Pakistan - Iran - Love in time of War

[Sinnerman108]

I am ever so amazed at how Iran and Pakistan have managed to remain
as far away as they are; in spite of similar culture, historical linkages,
language etc.
Given both countries have their share of religious goons, but the very argument
of attributing the lack of love to religious goons, would also imply that people
subscribe to the same notion. I cannot accept this.

The lack of love, shall remain a research topic for another day, but if both countries
are to survive, they need each other more than it may appear. Following is my thesis.

The real war, is not between Iran or Pakistan or Afghanistan or India. It is between
China and USA in which the Russians as well as the Indians are trying to make as much
leverage as possible for their own benefits.

China is the beyond doubt rising economic power house; it is definitely the world's production
house. However being the world's production house hasn't yet given China as much dominance
as one would imagine. Considering that everything from toys, to medical equipment, to sports
goods to machinery to aircraft parts to iphones are being manufactured in China; yet they
do not call the shots.

On one part, it is because the companies for which these goods are made are American, and
on the other part it is because GLOBAL trade is in US DOLLAR.

If China acquires a favorable route to warm waters, which implies Middle East ( the world's biggest source of revenue and power ) and North Africa; there would be almost no compulsion to trade in dollar.
China and partner countries can trade in local currencies thus eating out of Dollar's share
and enhancing regional economy.(Some thing the marine corps has diligently tried avoid ).

The easiest way for China ( as well as Russia ) to do so, as mentioned before is to have
access to warm seas and the two best routes are either Iran's Chabahar, or Pakistan's Gawadar.

So long as Iran and Pakistan can understand that both these ports are in Balochistan,
they should understand that both these countries are on the same side of the war.
Both need each other's assurance and friendship for survival and economic prosperity for time to come.

Now, lets try and debate around this.

 

[kollang]

Well there is nothing on the eastern side of hurmuz strait.the strategic part is the western side of it where most energy sources are found.the importance of Chabahar and Gawadar is due to the great logistic and transition potenial.we are trying to connect Chabahr to all corners of country using railway.so countries in central Asia or even coutries like Turkey, Azerbaijan and Armenia find interest in using Chabahar as a transtion hub.

 

[Big Tank]

We share Cultural values with Persians more than anyone else. The only reason we're different from the stinky eastern neighbor despite of living together for so long. Are the Persians and their culture which we Muslims of Sub-Continent had since the beginning. Massive Persian presence in Urdu, Persian Culture in our heritage and attachment towards them makes us different.

I can't even imagine about having Indian culture instead of Persian. Eww man that's a nightmare!

 

[Sinnerman108]

Well there is nothing on the eastern side of hurmuz strait.the strategic part is the western side of it where most energy sources are found.the importance of Chabahar and Gawadar is due to the great logistic and transition potenial.we are trying to connect Chabahr to all corners of country using railway.so countries in central Asia or even coutries like Turkey, Azerbaijan and Armenia find interest in using Chabahar as a transtion hub.

I am afraid that may not fold out as you perceive.

India will never develop Chabahar fully, the basic argument in the original post was simple.

USA does not want China (russia) gaining access to Warm waters through Gawadar or Chabahar.

Thus, they will ensure that these sites remain dangerous, by fermenting trouble there.
Both these sites are in Balochistan.
India has agreed to join the US game plan, and in order to gain leverage over Pakistan and China,
they are partnering with USA.

@SubWater @wanglaokan @cabatli_53

 

[veg]

We share Cultural values with Persians more than anyone else. The only reason we're different from the stinky eastern neighbor despite of living together for so long. Are the Persians and their culture which we Muslims of Sub-Continent had since the beginning. Massive Persian presence in Urdu, Persian Culture in our heritage and attachment towards them makes us different.

I can't even imagine about having Indian culture instead of Persian. Eww man that's a nightmare!

Indian culture is also great.

The reality of today is this that Our language is more closer to Hind than the Persian. Actually, as Pakistani you will feel yourself closer even to the South Indians too as compared to Iranians.

Nevertheless, we are neither going to join India nor Iran, but Pakistan is being Arabized now. Religion has taken over the regional culture.

 

[kollang]

I am afraid that may not fold out as you perceive.

India will never develop Chabahar fully, the basic argument in the original post was simple.

USA does not want China (russia) gaining access to Warm waters through Gawadar or Chabahar.

Thus, they will ensure that these sites remain dangerous, by fermenting trouble there.
Both these sites are in Balochistan.
India has agreed to join the US game plan, and in order to gain leverage over Pakistan and China,
they are partnering with USA.

Well we have comprehensive plan for Chabahar port which includes huge investment by China as well(for a nuclear plant). It's very simple, if India plays us, they are respectfully out.there will be the opportunity for Chinese and Europeans.

 

[pin gu]

our economic zones are mostly in middle and west and north side of our country there is same problem in Pakistan too your economic zones are in east side so our poor sides connected to each other the main reason we are not going to have good trade and better connection is this
our politician need to change their views as soon as possible its not acceptable that average of our eastern citizens income are one fifth of our average of people living in Tehran or Isfahan

 

[Sinnerman108]

Indian culture is also great.

The reality of today is this that Our language is more closer to Hind than the Persian. Actually, as Pakistani you will feel yourself closer even to the South Indians too as compared to Iranians.

Nevertheless, we are neither going to join India nor Iran, but Pakistan is being Arabized now. Religion has taken over the regional culture.

Who are you really ?
Your assertions are not correct

 

[Sina-1]

I am ever so amazed at how Iran and Pakistan have managed to remain
as far away as they are; in spite of similar culture, historical linkages,
language etc.
Given both countries have their share of religious goons, but the very argument
of attributing the lack of love to religious goons, would also imply that people
subscribe to the same notion. I cannot accept this.

The lack of love, shall remain a research topic for another day, but if both countries
are to survive, they need each other more than it may appear. Following is my thesis.

The real war, is not between Iran or Pakistan or Afghanistan or India. It is between
China and USA in which the Russians as well as the Indians are trying to make as much
leverage as possible for their own benefits.

China is the beyond doubt rising economic power house; it is definitely the world's production
house. However being the world's production house hasn't yet given China as much dominance
as one would imagine. Considering that everything from toys, to medical equipment, to sports
goods to machinery to aircraft parts to iphones are being manufactured in China; yet they
do not call the shots.

On one part, it is because the companies for which these goods are made are American, and
on the other part it is because GLOBAL trade is in US DOLLAR.

If China acquires a favorable route to warm waters, which implies Middle East ( the world's biggest source of revenue and power ) and North Africa; there would be almost no compulsion to trade in dollar.
China and partner countries can trade in local currencies thus eating out of Dollar's share
and enhancing regional economy.(Some thing the marine corps has diligently tried avoid ).

The easiest way for China ( as well as Russia ) to do so, as mentioned before is to have
access to warm seas and the two best routes are either Iran's Chabahar, or Pakistan's Gawadar.

So long as Iran and Pakistan can understand that both these ports are in Balochistan,
they should understand that both these countries are on the same side of the war.
Both need each other's assurance and friendship for survival and economic prosperity for time to come.

Now, lets try and debate around this.

If Pakistan would act solely on its own self interest then Iran and Pakistan would have the best relations today. We share similar culture, language, but most importantly an alliance makes perfect sense from a military and economic point of view.

The main problem is Pakistans shortage of cash! This has resulted some of your main policies to be influenced by China (against India) and Saudi (against Iran). I am not criticizing the alliances you've made. Actually I think that Pakistan has been balancing its relations to various powers in a delicate manner. However it is important to note that what is benificial for Saudi, China or US is not by default beneficial for Pakistan as well, e.g. What are you gaining by fighting the Indians? Or what is the benefits for Pakistan that some wahabist groups are running free in the county plotting against Iran?

Personally I think that relations between Pakistan and Iran will flourish when Saudi and US influences are reduced to a minimum. Until then it will be difficult for your policy makers to maneuver freely and in 100% Pakistani interest.

 

[Zhukov]

Before Islamic Revolution Iran was a staunch Ally of Pakistan.
After 1979 both Pakistan and Iran Saw Redical Shifts from being Progressive moderate Cultures and Countries to Extremes.
Iran Become a Shia State Under Ruhullah Khumeini And Pakistan Became a Salafi Influenced Extremist State Under Zia ul Haq. Compare to Bhutto and Reza Shah). And the Unstopable rheoteric of Mr Khomeini that his version of Revolution should be Exported to all countries of the region.
This Insecurity Unfortunatley befelled on Shia Communities in the whole region who had nothing to do with what Ruhullah Khomeini wanted. Mass murder of Shias Started in Pakistan in the name of Protection of Sihaba R.A after rising Salafi influence and refreshed sunni shia rivalry of centuries old being promulgated purposefully to uneducated masses. Which Irked Relations between the neighbors due to persecution of Shias in Pakistan.
And Things got totally out of hand in 90s when Pakistan supported Taliban in Afghanistan.
And It further augmented by Iran And India Being on same page in Afghanistan and Then Rise of India as a Major Economic power being a neutral market free of Western Pressure to the Sanction crumbled Iran. And Indian Support is always Attached with a Condition of Hostility toward Pakistan.
So yes "Kuch shehar ke Log bhi Zalim they Kuch hamen Marney ka Shoq bhi tha" Tale of To Strong Allies turned hostile.
And I am sad that except for Moderate and Educated people of Pakistan. Lesser Educated Salafis Deobandis and even Sufis have such profound Hatred Toward Shias that it is mind boggling. Things that doesn't matter at all and technically are absurd to qualify for being a criteria to hate a community that some 14 15 centuries ago Mr A did Some Presumed thing to Mr B and You speak ill of Mr C so is hate you and i will kill you and Neither Mr A B or C is a Prophet of God.

 

[Sinnerman108]

If Pakistan would act solely on its own self interest then Iran and Pakistan would have the best relations today. We share similar culture, language, but most importantly an alliance makes perfect sense from a military and economic point of view.

The main problem is Pakistans shortage of cash! This has resulted some of your main policies to be influenced by China (against India) and Saudi (against Iran). I am not criticizing the alliances you've made. Actually I think that Pakistan has been balancing its relations to various powers in a delicate manner. However it is important to note that what is benificial for Saudi, China or US is not by default beneficial for Pakistan as well, e.g. What are you gaining by fighting the Indians? Or what is the benefits for Pakistan that some wahabist groups are running free in the county plotting against Iran?

Personally I think that relations between Pakistan and Iran will flourish when Saudi and US influences are reduced to a minimum. Until then it will be difficult for your policy makers to maneuver freely and in 100% Pakistani interest.

I can agree with your assertions, and I believe the same applies to Iran as well in equal measure.

However as I already mentioned, the coming war is not between the regional players.
It will be bigger.