Pakistan India Alliance ?

[kaku]

Can anyone give suggestion how we indians and pakistani solve this kashmir dispute.

I think Pak's govt. and Pak's people want to solve the kasmir dispute.
But some pakistan occupied kashmir's idiot extremist do not want any solution for kashmir. They only want to kill innocent people.

And india also want peace but cannot remove its army from kasmir as if indian govt do this thing than there is bomb blast everyday in india.

I think both. govt come through a treaty to making kashmir independent state and not invading in kashmir by both country after making it independent.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Can anyone give suggestion how we indians and pakistani solve this kashmir dispute.

I think Pak's govt. and Pak's people want to solve the kasmir dispute.
But some pakistan occupied kashmir's idiot extremist do not want any solution for kashmir. They only want to kill innocent people.

And india also want peace but cannot remove its army from kasmir as if indian govt do this thing than there is bomb blast everyday in india.

I think both. govt come through a treaty to making kashmir independent state and not invading in kashmir by both country after making it independent.

I think acceptable solution would be-
No border changes officially.
total demilitarization of both kashmirs.
total autonomy to unified kashmir.with promise of total economic access and aid from both nations,while on paper loc remains official border.
Both nations promise not to take any military action to suddenly try a occupation of all kashmir after demilitarization.
Total demilitarization of siachen too.

This will be first step.
2nd step, reduction of respective militaries and removal of mobile elements that can quickly seize territory like tanks on the borders and switching them to other borders.

3rd step-total trade access with reduced customs.
Total visa access.
More country to country to buses,airlines.
Beginning of joint economic projects like indian iron and coal to pak,pakistani natural gas to india.Maybe the IPI project.
Beginning of joint military exercises and military cooperation.
Slowly bringing into influence and freindship more nations into the group.Pakistan can help with afganisthan and help india resolve its issues with china peacefully.And india can bring in sri lanka,bangladesh bhutan and myanmar into economic freindship.

4rth step-Military alliance,mutual protection pact with all SAARC countries mentioned above and total economic co-operation.
Beginning of reducing personal militaries and building a united alliance military like nato with soldiers from all countries.With bases in all countries.

5th state- we can join with china and japan to form a asian alliance of economic freindship and cooperation.Not necessarily a military alliance but economic freindship and non aggression pact.We can bring in russia too.India can aid in this regard.This step will not be so much to counter anybody like us but to decide our own destiny.
With these steps we will finally be able to create a new economic superpower and be a strong miltary force who no one will want to attack.

But,this is very doubtful not because its impossible because the leaders in both countries don't have the vision,foresight or backbone to attempt these things.But it would be greatness if we could achieve this.

Thanks.

 

[sab]

Can we talk about 'India-Pakistan dispute resolution' before we build castles in the sky of 'India-Pakistan alliance'?

Avoiding the central sources of tensions between the two countries is not a good way to go about building a strong and holistic relationship.

Most of the desputes are unresolvable because of the ego associated with the public of both countries. No political leadership would dare to go for a logical solution which have chance to be considered a betrayal bu the mass at home.
So expect sudden shower of love and affection of both sides which might melt the ego.

Anyway, I believe a South-Asian bloc with free movement of man, capital, investment and a combined mechanism for prudent management of resources of the bloc is not that impossible. Who can say our future generations may be smarter than us. May be Kashmir, which is a major problem between India and Pakistan will be freely accessable by both as it was historically.

 

[T-Faz]

These comments sums up everything.

This is fake, infact what Macaulay said was very helpful to India.

Are we to keep the people of India ignorant in order that we may keep them submissive? Or do we think that we can give them knowledge without awakening ambition? Or do we mean to awaken ambition and to provide it with no legitimate vent? Who will answer any of these questions in the affirmative? Yet one of them must be answered in the affirmative, by every person who maintains that we ought permanently to exclude the natives from high office. I have no fears. The path of duty is plain before us: and it is also the path of wisdom, of national prosperity, of national honor.

Read here and learn.

Sunday Posts: Lord Macaulay's Quote on India

 

[Realist]

This is a really good thread.

Reading about the history of the subcontinent, Tipu Sultan, The Mughals, The Delhi Sultanate, things i have been told by my parents and teachers to have been part of my culture, is also the culture of India. These bonds are pretty strong, and it is saddening to see such hatred and mistrust between the two countries, that have so much in common.

I have had many debates of this kind with the older generation. Needless to say, they didnt find the idea appealing, but i guess there is hope for the youth to pick up the movement and build trust between the two.

What kind of trust building gestures would you guys like to see between the 2 countries?

What are the general attitudes towards each other in the countries themselves?

How can perceptions of the countries be improved?

How far are the two counties willing to trust each other?

 

[Speaker]

Reading about the history of the subcontinent, Tipu Sultan, The Mughals, The Delhi Sultanate, things i have been told by my parents and teachers to have been part of my culture, is also the culture of India.

Just to add to the list, the history of great civilizations like the Indus valley, and great dynasties like Nanda and Maurya are also part of our culture.

 

[Realist]

Just to add to the list, the history of great civilizations like the Indus valley, and great dynasties like Nanda and Maurya are also part of our culture.

Yes i missed that out.

Collectively we have a lot to be proud. Our country blunted the courage of Alexander the Greats army, the same army he used to stampede through Asia Minor, Egypt, Persia, but alas, he could not get past the Indus for long, and had to turn back.

The Mauryas made Taxila one of the greatest cities on the planet, a place of eductaion and culture.

The Indus Valley civ had a lot of great things, hypocaust heating, planned streets, sewer works, all over 1000 years before anyone else had dreamt of the same things.

On top of that you have the great accomplishments of the Mughals.

Not many countries can boast so much history and culture.

I hope that happier memories of the past foster happier friendships for the future.

 

[sab]

Just felt the thread should be active....

 

[Fireurimagination]

I think acceptable solution would be-
No border changes officially.
total demilitarization of both kashmirs.
total autonomy to unified kashmir.with promise of total economic access and aid from both nations,while on paper loc remains official border.
Both nations promise not to take any military action to suddenly try a occupation of all kashmir after demilitarization.
Total demilitarization of siachen too.

This will be first step.
2nd step, reduction of respective militaries and removal of mobile elements that can quickly seize territory like tanks on the borders and switching them to other borders.

3rd step-total trade access with reduced customs.
Total visa access.
More country to country to buses,airlines.
Beginning of joint economic projects like indian iron and coal to pak,pakistani natural gas to india.Maybe the IPI project.
Beginning of joint military exercises and military cooperation.
Slowly bringing into influence and freindship more nations into the group.Pakistan can help with afganisthan and help india resolve its issues with china peacefully.And india can bring in sri lanka,bangladesh bhutan and myanmar into economic freindship.

4rth step-Military alliance,mutual protection pact with all SAARC countries mentioned above and total economic co-operation.
Beginning of reducing personal militaries and building a united alliance military like nato with soldiers from all countries.With bases in all countries.

5th state- we can join with china and japan to form a asian alliance of economic freindship and cooperation.Not necessarily a military alliance but economic freindship and non aggression pact.We can bring in russia too.India can aid in this regard.This step will not be so much to counter anybody like us but to decide our own destiny.
With these steps we will finally be able to create a new economic superpower and be a strong miltary force who no one will want to attack.

But,this is very doubtful not because its impossible because the leaders in both countries don't have the vision,foresight or backbone to attempt these things.But it would be greatness if we could achieve this.

Thanks.

Something on these lines is very much possible I believe, will such thing acceptable to Pakistan?

Also things will have to be jointly done by the two countries like make IT corporation together or make movies together, both will have to work together to come closer

 

[somebozo]

Contanary to popular belief, India and Pakistan are partition across the lines of cultrual division rather than religious of ethinical ignore the case of bangladesh which was joined to us soley on basis of religion.
The civilization of India is ethinically "Indian" meaning they have their own culture derived from thousands of years of history. On the Pakistani side, civilization is mainly Aryo-Persian. Intense rivalry has exisited for hundreds of years between the Indian and Aryo-Persian civilization. The Aryo-Persian civilzation repeatedly invated India. One must have read about Arayan invasion of India. Hence whatever name your call it, bitter ties between India and Pakistan are not a new cultivation but rather exsisted through out a very long history.

Therefore, two competing civilization may forge friendly ties but building alliances is far fetched.

Regarding solving Kashmir dispute, lets hold a refrendum and people of kashmir decide their fate. Unfortunately, it is Indians who have been denying the right of refrendum approved by UN.

 

[Ahmad]

solve kashmire problem and you will see a rapid progress not only in your bi lateral relations, but an enormous development in terms of economy, social issues, education, poverty etc, as this cold war between the 2 countries have sucked up big part of your efforts and resources.

 

[assth85]

I think both countries have great potential if they work together an alliance is surely possible.Overall i think people on both sides of the borders people want peace and work together they want to invest in each others countries.

 

[assth85]

Yes i think once the kashmir issue is resolved peace will be inevitable.

 

[roach]

An excellent thread, Thanks BB.

There are great suggestions from all sides, and I feel that the people of both nations genuinely want to move forward and leave the past behind.

My take on the problem:
Baggage of the past, which is wrapped up in the cling-film of ego and with another final coating of cling-film: External pressure.

I'm no conspiracy theorist, but I really do believe that there are vested interests (on both sides) that do not want Indo-Pak enmity to end. There's something in this for someone somewhere. I'm not even going to get into the who and where.

Ultimately, the thrust must come from the GRASSROOTS and from the TOP.
The common man must shed his baggage, and some maa-ka-laal leaders have to take the bull by the horns and just tackle the Kashmir issue, besides others. We need a strong leader who can say "We need put our ego aside and make some serious decisions here"

Koi toh aayega. I have faith.

 

[billi]

solve kashmire problem and you will see a rapid progress not only in your bi lateral relations, but an enormous development in terms of economy, social issues, education, poverty etc, as this cold war between the 2 countries have sucked up big part of your efforts and resources.

Not true, if kashmir issue is not resolved CLEANLY, then it will be mayhem ni the Indian subcontinent and there is a chance we will again be in the doldrums