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Pakistan Historian Admits His Country Fudged Records To Claim Victory In 1965 War

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Pakistan "lost terribly in the 1965 war" with India, a Pakistani historian has admitted.

Dispelling "the victory myth", historian and political economist Akbar S Zaidi said there cannot be a bigger lie as Pakistan had lost terribly, Dawn reported on Saturday. Zaidi said people are unaware of this fact because the history taught in Pakistan is from an ideological viewpoint. Zaidi said, "Students are not taught the history of the people of Pakistan. Rather it is focused on the making of Pakistan."

f77dc75a-8598-4c04-951c-bb73b424e6ec_1441519711_725x725.jpg


A War Trophy: Damaged M 48 Patton tank of the Pakistan Army now on display in Amritsar.

Zaidi, who teaches history at the Institute of Business Administration, Karachi, added, "With the celebration of the victory in the 1965 war round the corner, there can be no bigger a lie that Pakistan won the war. We lost terribly in the 1965 war," he said.

The remark comes with Pakistan just two days away from observing Defence Day to mark the 50th anniversary of the 1965 war.

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Soldiers march in front of the India Gate to mark India's victory in the 1965 Indo Pak war.

On when was Pakistan created, he said one obvious answer is it did so on Aug 14, 1947 but he read out an excerpt from a Pakistan Studies textbook in which it was claimed it came into being in 712AD when the Arabs came to Sindh and Multan. "This is utter rubbish!" he said, rejecting the textbook account.

Zaidi also acknowledged that Parsis and Hindus contributed hugely in the educational development of Karachi and in a similar manner the Sikhs in Punjab.
Pakistan Historian Admits His Country Fudged Records To Claim Victory In 1965 War
 
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This thread is going to be pradise for trollers.
 
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Zaidi, who teaches history at the Institute of Business Administration, Karachi, added, "With the celebration of the victory in the 1965 war round the corner, there can be no bigger a lie that Pakistan won the war. We lost terribly in the 1965 war," he said.

And there can be no bigger lie that Pakistan lost terribly in 1965 war, said by me. This Zaidi appears to be a shameless liar. This is for the first time I have heard that Pakistan lost the war terribly. Even the Indians have not made such absurd claims. I wish I was in Karachi, I would have personally slapped this so-called historian who is claimed to be taught at where? IBA, a management institute.

@Indus Falcon: Bhai, iss harami khud saakhta tareekh daan Akbar Zaidi ka zara pata karwain. Yeh kiss gandey khait ki mooli hey. Shakal dekhein is manhoos jhootey ki:

zaidi.JPG


Edit: The original article appeared in DAWN - the known anti-Pakistan newspaper.

'History in Pakistan has been badly treated' - Pakistan - DAWN.COM
 
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Too little too late.
Propaganda has been ingrained so deep in the Pakistani psyche that no amount of truth will curb the ordinary or the educated Pakistani minds.
Its a question of their egos now so brace yourselves for a truck load of ad hominem attacks on the historian.
 
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Chalo aap jeet gayay.ab khush?
 
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Operation Gibraltar: The Pakistani troops who infiltrated Kashmir to start a rebellion
By M Ilyas KhanBBC News, Pakistani-administered Kashmir
  • 5 September 2015
  • From the sectionAsia
_85369783_gettyimages-71831452.jpg
Image copyrightAFP
Image captionThe Kashmir boundary has been a flashpoint for several decades
In August 1965, what looked like an indigenous uprising spread like a jungle fire across the part of Kashmir under Indian control. A month later, India invaded Pakistan in what Pakistanis call an "unprovoked" move. Since the war ended in stalemate, Pakistan holds a victory pageant each year on 6 September to mark the day it fended off a much bigger enemy. But was the uprising in Indian-administered Kashmir really indigenous?

Qurban Ali, 71, is one of the "insurgents" who fought the Indian troops in August 1965.

But he is a native of the Pakistani-administered side of Kashmir, and he was not an insurgent, but a soldier of the Pakistani army's Azad Kashmir (AK) Regiment.

"I was a fresh recruit then, barely 20 years old. I had completed the regimental training, and then we volunteered for the Gibraltar Force," he says.


Media captionQurban Ali: "Our raids were sudden and fierce and terrified the local people"
Pakistan is yet to officially confirm it ever commissioned such a force, but a former Pakistan army major, security expert and author, Ikram Sehgal, describes it in a newspaper article as "a mixture of volunteers from the army, mainly those belonging to Azad Kashmir [Free Kashmir, as Pakistanis call the part of Kashmir they control], and fresh recruits" from the Pakistani-administered side of Kashmir who were "hurriedly trained and launched into the valley [Indian-administered Kashmir] in late July/early August".

The plan, called Operation Gibraltar, was hatched by the officer in command of the region, Maj-Gen Akhtar Hussain Malik, according to Pakistani and other military historians.


Media captionA BBC correspondent reports on the 1965 conflict between India and Pakistan.
The idea was to use armed guerrilla bands to destroy India's communication system, and attack nodal points to tie up the Indian army.

Qurban Ali and his group took a long, circuitous route through Pakistani territory to infiltrate Indian-controlled Kashmir from the north.

They walked for several days, carrying dry food rations, arms and ammunition on their backs, "climbing and descending the hills, sometimes sliding down the snow-covered slopes".

They set up hideouts in jungles near Chowkibal, a town in Kupwara district on the Indian side.

They would spend their days and nights in the hollows of tree trunks, or under the cliffs or overhanging rocks.

During the month they spent there, they blew up a bridge and hit a number of supply points of the Indian army.

He says there were 180 men in his group, most of them civilian recruits. "There were six civilians for every 10 men in our group."

_85348608_gettyimages-3268034.jpg
Image copyrightHulton Archive
Image captionA Kashmiri village destroyed during the war
Unbeknown to Mr Ali and his fellow foot soldiers, groups with similar formations had infiltrated other areas of Kashmir as well.

Estimates of the Gibraltar Force numbers range from 7,000 to well over 20,000.

One of them was Mohammad Nazeer, now 64.

He was a school boy of about 14 when he was recruited. He was part of a team that hit more than a dozen Indian posts in the Poonch region.

"When they moved us from the training camp, we didn't know where we were going," he recalls.


Media captionMohammed Nazeer: "We caught the Indian soldiers sleeping"
"We thought it was part of our training."

They crossed over from the side of Forward Kahuta, and operated mostly around the town of Mandi in Poonch district.

He says most of the men in his group were "just kids, like me".

At this tender age, they saw much bloodshed - but their morale was high.

"When there was shooting and action, we would be in high spirits. But when it was quiet, we would get bored. We hardly ever thought about life and death back then."

Operation Gibraltar was based on the assumption that guerrilla attacks would trigger an uprising by the Muslim majority population of Indian-controlled Kashmir, most of whom had wanted to join Pakistan at the time of the partition of British India in 1947.

A rebel radio station purported to have been set up somewhere inside Kashmir, but actually operating out of the Pakistani city of Rawalpindi, aggressively reported on the exploits of the "mujahideen", hoping to instigate such an uprising.

But the civilians of Indian-administered Kashmir were not only not prepared for mass rebellion, they actually suffered at the hands of the intruders. Military historians cite numerous examples where civilians were killed or harmed, and others where they turned the infiltrators in.

India also reinforced its troops in Kashmir, choked infiltration points, and captured heights from where they threatened Muzaffarabad, the capital of Pakistani-administered Kashmir.

_85348606_gettyimages-159023929.jpg
Image copyrightAFP
Image captionIndia deployed 100,000 soldiers during the war
To relieve Indian pressure, Pakistani troops made a thrust into Jammu in the first week of September in an attempt to cut off the Indian supply line. This triggered Indian's attack on Lahore and Sialkot.

Towards the end of August, most infiltrators had been found, captured or killed. Those that survived were asked to pull back when India attacked Lahore.

"We were told that they couldn't continue to resupply us, and that we were on our own," says Qurban Ali.

"It was the most difficult time of our mission; the heights behind us that were under Pakistani control previously had been captured by Indians. We were vulnerable."

Kashmir timeline

1947 - British rule ends, sub-continent is partitioned into mainly Hindu India and Muslim-majority Pakistan

1947-48: First war between India and Pakistan over the region, ends with a ceasefire and Kashmir being partitioned

1965: Second Kashmir war ends with both sides returning to pre-war positions

1971: Third Indo-Pakistani war leads to the 1972 Simla Agreement, turning the Kashmir ceasefire line into the Line of Control

1999: Another war after militants cross from Pakistani-administered Kashmir into the Indian-administered Kargil district

2001: An attack on the Indian parliament is blamed on two militant groups considered close to Pakistan. The two nuclear-armed neighbours mobilise millions of troops in a confrontation that lasts 18 months.

2003: Two sides agree a ceasefire along the Line of Control

Mohammad Nazeer walked back to the Pakistani post dragging the dead body of a fellow fighter from his village, Mohammad Yusuf.

"The sentry at the post said there was no transport to ship the body to the village. Then some civilian contractors came along and helped me carry Yusuf to his family home."

Yusuf, a tall man of about 23, had been married for only a year when he joined the Gibraltar Force. A mortar shell hit him when he was providing cover fire to his team in a shootout during the withdrawal.

_85347436_gibraltarforce030-2.jpg

Image captionNisha Begum lost her husband to Operation Gibraltar
His wife, Nisha Begum, was seven months pregnant with her first - and only - child.

"When he was away, I used to pray for his safe return. But then one day they brought his dead body," she says, her eyes betraying no emotion.

But she says God has compensated her adequately.

"He gave me a son, and the strength to educate him, and a chance to see him get married and have children of his own."

The war, it seems, failed to break Nisha Begum, but many say it broke Ayub Khan, Pakistan's first military ruler who authorised Operation Gibraltar.

_85348604_gettyimages-497651397.jpg
Image copyrightHulton Archive
Image captionAyub Khan was overthrown three years after the war
He rapidly lost power after the war, and was overthrown in a popular uprising three years later. He died in 1974 "a sad and broken man", writes Dr Ahmad Faruqui, a US-based defence analyst.

And he left behind a legacy of military adventurism.

Air Marshal (retired) Nur Khan, who headed the Pakistan Air Force in 1965, said in an interview with Dawn newspaper that the army "misled the nation with a big lie" - that India rather than Pakistan provoked the war - and that Pakistan won a "great victory".

And since the "lie" was never rectified, the Pakistani "army came to believe its own fiction, (and) has continued t
 
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Zaidi, who teaches history at the Institute of Business Administration, Karachi, added, "With the celebration of the victory in the 1965 war round the corner, there can be no bigger a lie that Pakistan won the war. We lost terribly in the 1965 war," he said.

And there can be no bigger lie that Pakistan lost terribly in 1965 war, said by me. This Zaidi appears to be a shameless liar. This is for the first time I have heard that Pakistan lost the war terribly. Even the Indians have not made such absurd claims. I wish I was in Karachi, I would have personally slapped this so-called historian who is claimed to be taught at where? IBA, a management institute.

@Indus Falcon: Bhai, iss harami tareekh daan ka zara pata karwain. Yeh kiss zaleel khait ki mooli hey.

Though it appears to me as a fabricated propaganda story by shameless Bharati media as usual. Even the full name of this Zaidi (who) is not given and what the hell a historian doing at IBA?
Dispelling "the victory myth", historian and political economist Akbar S Zaidi said there cannot be a bigger lie as Pakistan had lost terribly, Dawn reported on Saturday. Zaidi said people are unaware of this fact because the history taught in Pakistan is from an ideological viewpoint. Zaidi said, "Students are not taught the history of the people of Pakistan. Rather it is focused on the making of Pakistan."
Full Name Given and Reported By Shameless Pakistani Media First
 
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Pakistan is 1/4th the size of India in terms of square mileage, 1/7th the size of India in terms of Population and 1/10th in terms of Economy. Even if Pakistan holds its own, that is an amazing accomplishment on its part.

Indians are like that 25 year old man who brags about how he actually came out ahead in his fight with a 4 year old.

Aren't you Indian guys even remotely embarrassed by such claims ?
 
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And when somebody speaks the truth, they are tagged as traitors, blasphemous and liars. No wonder we are this successful in this modern day and age :)
 
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Pakistan is 1/4th the size of India in terms of square mileage, 1/7th the size of India in terms of Population and 1/10th in terms of Economy. Even if Pakistan holds its own, that is an amazing accomplishment on its part.
Not if it was Pakistan that started the fucking war.
This shitty definition of a victory has been ingrained into most Pakistanis.


Indians are like that 25 year old man who brags about how he actually came out ahead in his fight with a 4 year old.
Come up with a better analogy, next time.
 
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Aren't you Indian guys even remotely embarrassed by such claims ?

they shouldn't because of their false ego .... which is at least hundred if not thousand times than of Pakistani nation ....
 
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This thread is going to be pradise for trollers.
of course it is.
that so called intellectual lacks the basic knowledge of the 65 war. he chose to ignore what happened at Chawinda and Lahore etc how we halted Indian invasion and how our jets pounded Pathankot etc. he is the breed of those people who want to follow a certain anti-Pakistan narrative because it gets "international" applause. he chose to quote another guy in his speech and that guy in his book would qoute another guy and that other guy might be quoting him.. I have found this circular quotes like mutual dik sucking in the "intellectual" world to appear authentic.
let me quote @Oscar who already very nicely commented on this when I originally predicted that this topic will be picked up to troll

The 65 war was a total disaster and one only has to read the books of those that actually fought it. Yet, as such it was worse for the Indians because their performance vis-a-vis us was terrible compared to what they really could have achieved.
A LOT, and I mean a LOT of these supposed "intellectuals" focus on big words and prose to give an illusion of legitimacy. Their need to bash has to do with being accepted by what they consider the rest of the world and their peers. The phenomenon is simply the same all over the world. Whether you consider these people or those that defend an idiot like Donald Trump here. It is the need to identify with the group you think is "cool". At the end it is no different than school children making some idiotic effort to try and fit in with the cool kids in the school yard.

Too little too late.
Propaganda has been ingrained so deep in the Pakistani psyche that no amount of truth will curb the ordinary or the educated Pakistani minds.
Its a question of their egos now so brace yourselves for a truck load of ad hominem attacks on the historian.
no no trust me it is having a profound effect

last time I visited chamb sector and vent inside an Indian police station which we are now using for our selves and I had recetly saw Najam Sethi's program who said we didnt conquer even an inch from Indians in any war... and I told myself maybe these all other people in Pakistani uniform are Indians and whenever I go visit Lahore maybe I am in occupied Lahore which the Indians conquered in 65.
 
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