Pakistan & Iran Joint Naval Drill

[Arsalan]

To all the people jumping with joy at these drills, let me inform you that Iranians hate us. we had very close relationship with them during the Shah's regime, but not anymore. If you don't believe me just go and check Iranian military forum. I went there thinking that Iran and Pakistan are brotherly nations, but after being there and reading what they write about Pakistan and Pakistani people, i have changed my mind. They actually call Pakistan a terrorist nation and are actively calling for the destruction of the country.

I have tried to reason with them to understand where the hatred is coming from, but its no use. we would be better off keeping them as far away as possible and stop calling them brotherly nation coz they are not brotherly at all.

So what do you suggest? Just live in isolation? Who loves us anyway? China? Turkey may be? who else would you add to this list?

Plus note that there is not much love or hate between countries. There are just national interests. If the national interests of two nations overlap and they can find some mutual interest they will become allies. This said, the factor of religion and race cannot be simple thrown out here. These things do matter to some extent, even if it is just as a tool to find some mutual interest.

For your analysis of Iran-Pakistan relation, i agree that there are problems but understand this, we cannot afford to just walk away from this situation. We are fast losing friends in the world and there is no way one can survive in this modern day global village all by himself. We need friends and any little help must be welcomed. The global alliances can change pretty fast, you just need to be on your toes when such developments occur!

 

[graphican]

That was the time when Raza Shah used to rule Iran, a friend of Pakistan. Since 1979, the iranian revolution came, Iran remains hostile and unfriendly towards Pakistan till today.

We should forget what Iran did in the past and should see what they are doing now. Damaging Pakistan's security, allowing Indians to operate on their soil....

Through exercises with us, they'll learn all our secrets and tactics and will possibly share it with Indians.

Iran is dependent on India for economic reasons. They do not share culture, they do not share faith, they do not share enemies or friends. If Iran's economic interests are more aligned with China and Pakistan than India, it would easily side our way.

Recalling, one of the highest approval rating Iran enjoys is in Pakistan.

 

[Imad.Khan]

So what do you suggest? Just live in isolation? Who loves us anyway? China? Turkey may be? who else would you add to this list?

Plus note that there is not much love or hate between countries. There are just national interests. If the national interests of two nations overlap and they can find some mutual interest they will become allies. This said, the factor of religion and race cannot be simple thrown out here. These things do matter to some extent, even if it is just as a tool to find some mutual interest.

For your analysis of Iran-Pakistan relation, i agree that there are problems but understand this, we cannot afford to just walk away from this situation. We are fast losing friends in the world and there is no way one can survive in this modern day global village all by himself. We need friends and any little help must be welcomed. The global alliances can change pretty fast, you just need to be on your toes when such developments occur!

There is a thing called honour and self respect. If one nation calls the other brothers and the other nation calls the first wahabi terrorists, then what do you do?

Anyway i am not saying to live in isolation, have trade with them but stop calling iranian a brotherly nation.

 

[Arsalan]

There is a thing called honour and self respect. If one nation calls the other brothers and the other nation calls the first wahabi terrorists, then what do you do?.

If you really want to ask me, i will try and resolve the differences via debate and dialogue!
Plus i am sick tired of this Wahabi and Shia and Sunni crap! We will need to be Muslims to be connected via that bond and have to be humans to be able to work together for betterment of both as you indicated in your post.

 

[Imad.Khan]

Dont go by internet forums to understand the perceptions other nations have of you. Internet forums especially those of defence related issues tend to have a lot of nationalists, and emotions run high whenever incidents resulting in the death of their soldiers are involved. Iranian solders have died in Balochistan at the hands of smugglers and terrorists, no doubt about it. They blame Pakistan for a lack of control and monitoring of the border region. We are starting to do this now with Afghanistan and will gradually move down to the Iranian border as well (CPEC demands a stable Balochistan region). Therefore relations with Iran should improve, especially since China has agreed to fund the Pakistani part of the IP gas pipeline.

Making enemies where non exist is extreme folly. Granted Iranians arent pro Pakistan on Indo-Pak issues, but that doesnt mean they have to be anti-Pak either. We need to ensure that the Indians arent able to use the Iranians against us and that means we have to work with the Iranians to understand our differences. The more hate we have for Iran, the more they will lean towards India, and trust me, given that more than 70% of our borders are shared with hostile nations (India + Afghanistan), we do not need a hostile Iran as well. At the end of the day international relations are complex and things can change overnight. No point in holding grudges against anyone. You never know, yesterdays enemy might be your todays friend

very sensible post,

 

[Penguin]

A bit off topic.
But can sound signature of submarines be recorded, and later used to trace them?
I'm sorry if it sounds really daft but I know very little about submarine warfare.
@Penguin Can you perhaps shed light onto this, please?

SvenSvensonov has explained already

You might find these of interest
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_signature
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_acoustics

Plenty more stuff out there eg under : submarine + signature or "accoustic signature"

 

[Winchester]

I m shocked, man. OMG, it means Iranians must have had recorded sound signatures of our submarine which can be used to trace our submarine in future.....They are also very close to Indians.......

To all those Pakistanis who were very happy on joint drills with Iranians....Do u know what we had done here? We always hammered our leg, every time.

I guess you know better than the "idiots" at Naval headquarters

 

[Moon]

If it makes you feel any better, here's a pic of a NATO P-3N (Belonging to the RNoAF) spying on INS Vikramaditya.

What's the relation to the topic? Not a thing.



Bringing out your critical assets during exercises with an on-off "friend" like Iran wasn't ever going to be the most prudent of actions, but spying works both ways and you can learn the signature of Iranian surface ships or submarines if you're taking part in such an exercise.

The Agosta class submarines are very quiet when used properly, so it'd be a good idea not to allow an adversery or potential adversary any tidbit they can get on the submarine's signature.

But look, can it be done? Yes. Is it being done? We don't know, but the threat is overblown.

During international exercises, even those with potential adversaries like China, we involve our submarines.

Measures are taken to enhance the signature of the submarines, must the same way a Luneberg Lens modified the RCS of an F-22:

The PN isn't short on brains (just funds or modern equipment) and they likely know of the threat too and take measures to avoid giving Iran or India too much insight.

We probably will never have any sort of conflict with Iran, but let's admit it that Pakistan and Iran haven't exactly been good allies.
But acoustic signature can be recorded and given to other navies, right?
I'm probably thinking too much, but I guess we shouldn't bring submarines into exercises, at least not Agosta 90s.
For now.

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

Iran is dependent on India for economic reasons. They do not share culture, they do not share faith, they do not share enemies or friends. If Iran's economic interests are more aligned with China and Pakistan than India, it would easily side our way.

Recalling, one of the highest approval rating Iran enjoys is in Pakistan.

Agreed....But given such bad relations with them as we have with them, right now. Lack of trust is too high on both sides due to Kulbhusan Jhadev, Mullah Mansoor etc. Don't you think sending top notch submarine in exercises with Iranians is dangerous? They'll record sound signatures which can be used later in future to trace our submarine....

@Mr.Meap

 

[Moon]

Agreed....But given such bad relations with them as we have with them, right now. Lack of trust is too high on both sides due to Kulbhusan Jhadev, Mullah Mansoor etc. Don't you think sending top notch submarine in exercises with Iranians is dangerous? They'll record sound signatures which can be used later in future to trace our submarine....

@Mr.Meap

That's what I fear. But in general Agosta 90s shouldn't be out in exercises.

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

We probably will never have any sort of conflict with Iran, but let's admit it that Pakistan and Iran haven't exactly been good allies.
But acoustic signature can be recorded and given to other navies, right?
I'm probably thinking too much, but I guess we shouldn't bring submarines into exercises, at least not Agosta 90s.
For now.

This is what i m barking on this forum......Just look at the pictures.....Iranians be like......Oh these stupid Pakistanis! Just look what they bring....A french made submarine......while we are having decades old surface vessels......Very stupid of these Pakistanis.....we'll learn everything from them, record sound signatures and then pass it on India due to any crisis b/w Pakistan and India or b/w Pakistan and Iran.......I don't mind bringing your top notch weapons when exercises with Turkey, China or other friendly countries but with Iranians? I won't even share my pencil with them unless i have full confidence that they won't share my secret of Pencil with my adversary....@MastanKhan do you agree? Is this correct decision to bring Agosta90B with Iranians? What were hose fools

I must say....Soldiers are only good at guns...They don't have such sharpness like we civilians have. Soldiers are stupid....Civilians must take responsibilities..... otherwise these soldiers will do blunders.

 

[GriffinsRule]

What are you people worried about? Iran somehow finding all the secrets about our subs ... or giving them to India?

If its the first, most countries try to get as much information about other countries as they can (friendly or not). Pakistan, I am sure does the same thing along with everyone else.

And if its the latter you are worried about, then it makes even less sense. Rest assured, there are other countries that we have naval exercises that have just as good or better relations w India than Iran ... namely the US and France (the manufacturer of the subs). So if there was anything to be "given" to Indians, they would already have it. So stop with the fear mongering and speculations.

 

[zubair_chachar]

Good news!!
Great in fact!
I hope to see more cooperation between the two neighboring brotherly nations. We need to rise above the sectarian divides and rise together to face the challenges of coming times.

They are not our brothers

 

[Arsalan]

They are not our brothers

You are entitled to your personal opinion dear!
Just do not expect everyone else to agree with that as well.

 

[Umar Jarral]

I m worry about one thing....Our closeness with Iran in military exercises/technologies may harm us as Iranians, close to Indians, will learn our tactics/tech/strategies and will then share it with India.....We need to watch out, our stupidity regarding Iran has already caused us much damage.....

@shah1398 what say?




On what basis you're claiming this?

Yes you can think like this at the moment but what if I tell you that Iran was in our ideal naighbours since Pakistan came Into being.
Then from where the problem came?
The issues are not very difficult to sort out.
So it is very good for both countries.

Just worried about our capabilities goin into enemy hands....However i have been clarified....

And pls don't forget this is pak army.
Allhamdulilah they never let us down