Pakistan India Alliance ?

[keeninterest]

I think we give too much importance to an outside gora than look at the follies committed by we ourselves, the populace of our two countries, and by the vested interests that lie with in our ambit who do not want us to have cordial relations, be it the right wing extremists, or the elites that form the armed forces and the political class, and till the time we ourselves do not have the resolve, rest assured outsiders will make the most of a given situation, and as is human, it is too easy to point a finger at an outsider, than point it back! Seriously when is it that we will take our own responsibilities?

I will like to talk about the Kashmir issue than shy away from the issue. Is Kashmir really an issue at all that it has been made out to be?

India has a secular fabric to guard, to top it the instrument of accession and rest assured by no means will India ever allow Kashmir to end up as a province of Pakistan and there is no way I see northern areas and pak administered Kashmir as a part of India, neither by means of military aggression nor by exhaustive and extensive international diplomacy from either side and there is absolutely no scope for any outside mediator, until and unless ofcourse the two countries are incapable to resolve the dispute, a feeling which has no resonance in India, and by no means will the two countries ever allow an independent country to spring up, there is just too much at stake, and that is largely the reason when recently gilgit and baltistan were declared a part of Pakistan other than the Indian kashmiris there were hardly any voices of decent heard from India.

The only viable solution that will happen is where LoC will be declared as IB or may be a peace border or some other nomenclature given, but where there will unrestricted movement of kashmiris across the present day LoC without any visa requirements, with trade which levies no taxes/duties and the same area of dispute holds every potential to become the very reason of peaceful coexistence between the two countries. It’s a simple concept, but hard to digest since a lot of extensive propaganda has gone in to create it into an issue which today arouses a lot of emotional passions, and it is follies like these on which both need to put in a lot of hard work to do to undo the damage caused as a result of senseless propaganda. If we cant come to terms to this, then people can continue with their rhetoric, wont make a difference in the ground situation, only the miseries of average kashimiri will compile, and in the bigger games that get played I really doubt anyone really bothers as to what happens to the average dude who is taking the most brunt.

Alliance or no alliance, what I want to see happen is India come up as a destination which can attract the best of the talent from all over the Indian sub-continent in most fields be it r&d, education, economics who see India as a home away from home where they can earn their bread and butter much like what happens in bollywood and work for the dream we call “India” and through this movement of people the trade between member states of saarc liberalizes much like as it happens in EU though with the requirement of travel visas since we in India do face abject poverty which needs to be addressed first and unrestricted travel wont do any good. The assertion is, why should an extremely good talent leave the confines of almost similar culture India provides to the one people find back home, and given the asymmetry in culture they are bound to adjust better and yield better results, and if India strides ahead, so dose the surrounding area by various mechanisms put in place.

I will end this piece with the similar thoughts with which i started, will we be the masters of our destinies or will be let our follies compile and blame others for it. Its our choice in making!

 

[fallstuff]

It just maybe possible. A few years need to go by without any major flare ups which just may bring some cooler heads from both side together.

 

[Kompromat]

Asian alliance is a big dream , the first thing we need to acchieve is Peace between nations and the resolutions to our problems.

If we develop an Understanding between our People and leaders , goraz cant do anything.
Here is an example : We get to a stage where we reach a peace accord and we sign a treaty of not waging war against each other , ultimately our millitary spendings will go down and so will the western Arms market sales.



Keep moving forward is the key.

 

[IndianArmy]

To make this Possible, we need Mutual trust, No Visas pasports to travel within India,Pakistan,China,Sri lanka,Bangladesh,Bhutan,Russia... A toll Booth must be set up like in europian nations....

Major alliance, most of the worlds top 10 Militaries are In Asia, So an Alliance would bring the Rise of Asia.... Should have a common currency system. Which would decrease the external borrowings and worlds future top two economic Giants are Neighbours... Why worry...

 

[Paksindhi]

As salam o alikum , Hello , Namastay & sat sri akal to everyone.


I have thought about writting this thread many times before i got my words together because its quitea senstive issue.

After discussing with some senior fellows on this forum i have decided to open this thread to see that how the youth of Pakistan and India see their future & how do they want to run this region.

Pakistan and India when put together have a massive potential for almost anything known to power indicators , be it economy , human capital , Education , science and technology , Millitary , or Nuclear potential.

Now since we have too much power and some people say that Power corrupts , this massive potential can be used in two forms.

1: It can be used for Progress and the prosperity of our nations .

2: We can abuse it as we did for last 60+ years and destroy each other.

Goras (Westerners) Used to call this Land the "Golden sparrow" but we divided this land for some purposes so we overcame our differences that we had but Britts installed a bone of contention between us called the "Kashmir Dispute".

In order to keep us fighting and keep their arms Industries running that attract Billions of dollars from our Region they never bothered to get us sit together and overcome our disputes even when they were a blink away from getting resolved.

We have never been offered a medeator to solve our problems because they know that if we did solve our problems these people will not buy our Billions and billions dollars worth of weapons and would take a Bigger chunk of the Global economy,both factors effect their dominance.

Frankly they dont give a damn if we fight and put Nukes on each other and wipe this region out of the face of earth.

They will laugh at our stupidity and will celebrate , they ain't our friends , they are enemies.

Another dillema that we face is "Bombings" and acts of Terrorism, If you look at the sequence of these acts you will realize that they have happened around a point of time when we were almost sitting on the table for discussing our core issues and maybe we would proceed with a resolution and an ultimate solution by sacrificing from both sides.

Who does that and why at that time ,This is the question of the day.
Moreover i have a weird belief (Many may not agree with me on this though)

I believe that all of these acts of terrorism are being supported and controlled from way beyond our borders , someone is controlling it from far away.

Considering the amount of poverty and illiteracy in our region it is not hard to imagine that people from the opposite sides of the border can be "Bought out" to do acts of terror on the other side.

To give us a flavour of enmity it is important to get people from other side of the border to come and Kill people that the blame can be put on the Govt's .

This game has been on for dacades and there is no stopping in sight , Pakistan and India both can be Friends and partners provided if we show some mercy upon ourselves.

We both have common enemies , those who wont dare to Fight us in the battlefield but they know how to keep our Corrupt leaders Fighting.

This Thread will Look at the prospects of Pakistan India alliance in the future , beyond our disputes we have to look that how the future would be if we became Friends and gave up our stupid behaviours.
Its upto the Youth of both sides to decide and to decide for their comming generations too.

The choice is clear , Enemies or Friends , make yours and work for it & i promise the difference between the people is not bigger enough that it cant be reached .

I have taken the first step from this side now Share your Ideas , its Time !!!

Note: Please Try to Think beyond Kashmir solution , way beyond.

Thank you Gentelmen & Ladies offcourse

"May peace be with you all" Black Blood.

Sorry brother but this is the first time i have to disagree with you, call me short sighted or what ever.

Only thing Pak-india can agree on is that we live on same planet, that's it.

 

[IndianArmy]

When Both of us were In trouble where was the west, China stood by pakistan and Russia stood by India... Where were those who claimed to have wanted a peaceful subcontinent???

Only China and Russia stood by us, and If we Unite, It would be a major alliance of power... Imagine, Russia,China,India and Pakistan along with sri lanka, Bangladesh and Bhutan

 

[Indiarox]

As salam o alikum , Hello , Namastay & sat sri akal to everyone.


I have thought about writting this thread many times before i got my words together because its quitea senstive issue.

After discussing with some senior fellows on this forum i have decided to open this thread to see that how the youth of Pakistan and India see their future & how do they want to run this region.

Pakistan and India when put together have a massive potential for almost anything known to power indicators , be it economy , human capital , Education , science and technology , Millitary , or Nuclear potential.

Now since we have too much power and some people say that Power corrupts , this massive potential can be used in two forms.

1: It can be used for Progress and the prosperity of our nations .

2: We can abuse it as we did for last 60+ years and destroy each other.

Goras (Westerners) Used to call this Land the "Golden sparrow" but we divided this land for some purposes so we overcame our differences that we had but Britts installed a bone of contention between us called the "Kashmir Dispute".

In order to keep us fighting and keep their arms Industries running that attract Billions of dollars from our Region they never bothered to get us sit together and overcome our disputes even when they were a blink away from getting resolved.

We have never been offered a medeator to solve our problems because they know that if we did solve our problems these people will not buy our Billions and billions dollars worth of weapons and would take a Bigger chunk of the Global economy,both factors effect their dominance.

Frankly they dont give a damn if we fight and put Nukes on each other and wipe this region out of the face of earth.

They will laugh at our stupidity and will celebrate , they ain't our friends , they are enemies.

Another dillema that we face is "Bombings" and acts of Terrorism, If you look at the sequence of these acts you will realize that they have happened around a point of time when we were almost sitting on the table for discussing our core issues and maybe we would proceed with a resolution and an ultimate solution by sacrificing from both sides.

Who does that and why at that time ,This is the question of the day.
Moreover i have a weird belief (Many may not agree with me on this though)

I believe that all of these acts of terrorism are being supported and controlled from way beyond our borders , someone is controlling it from far away.

Considering the amount of poverty and illiteracy in our region it is not hard to imagine that people from the opposite sides of the border can be "Bought out" to do acts of terror on the other side.

To give us a flavour of enmity it is important to get people from other side of the border to come and Kill people that the blame can be put on the Govt's .

This game has been on for dacades and there is no stopping in sight , Pakistan and India both can be Friends and partners provided if we show some mercy upon ourselves.

We both have common enemies , those who wont dare to Fight us in the battlefield but they know how to keep our Corrupt leaders Fighting.

This Thread will Look at the prospects of Pakistan India alliance in the future , beyond our disputes we have to look that how the future would be if we became Friends and gave up our stupid behaviours.
Its upto the Youth of both sides to decide and to decide for their comming generations too.

The choice is clear , Enemies or Friends , make yours and work for it & i promise the difference between the people is not bigger enough that it cant be reached .

I have taken the first step from this side now Share your Ideas , its Time !!!

Note: Please Try to Think beyond Kashmir solution , way beyond.

Thank you Gentelmen & Ladies offcourse

"May peace be with you all" Black Blood.

Ties That Bind
Boosted Indo-Pak trade will bring regional stability


According to the finance minister, the sky's the limit for India-Pakistan economic ties. Considering the projected numbers, his optimism isn't unfounded. It's estimated that annual bilateral trade can potentially reach a robust $10 billion. He has other reasons to be upbeat. For one, geographical proximity means trimmed transportation and operational costs, translating into ease of doing business. For another, heightened trade and investment will bring political returns. Goodwill in civil society will result when borders are made irrelevant through liberal exchange of goods and services.
Clearly, India and Pakistan need to actively pursue better economic relations, more so since trade right now is way below par. While it did jump from $251 million in 2000-01 to $2.3 billion in 2007-08, it dipped by a sizeable 19 per cent to $1.81 billion in 2008-09. If bilateral strain linked to 26/11 played a part here, the point is precisely that boosting business can help reduce it. Plus, consider the gains for the neighbourhood. By one projection, free trade could add around two percentage points to South Asia's growth rate. Sadly, Indo-Pakistani tensions have hobbled trade-linked regional cooperation, as seen at SAARC time and again.
In this context, Pakistan could adhere to a key SAFTA provision enjoining signatories to maintain negative lists of imports. It currently has a positive list for imports from India, including meat, cereals, edible oil, tobacco, chemicals, fertilisers, leather, coffee and tea. While this list has admittedly grown between 2006 and 2009, it's still limited besides giving Indian exporters a headache when identifying dos and don'ts. Free trade goals are better served with clearly enumerated negative lists beyond which an intra-regional open market should operate. As the FM has rightly pointed out, pushing infrastructure for trade and transport must also mark the agenda as a high priority. By 2011, India's looking at a top-class export hub at Attari to facilitate shipping of goods. Integrated customs check posts are being built. A SAARC shipping line is under the scanner as well. India has also sought transit facilities through Pakistan, which ought to be worked out.
Trade-investment synergies will result from cooperation in key sectors such as health and IT. Apart from disseminating the benefits of training and research, both sides can push developmental goals via income and employment generation. South Asian nations have common scourges – poverty, hunger, malnutrition, illiteracy – mandating a joint combat. India and Pakistan have a leading role to play here. Besides fostering mutually beneficial people-to-people contact to spur economic integration, they must help build the regional stability that investors need. Finally, ramped up economic ties will bring what the FM calls a “peace dividend”. There's scarcely a better way to strengthen the subcontinent's growing peace constituency than through shared stakeholding in prosperity and development.

awaiting BB's response

Bilateral trade is good for both and http://img717.imageshack.us/i/flagindia.gif/

 

[Indiarox]

[/URL] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]

The 3rd image is of the$
This signifies that economic trade and in vestment in each other's growth will prevent us from going to war with each other

 

[Om shaanti.........]

Yes, not only India & Pakistan. All the subcontinent , that our fore fathers lived in the british rule. But before that the religious fanatics (in all religions) in all these countries should be wiped out. Then we can live with peace.

 

[T-Faz]

Well here is some good news, let's hope it goes a long way.

We're ready to trust Pakistan, says Krishna - India - The Times of India

 

[IndianArmy]

Well here is some good news, let's hope it goes a long way.

We're ready to trust Pakistan, says Krishna - India - The Times of India

Yes, We are ready to trust Pakistan.... My dear people Are You ready?? If it is... Then No force can separate us

 

[Indiarox]

Well here is some good news, let's hope it goes a long way.

We're ready to trust Pakistan, says Krishna - India - The Times of India

you meen this

We're ready to trust Pakistan, says Krishna
Sachin Parashar & Diwakar, TNN, May 21, 2010, 12.43am IST

Article
Comments (21)



Tags:- Pakistan|India|SM Krishna|trust

NEW DELHI: Keeping aside its disappointments, India is ready to trust Pakistan again. Foreign minister S M Krishna believes that Pakistan will keep the promise to clamp down on terrorist groups targeting India.

"We feel Pakistan will not encourage terror related activities any more," Krishna told TOI on Thursday, reflecting the confidence that the spate of unrelenting terror attacks may have finally woken Pakistan to the folly of indulging terror groups.

Asked how Pakistan could be trusted given its track record, Krishna said, "We proceed on the basis that the Pakistanis are serious about fighting terror. Of late, there have been a number of terror attacks in Pakistan itself directed against the military establishment like in Rawalpindi."

Krishna did express disappointment over Pakistan's response to India's demand for the custody of LeT chief Hafeez Mohammad Saeed who has been identified as one of the masterminds of the 26/11 plot. He brushed aside Islamabad's contention that the evidence gathered by India on Saeed was not strong enough. "We feel that the evidence in the dossier we have prepared makes for a foolproof case which can be used to bring Saeed to justice."

The foreign minister also expressed doubt whether Pakistan's agencies have have conducted any investigation on the basis of the evidence handed over by India on Saeed or whether even the dossier on the LeT chief has been shared with the judiciary. "I think there are certain grey areas", he said.

But coming against the backdrop of evidence of continued operation of 40-odd terror camps, rise in infiltration into Jammu and Kashmir and no let up in the efforts by terror groups to attack mainland targets, Krishna seemed to be willing to trust the intent of Pakistan's Prime Minister.

Even on Saeed's arrest, he did not dismiss Pakistan's argument that whether the LeT boss can be prosecuted or not is for the judiciary to decide. "They have their own judicial system. We know from the past that it can be very assertive. Twice he was taken into custody. Both the times he was let loose by the courts", said the foreign minister.

He, however, stressed that India will not give up on ensuring Saeed's prosecution. "We are not taking our hands off him. We will continue to insist that Pakistan conduct further investigations based on the material we have given to them."

Asked whether he expected Pakistan will give up its selective approach to fighting terror and stop differentiating between terrorists operating on its western border and its eastern border, the foreign minister said: "Terrorism cannot be fought selectively. It has to be fought across the board and we want Pakistan to realise this. It would help both countries if we together make up our minds."

 

[Indiarox]

Yes, not only India & Pakistan. All the subcontinent , that our fore fathers lived in the british rule. But before that the religious fanatics (in all religions) in all these countries should be wiped out. Then we can live with peace.

Ignoring them would be a better choice wiping them out will only create more of their kind

 

[ameer219]

Honestly, I really would love to see both this countries together. I mean we were once part of each other. If Malaysia and Singapore, who were once together, are still good friends with each other, why can't we?

I believe, that both presidents from both countries, should try to portray each other's countries in a good light, Since they are the most influential people in the country. The media can do their part to, by promoting bilateral trade, and promoting each other's country in a good light.

As Pakistanis,we should take the first step to extend our hands, firstly by replying back the same manner as "MFN" to India. Trade is most important, so that we could develop mutual trust among ourselves

We should also try to create a form of committee to tackle poverty together. So we can at least find a common interest among ourselves.

We should also try to create bus rides to India back and forth, and try to promote our culture to them, and the same way they would to us.

The day I wished, that Pakistan and India, would see themselves as brothers, the day, we both Pakistani and Indian, would laugh as how stupid we was to be arguing each other, and we would treasure this new found friendship.

I have not given up, and probably never will, that friendship between both this country will never occur.

 

[IndianArmy]

Has anyone ever thought Why and How the enemity between us started? We are too busy Believing Blindly whats written in the books of the west, We dont listen to what our people say instead believe what the west says, We under estimate ourselves a Lot....