"PAKISTAN HAS NEVER LOST" | Dr. Pravin Sawhney |

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

How do we define a war ? Or what is a war? Or why do countries go to war ?

Countries go to war when one feels that the other's action, policies or interests clash with it or it sees that to fulfill its own interest or policies it needs to occupy other territory or there are some historical or political differences which have been there or invented and are blown to hingh aspirations that to fulfill those aspirations it goes to war.

Countries start or initiate a war with defined objectives and plans to be executed to achieve those objectives at minimum loss to itself while inflicting maximum damage to other.

Now let us do an analysis of all the wars which happened between India and Pakistan.

1947 : Pakistan invaded the state of Jammu & Kashmir

Objective :to conquer Srinagar and force the Maharaja to Sign accession with Pakistan.

What Happened : maharaja signed Accession with India and India intervened and send army into state and pushed the Pakistani army and its supported Tribals back.

When ceasefire was declared Pakistan was pushed back and just held a strip of land in Jammu division and even small strip in Kashmir division along with Gilgit and Baltistan.

Inference : Pakistan could not execute its plans and failed to achieve its Objective .

Final result : Pakistan lost the war.

1965 : Pakistan initiated operation Grandslam and Gibraltor to instigate locals Kashmiri to revolt against India.

Objective : to initiate revolt against India and forcibly occupy and merge the state of J & K with Pakistan.

What happened : Pakistan air dropped many soldiers behind Indian lines with aim to instigate locals to revolt but locals reported their presence and they were arrested and killed by Indian army.

To support this infiltration Pakistan launched army action in J & K sector in August 1965 and were putting intense pressure on India in Chamb- Jodian sector, and were on verge to cut Jammu- Pathankot highway to isolate the state from India.

To ease pressure India crossed IB in Lahore and Sialkot sector on 5 th September.

Within few days India army was on outskirts of Lahore and Sialkot towns.

To protect these major towns Pakistan has to withdraw its forces from J & K sector.

Inference : Pakistan could not execute its plan and fulfill its objective to capture the state of J & K.

Final result : Pakistan does not acknowledge operation Grandslam and Gibralter but describes the war from time when India crossed IB in Lahore and Silkot sector and describes it self winner as it defended Lahore and Sialkot.

Final Result : strategically and Militarily Pakistan lost the 1965 war. As it failed to achieve its defined objectives.

1971 : Pakistan attacked airbases in north India on 3 rd December 1971.and started the war.

Objective : to activate western border and put pressure on India to not to interfere in East Pakistan.

What Happened : Indian eastern command went into East Pakistan from Meghalaya, Tripura and West Bengal and reached capital Decca without engaging or bypassing heavily defended cantonements on the way.

Indian navy destroyed Karachi and Chittagong ports and executed complete blocade of sea ports of Pakistan.

Indian airforce achieved air superiority on both east and west Pakistan Skies , PAF withdrew its remaining aircrafts to Iran.

Inference : Pakistan could not execute its plans to activate western borders to deter India from operation in East Pakistan.

Final Result : Bangladesh was created, 93000 Pakistani soldiers surrendered to India.
Pakistan lost the war comprehensively .

1999: Pakistan initiated operation in Kargil by occupying vacant positions on peak tops in winter.

Objective : to cut Srinagar-Leh highway to isolate Laddhak and Siachin .

What happened : India won back all the peaks and Pakistan has to withdraw on the face of heavy human losses.

Final result : Pakistan could not achieve its objective and lost the war.

I hope I have explained that Pakistan has lost all the 4 wars which happened between India and Pakistan since 1947.

The above are all conjectures and not facts. Where is the evidence that supports and proves the above assertions?

 

[Zarvan]

We lost 71 and denying that will be stupid to say the least. Indian claims of victory are BS when it comes to 48 and 65. As for Kargil it's an interesting story. From no angle Kargil is a Pakistani victory but it's a bigger disaster for India.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

We lost 71 and denying that will be stupid to say the least. Indian claims of victory are BS when it comes to 48 and 65. As for Kargil it's an interesting story. From no angle Kargil is a Pakistani victory but it's a bigger disaster for India.

Do we have Weapon comparable to India's CBU 105?

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

We lost 71 and denying that will be stupid to say the least. Indian claims of victory are BS when it comes to 48 and 65. As for Kargil it's an interesting story. From no angle Kargil is a Pakistani victory but it's a bigger disaster for India.

To be precise, bangladesh won 1971. india just reigned in on the bangladeshi military victory. That's all.

 

[American Pakistani]

Looks like garden variety army critic.

Look at his twitter account. He has blocked many accounts of Indian ex-servicemen and only people who talk favorably with him are pakis. He has interests of everyone in mind, except for India.

Sach sunnay ki himmat rakh...go k ye tunay seekha nahi hai kabhi.

 

[arjunk]

How do we define a war ? Or what is a war? Or why do countries go to war ?

Countries go to war when one feels that the other's action, policies or interests clash with it or it sees that to fulfill its own interest or policies it needs to occupy other territory or there are some historical or political differences which have been there or invented and are blown to hingh aspirations that to fulfill those aspirations it goes to war.

Countries start or initiate a war with defined objectives and plans to be executed to achieve those objectives at minimum loss to itself while inflicting maximum damage to other.

Now let us do an analysis of all the wars which happened between India and Pakistan.

1947 : Pakistan invaded the state of Jammu & Kashmir

Objective :to conquer Srinagar and force the Maharaja to Sign accession with Pakistan.

What Happened : maharaja signed Accession with India and India intervened and send army into state and pushed the Pakistani army and its supported Tribals back.

When ceasefire was declared Pakistan was pushed back and just held a strip of land in Jammu division and even small strip in Kashmir division along with Gilgit and Baltistan.

Inference : Pakistan could not execute its plans and failed to achieve its Objective .

Final result : Pakistan lost the war.

1965 : Pakistan initiated operation Grandslam and Gibraltor to instigate locals Kashmiri to revolt against India.

Objective : to initiate revolt against India and forcibly occupy and merge the state of J & K with Pakistan.

What happened : Pakistan air dropped many soldiers behind Indian lines with aim to instigate locals to revolt but locals reported their presence and they were arrested and killed by Indian army.

To support this infiltration Pakistan launched army action in J & K sector in August 1965 and were putting intense pressure on India in Chamb- Jodian sector, and were on verge to cut Jammu- Pathankot highway to isolate the state from India.

To ease pressure India crossed IB in Lahore and Sialkot sector on 5 th September.

Within few days India army was on outskirts of Lahore and Sialkot towns.

To protect these major towns Pakistan has to withdraw its forces from J & K sector.

Inference : Pakistan could not execute its plan and fulfill its objective to capture the state of J & K.

Final result : Pakistan does not acknowledge operation Grandslam and Gibralter but describes the war from time when India crossed IB in Lahore and Silkot sector and describes it self winner as it defended Lahore and Sialkot.

Final Result : strategically and Militarily Pakistan lost the 1965 war. As it failed to achieve its defined objectives.

1971 : Pakistan attacked airbases in north India on 3 rd December 1971.and started the war.

Objective : to activate western border and put pressure on India to not to interfere in East Pakistan.

What Happened : Indian eastern command went into East Pakistan from Meghalaya, Tripura and West Bengal and reached capital Decca without engaging or bypassing heavily defended cantonements on the way.

Indian navy destroyed Karachi and Chittagong ports and executed complete blocade of sea ports of Pakistan.

Indian airforce achieved air superiority on both east and west Pakistan Skies , PAF withdrew its remaining aircrafts to Iran.

Inference : Pakistan could not execute its plans to activate western borders to deter India from operation in East Pakistan.

Final Result : Bangladesh was created, 93000 Pakistani soldiers surrendered to India.
Pakistan lost the war comprehensively .

1999: Pakistan initiated operation in Kargil by occupying vacant positions on peak tops in winter.

Objective : to cut Srinagar-Leh highway to isolate Laddhak and Siachin .

What happened : India won back all the peaks and Pakistan has to withdraw on the face of heavy human losses.

Final result : Pakistan could not achieve its objective and lost the war.

I hope I have explained that Pakistan has lost all the 4 wars which happened between India and Pakistan since 1947.

If all India could do was capture a tiny sliver of the outskirts of Lahore district but won 1965 how did Pakistan capture 86,000 sqkm of Kashmir in 1947 and lose?

Here's a list of territorial changes of Pakistan going back to 1958:

1. PM Muhammad Ali Bogra started four year long negotiations to purchase Gwadar from Oman, eventually acquired on 7th September 1958.
2. General Ayub Khan surrendred Shaksgam Valley to China on 2nd March 1963.
3. General Yahya Khan lost East Pakistan on 16th December 1971.
4. General Zia-ul-Haq lost Siachin Glacier on 13th April 1984.
5. Brigadier Pervez Musharraf lost Quaid Post on 26th June 1987.
6. General Pervez Musharraf lost the Kargil War on 26th July 1999.
7. General Pervez Musharraf lost Waziristan on 5th September 2006.
8. PM Nawaz Sharif increased Pakistan's seabed territory by 50,000 sq km on 19th March 2015.
9. PM Nawaz Sharif's Operation Zarb-e-Azb liberates and annexes Waziristan on 3rd June 2016.
10. PM Imran Khan lost / allowed annexation of Kashmir on 5th August 2019.

If anyone has any information on the border settlement between Iran-Pakistan, I would appreciate it and also any information on Pakistani claim of the territory on Antartica would be a good read.

1. Gilgit-Baltistan, AJK liberated (approx 86,000 km sq)
   
2. PM Muhammad Ali Bogra started four year long negotiations to purchase Gwadar from Oman, eventually acquired on 7th September 1958.
3. General Ayub Khan surrendred Shaksgam Valley to China on 2nd March 1963. Pakistan actually gained territory here
   
4. General Yahya Khan lost East Pakistan and turtuk on 16th December 1971. (lost cause to begin with)
5. Chamb annexed in 1971
   
6. General Zia-ul-Haq lost Siachin Glacier on 13th April 1984. Partly controlled by Pakistan. General Zia ul haq also stopped Pakistan from being annexed by India, don't be so harsh on him.
   
7. Brigadier Pervez Musharraf lost Quaid Post on 26th June 1987.-> Pakistan controls multiple peaks and points which allow it to attack off NH-1 which was the major objective of the war, despite what Wikipedia tells you. And Musharraf says that his superiors were not aggressive in the offensives Pakistan made.
   
8. General Pervez Musharraf lost the Kargil War on 26th July 1999. --^
   
9. General Pervez Musharraf lost Waziristan on 5th September 2006. The only other option was to be bombed to the stone age.
   
10. PM Nawaz Sharif increased Pakistan's seabed territory by 50,000 sq km on 19th March 2015.
11. PM Nawaz Sharif's Operation Zarb-e-Azb liberates and annexes Waziristan on 3rd June 2016.
12. PM Imran Khan lost / allowed annexation of Kashmir on 5th August 2019. We are not the Indian army, we don't make or claim stupid moves like annexing Kashmir whenever we want. I'm sure this was the final straw for a full on war plan to be drawn up before demographics are changed and local support is lost as they are genocided out of existence.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

It is going to be a cactus for Indian throats, but as per Indian strategic and military expert Dr. Pravin Sawhney,

• India never won against Pakistan on the western front. If India had won, it would have changed the geography of LOC, the territory it claims - True.
• Militarily, Pakistan is not weak but pretends and benefits from this fabrication but India is militarily not strong yet pretends and suffers. - Feb 2019
• In Ladakh, China has got what it was after; a power to negotiate hard demands which India wasn't previously ready to concede. Dr. Pravin expects this will settle diplomatically with face-saving for India but strategic gains for China.

Those indian sanghi fanatics are going to try to kill this guy

 

[AfrazulMandal]

It is going to be a cactus for Indian throats, but as per Indian strategic and military expert Dr. Pravin Sawhney,

• India never won against Pakistan on the western front. If India had won, it would have changed the geography of LOC, the territory it claims - True.
• Militarily, Pakistan is not weak but pretends and benefits from this fabrication but India is militarily not strong yet pretends and suffers. - Feb 2019
• In Ladakh, China has got what it was after; a power to negotiate hard demands which India wasn't previously ready to concede. Dr. Pravin expects this will settle diplomatically with face-saving for India but strategic gains for China.

It takes courage to speak the Truth.

 

[fitpOsitive]

It is going to be a cactus for Indian throats, but as per Indian strategic and military expert Dr. Pravin Sawhney,

• India never won against Pakistan on the western front. If India had won, it would have changed the geography of LOC, the territory it claims - True.
• Militarily, Pakistan is not weak but pretends and benefits from this fabrication but India is militarily not strong yet pretends and suffers. - Feb 2019
• In Ladakh, China has got what it was after; a power to negotiate hard demands which India wasn't previously ready to concede. Dr. Pravin expects this will settle diplomatically with face-saving for India but strategic gains for China.

To be honest, I think Pakistani Kashmir and Indian Kashmir, plus parts of Jammu on both sides can be made an independent state. Pakistan can keep GB, and India can keep Ladakh.
And China can be taken on board on this.
After that, we should move towards Asian Union. Single currency, and one visa.
I mean, our people also deserve better life than this hell.

 

[The Accountant]

We lost 71 and denying that will be stupid to say the least. Indian claims of victory are BS when it comes to 48 and 65. As for Kargil it's an interesting story. From no angle Kargil is a Pakistani victory but it's a bigger disaster for India.

The person specifically mentioned the western front it means 1971 war is excluded from the claim.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Here's a list of territorial changes of Pakistan going back to 1958:

1. PM Muhammad Ali Bogra started four year long negotiations to purchase Gwadar from Oman, eventually acquired on 7th September 1958.
2. General Ayub Khan surrendred Shaksgam Valley to China on 2nd March 1963.
3. General Yahya Khan lost East Pakistan on 16th December 1971.
4. General Zia-ul-Haq lost Siachin Glacier on 13th April 1984.
5. Brigadier Pervez Musharraf lost Quaid Post on 26th June 1987.
6. General Pervez Musharraf lost the Kargil War on 26th July 1999.
7. General Pervez Musharraf lost Waziristan on 5th September 2006.
8. PM Nawaz Sharif increased Pakistan's seabed territory by 50,000 sq km on 19th March 2015.
9. PM Nawaz Sharif's Operation Zarb-e-Azb liberates and annexes Waziristan on 3rd June 2016.
10. PM Imran Khan lost / allowed annexation of Kashmir on 5th August 2019.

If anyone has any information on the border settlement between Iran-Pakistan, I would appreciate it and also any information on Pakistani claim of the territory on Antartica would be a good read.

This post is so stupid I don't even know where to begin. Ur sheer hatred for Pak army led u to twist facts and reality. Why such hate? Did the armed forces do something to u?

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

1. Gilgit-Baltistan, AJK liberated (approx 86,000 km sq)
   
2. PM Muhammad Ali Bogra started four year long negotiations to purchase Gwadar from Oman, eventually acquired on 7th September 1958.
3. General Ayub Khan surrendred Shaksgam Valley to China on 2nd March 1963. Pakistan actually gained territory here
   
4. General Yahya Khan lost East Pakistan and turtuk on 16th December 1971. (lost cause to begin with)
5. Chamb annexed in 1971
   
6. General Zia-ul-Haq lost Siachin Glacier on 13th April 1984. Partly controlled by Pakistan. General Zia ul haq also stopped Pakistan from being annexed by India, don't be so harsh on him.
   
7. Brigadier Pervez Musharraf lost Quaid Post on 26th June 1987.-> Pakistan controls multiple peaks and points which allow it to attack off NH-1 which was the major objective of the war, despite what Wikipedia tells you. And Musharraf says that his superiors were not aggressive in the offensives Pakistan made.
   
8. General Pervez Musharraf lost the Kargil War on 26th July 1999. --^
   
9. General Pervez Musharraf lost Waziristan on 5th September 2006. The only other option was to be bombed to the stone age.
   
10. PM Nawaz Sharif increased Pakistan's seabed territory by 50,000 sq km on 19th March 2015.
11. PM Nawaz Sharif's Operation Zarb-e-Azb liberates and annexes Waziristan on 3rd June 2016.
12. PM Imran Khan lost / allowed annexation of Kashmir on 5th August 2019. We are not the Indian army, we don't make or claim stupid moves like annexing Kashmir whenever we want. I'm sure this was the final straw for a full on war plan to be drawn up before demographics are changed and local support is lost as they are genocided out of existence.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Homo Sapiens]

Here's a list of territorial changes of Pakistan going back to 1958:

1. PM Muhammad Ali Bogra started four year long negotiations to purchase Gwadar from Oman, eventually acquired on 7th September 1958.
2. General Ayub Khan surrendred Shaksgam Valley to China on 2nd March 1963.
3. General Yahya Khan lost East Pakistan on 16th December 1971.
4. General Zia-ul-Haq lost Siachin Glacier on 13th April 1984.
5. Brigadier Pervez Musharraf lost Quaid Post on 26th June 1987.
6. General Pervez Musharraf lost the Kargil War on 26th July 1999.
7. General Pervez Musharraf lost Waziristan on 5th September 2006.
8. PM Nawaz Sharif increased Pakistan's seabed territory by 50,000 sq km on 19th March 2015.
9. PM Nawaz Sharif's Operation Zarb-e-Azb liberates and annexes Waziristan on 3rd June 2016.
10. PM Imran Khan lost / allowed annexation of Kashmir on 5th August 2019.

If anyone has any information on the border settlement between Iran-Pakistan, I would appreciate it and also any information on Pakistani claim of the territory on Antartica would be a good read.

It is fascinating that among the pre 1971 rulers of Pakistan, only Muhammad Ali Bogra(A Bengali from then East Pakistan) contributed to gain territory for West Pakistan. While West Pakistani origin rulers lost territory. Another Bengali leader Hussain Shahid Suhrawardy initiated friendly relationship with China when he was the Prime Minister. In 1957 he send a high level delegation to China to improve relationship with then isolated communist China. Now China is the most valuable strategic partner of Pakistan prove how visionary he was. Imagine Pakistan had not experienced military coup in 1958 and leaders like Muhammad Ali Bogra, HS Suhrawardy along with West Pakistani civil politicians continued to rule the country. A lot of bad blood and violence which happened later could have been avoided between East and West Pakistan.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Looks like garden variety army critic.

Look at his twitter account. He has blocked many accounts of Indian ex-servicemen and only people who talk favorably with him are pakis. He has interests of everyone in mind, except for India.

Yes do rationalise some more please.

 

[American Pakistani]

Here's a list of territorial changes of Pakistan going back to 1958:

1. PM Muhammad Ali Bogra started four year long negotiations to purchase Gwadar from Oman, eventually acquired on 7th September 1958.
2. General Ayub Khan surrendred Shaksgam Valley to China on 2nd March 1963.
3. General Yahya Khan lost East Pakistan on 16th December 1971.
4. General Zia-ul-Haq lost Siachin Glacier on 13th April 1984.
5. Brigadier Pervez Musharraf lost Quaid Post on 26th June 1987.
6. General Pervez Musharraf lost the Kargil War on 26th July 1999.
7. General Pervez Musharraf lost Waziristan on 5th September 2006.
8. PM Nawaz Sharif increased Pakistan's seabed territory by 50,000 sq km on 19th March 2015.
9. PM Nawaz Sharif's Operation Zarb-e-Azb liberates and annexes Waziristan on 3rd June 2016.
10. PM Imran Khan lost / allowed annexation of Kashmir on 5th August 2019.

If anyone has any information on the border settlement between Iran-Pakistan, I would appreciate it and also any information on Pakistani claim of the territory on Antartica would be a good read.

2) was shaksgam valley ever in Pakistan's control? Or you love riding on bhartis propaganda?

3) did Pakistani politicians let Bengalis rule the country? It was Pakistani politician and Bengal politicians who were fighting for chair.

4) Was Siachen ever in Pakistan control?

5) Pakistan gained 5 posts after loosing 1.

6) wrong, musharraf won it while your Nawaz traitor sold it.

8) how did he increased?