your not.

Talebans talk the same way you have talked.

Islamaphobes speak the way you have spoken.

Should they be then allowed to rule over Pakistan and then be allowed to behead people and stone people to death at their whims!

Why are you digressing from the subject? Are you obsessed with the Taliban? Why on earth mention them here? Why do you automatically link Islam or a discussion on Islam to the Taliban?
Why are you talking total rubbish?

This is what they have been doing all along whenever they have controlled an area.

What on earth has that got to do with the subject at hand? Ar you feeling O.K? Have you had too much sake there in Tokyo?

There was a time when many Hindus embraced Islam to escape the rigorous rules and JAT PAT system. Hindu society was willing to sacrifice Hindus to safeguard their Dharm. Islam has a broad appeal. There is no place of repression of its population and its women.

More irrelevant tosh, who has stated that women should be repressed?Stick to the topic.

The method you are suggesting is less Islam and more fanaticism.

Which method have I suggested? You like jumping to unfounded assumptions don't you?

This fanaticism went so far in Afghanistan that Mullahs would not allow small children to play marble or fly kites. They would say it is not endorsed by Islam. Very funny, isn't it?

Point out where I have advocated this kind of thing, can you do that?Your whole post is one long diatribe.

I am not endorsing vulgarism in Islamic or Hindu society. But, a little innocent cheering, not that they should dance, by young people does not hurt Islam. The adults should look the other way.

I think maybe your a Bengali Hindu with a hidden agenda,if you want to live your life of kufr your free to do so, most Pakistanis do not, we want an Islamic society.

 

[Conscientious objector]

Question: Why can't Muslim countries with Muslim majority populations (such as 97% Muslims in Pakistan) build a moral society?
Answer: They are not Islamic.

Yes the the societies are not Islamic, this much is obvious. If Pakistani society were Islamic we wouldn't be witnessing all the antiIslamic practices beliefs and statements that we do on a regular basis.

The man asking the question even tried to correct him, but he was on a rant and a ramble, he wasn't going to stop. Like I said, this question deserved a better, more informed answer. I am disappointed to say the least.

You haven't provided a viable alternative,it seems all you can do is rant and ramble about Abdur Raheem's response without explaining what you feel would have been the correct response.

Stop defending this man.

No, you stop criticising him.

Someone compared him to Dr. Zakir Naik. Please, Dr. Zakir Naik doesn't say ridiculous sh*t simply to re-enforce the crowd.

This is your baseless accusation that he said what he did to appease the crowd in someway.If that were the case he wouldn't have made his statements against the Indian practices at the shrines,and note that he made the statements against the Indians in the same general terms as he did against Pakistanis.

 

[U-571]

he really sounds like a mullah, and he's himself no way a good muslim himself, as he labels muslims as non muslims which is a great sin in front of Allah. he should ask for his forgiveness for he has insulted pakistani muslims. no muslim country is a good muslim coutry these days. these are just the same mullahs, who fight over minute things like wearing dresses other than shalwar kamiz is haram is haram. these mullahs are destroying islam's image. islamic bashers get this very precious opportunity to avail and bad name the religion.

 

[forcetrip]

Sometimes its better to tackle such subjects head on rather than beating around the bush in a fake attempt to appear diplomatic.

hahahah .. are you serious? there is a difference in sounding stupid and he should have actually ATTEMPTED to not sound that.


Those who are uneducated indulge in unIslamic practices due to ignorance and those that are educated are too busy emulating the practices of the kuffar in the west.

What are the so called "real Muslims" emulating? .. How to teach their grandkids how to behead someone and smile for camera while saying "allah ho akbar"?.



Exactly, I'm certain they (radiullah hu anhu) would not believe they are in a country of muslims, and this is exactly the impression Abdur Raheem Green came away with after visiting Pakistan.He didn't see any Islam, only the kufr of the elitist crowd on the one hand and the kufr of the deprived underclass on the other.Its not surprising he arrived at the conclusion that he did.

A small mind see's what it wants to. This is propaganda at its best. The good thing is this wahabi ideology will not survive another decade, and I thank Allah for that. They have set this country and many others 20 years. They have made us beggars and they will be punished for it in this world and the next.

I mean for him to see palmistry outlets operating openly everywhere must have come as a shock,this practice is major kufr, yet like he said everywhere you look in Pakistani cities you see the big hand sign advertising this heinous practice.These palm readers apart from being kaafirs are charlatans who prey on those who are foolish enough to pay for their services.

And so it is, I totally agree that it is a backward practice and was strongly looked down upon by the prophet. All you need to do is educate the population rather than calling them kafirs. You will get a better response with explaining your point than boasting how much of a better muslim you are.

Its unfortunate that all the religions of the world are now catering to each and every individual as to how they feel they would like to practice it. Religion is dead. Personal preferences have emerged.

 

[forcetrip]

Why are you digressing from the subject? Are you obsessed with the Taliban? Why on earth mention them here? Why do you automatically link Islam or a discussion on Islam to the Taliban?
Why are you talking total rubbish?

Then call the taliban "kafirs" .. Then I will not confuse your statements with the ones they are making.

 

[nitesh28]

I would not comment on what he said as i dont know what he said but i remember an article a good one that said that Pakistan is not as Islamic as being portrayed and India is not as secular as being portrayed.

will try to find that it is a good read

please give me a link i would like to read this article

 

[Awesome]

I'll prove with the Quran alone. Not a SINGLE ayat has been written in the Quran that says Music is haraam.

Yes, all the other vices of Pakistan, they are all there and also mentioned in the Quran. Not this.

His name is Abdullah Green.

All of the things he said are 100% accurate according to the Shariah.

Sad but true.

^@ all the guys rejecting his statement:

just prove with Quran and Sahih Hadith, everything you guys are saying or everything which is happening now in Pakistan as Halal or allowed. You can call it whatever you want but the Islam of the Quran and the Hadith this is not.

Lets do one good thing though, if its bad, let us have the courage to call it bad, if it is wrong, let us have the courage to call it wrong. The first step in curing a disease, is always accepting you are ill to begin with.

 

[Awesome]

Pakistan's Mullahism is un-Islamic.

 

[Khajur]

I think the speaker should've said that Pakistan is not a muslim country by his standards.

Then listeners would have clear leverage to judge his comments based on their standards.

 

[Righteous_Fire]

I'll prove with the Quran alone. Not a SINGLE ayat has been written in the Quran that says Music is haraam.

(sigh) ...........

Spite of despondance
of the inhuman dearth​

It is sad how many times I have to tell Muslims about Islam. My dear brother and Kinsman Asim Bro! before we start again let me say:

1) No this is not my version of Islam it is Allah's, his Quran's and his Rasool's.
2) And No, I am not a Mullah I hate the so called Mullahs.
3) And no I am not a fanatic I am a sane Muslim.
4) And No I am not joking this is God's religion, fixed, unchanging to the end of days.



Music and the Quran and Sahih Hadith

1 -- Al-Isra 17:64​

"And Istafiz [literally:befool them/call to them] those whom you can among them with your voice ..." [God addressing Lucifer]

2 -- Luqman 31:6​

"And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allah, the Verses of the Qur'an) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment (in the Hell-Fire)."

Note Ibn Masood RA was one of the foremost Scholars of the Quran, infact Rasoolallah SA called him the Muffassir of Quran (A scholar explaining the Quran), Ibn Masood (ra) said about this verse "I swear by the One other than Whom there is no God that it refers to singing [ghinaa].", and he repeated this three times. Ibn Abbaas (ra) said it refered to 'singing and the like' while Jaabir (ra) is reported to view its meaning to signify singing and listening to songs. Many taabi'oon such as Mujaahid, Ikrimah, Mak-hool and Umar ibn Shu'ayb viewed it as a censure of music and song.

Ahadith about it

Hadith - Bukhari (#787) [Also related by Tabari]​

Sa'id ibn Jbayr reported that Ibn 'Abbas said about the verse: "And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks" (31:6), that, "ldle talks means singing and the like."

Bukhari 7:494​

Narrated Abu 'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari that he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks, and the use of musical instruments as lawful. And (from them), there will be some who will stay near the side of a mountain, and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and Allah will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection."

 

[forcetrip]

Idle talk means singing and the like? .. If I had to interpret it it wouldnt mean that. Gossip would sound more like it.

 

[khanz]

looks like the haram police are all here

 

[Righteous_Fire]

looks like the haram police are all here

Nice sarcasm Bro! but that stuff is now pretty much old rustic cliche

Idle talk means singing and the like? .. If I had to interpret it it wouldnt mean that. Gossip would sound more like it.

I hate to ruin it for you two Dude! (epic face palm here) but what you interpret is not going to be as weighty as the words of:

1) Hazrat Abdulla bin Masood RA (named the Mufassir e Quran by the Prophet PBUH)
2) Hazrat Ibn e Abbas RA
3) Hazrat Jabir RA
4) Numerous Taabieen and Taba Taaebieen including Mujaahid, Ikrimah, Mak-hool and Umar ibn Shu'ayb RA