Pakistan has been offered the Chinese 4th generation J-11 (SU27)

[p2prada]

. Why would a military force allow its operational levels be open to scrutiny?

Do u know that when a democratic govt shows no interest in the armed forces. the generals bring up a situation which suddenly gets the attention of the media. this starts a chain reaction. first was the 9/11 attacks and the december attacks on the parliament in india. this started the operation parakram. Defence deals were struck fastest during that time. especially with relation to Gorshkov and the russian satellite system,GLONASS.

Now, the recent chinese incursions. the army is playing it smart. One time they say its a threat and then they just backtrack saying it was no big deal. Such things messes up the populaces minds
suddenly , defence minister antony announces indian defence budget will be doubled.

Its all in the game, with the media in the center.

do u remember cope india 2004, the US lost 90% of the engagements and they lobbied to the US congress about possible loss of air superiority and that the F-22 has to be inducted as soon as possible.

Its all in the game.

 

[blain2]

the media in india is powerful dude. Living under Mush has been painful for pak to know there is something called a media.

did u know that the CAG:Comptroller Auditor General of india started auditing all the defence related companies and international deals like maniacs to curb corruption. Even a missing rupee was reported in the media.

While I can commend the Indian media for their "independence", its outright stupid to disclose certain things. It does not even happen in the West (who claim themselves to be the champions of free media).

 

[p2prada]

Dude, keyser right now even u know that the F-7s and mirage-III are gonna be phased out in a few years. But, lets assume pak has already started phasing out the F-7s and Mirages even before the JF-17 is fully inducted.

Suddenly, reports come from china about possible failure of the navigation system in the JF due to problems related to chinese satellites. Now, these fighters have to be grounded for an indefinite period.

will that not make news in pak


That happened to india and people know about it. thats it. there was no major conspiracy. only bad governance.

 

[Keysersoze]

Dude, keyser right now even u know that the F-7s and mirage-III are gonna be phased out in a few years. But, lets assume pak has already started phasing out the F-7s and Mirages even before the JF-17 is fully inducted.

Suddenly, reports come from china about possible failure of the navigation system in the JF due to problems related to chinese satellites. Now, these fighters have to be grounded for an indefinite period.

will that not make news in pak


That happened to india and people know about it. thats it. there was no major conspiracy. only bad governance.

Well apart from the fact that the pilots would be sent and told to use the old fashioned methods of navigation I will tackle your assertion.

Even in the bastions of free speech there is this little entity called "National security" Now even with the freedom of information act there would have been some proviso for this.
Military personnel would not speak about such matters due to this. (In fact during my service we were given strict instructions not to.)

Therefore such information would have to be leaked from somewhere.

 

[fatman17]

^^^all is argument has nothing to do with the topic of the thread!

 

[nitesh]

Guys I feel like this thread is about "Pakistan has been offered the Chinese 4th generation J-11 (SU27)". Can we get back to topic please

 

[Muradk]

My fault I am sorry: Lets get back to the topic.

Pakistan wouldn't mind this fighter but we already have all five fingers dipped in, We have to sort out JF-17 first than J-10 and then we might go for this fighter.
PAF will wait until we have atleast 2 sqd of JF-17 and then move forward.

 

[p2prada]

Well apart from the fact that the pilots would be sent and told to use the old fashioned methods of navigation I will tackle your assertion.

It was just a scenario to ground the JFs. If u have problems with that then just assume serious engine problems.

Even in the bastions of free speech there is this little entity called "National security" Now even with the freedom of information act there would have been some proviso for this.
Military personnel would not speak about such matters due to this. (In fact during my service we were given strict instructions not to.)

Therefore such information would have to be leaked from somewhere.

No chance, it was for all to see. I will repeat. The MRCA was thought of in 1998 and MKI along with it. Induction of the LCA was not believed to be possible in the near future because of the test sanctions. We needed GE engines.
MKI was delayed due to problems in russia and alos India needed to integrate Israeli systems on it which took 6 years.

Leak or no leak.....in a democracy the military cannot get things done without making a hue and cry about it. For example the recent reports that IN will not go for DHRUV........such a thing is demoralizing to the nation. But, if they keep it quiet the govt will force the Dhruv on them. but by making it public..........link

:: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::

As for helicopters, apart from mid-life upgrades of Kamov-28 and Sea King anti-submarine helicopters for Rs 600 crore and Rs 850 crore respectively, Navy also plans to induct spanking new 10-tonne-class multi-role helicopters.

This means the Navy will get their medium lift helis.

U also read about the IAF chief's Email to the defence min and the prime minister, it was leaked intentionally so that the LCA and MRCA deal would get top priority. Earlier there were reports that if india starts the MCA they wont go for the PAKFA. But after the leak, both projects are to be undertaken.
$5Billion for the PAKFA and $2billion for the MCA after the design concept is cleared.


U are a brit or a pak citizen from brit. Which means u either worked in a downsizing military(UK) or a totalitarian regime. So, keeping quiet is the best option when the military is being downsized or the only option in a dictatorship.

 

[shehbazi2001]

Where do you get this crapy info.
1 got shot by his wing man .
1 got hit by wild bore
1 crashed compressor stalled.
4 crashed technical failure.
1 Crash bird hit plane got on fire had to eject.

From the compressor stall, it came to my mind that the powerplant of the Flanker or say J-11 is such an excellent piece of engineering that it does not stall or cut out or degrade during any crazy maneuver imaginable by the pilot.

All the impossible maneuvers of Flanker are possible due to his legendary powerplant. I imagine J-10 equipped with the same engine should be able to do all the crazy maneuvers without stalling of compressor.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

The PN has a plan to induct atlest 1 independent squadron of MR and is their any chance where J-11 could be upgraded to su-33 to meet PN role?
China also has plan to buy over 50 SU-33 and can PN benefit from this deal?

 

[nitesh]

The PN has a plan to induct atlest 1 independent squadron of MR and is their any chance where J-11 could be upgraded to su-33 to meet PN role?
China also has plan to buy over 50 SU-33 and can PN benefit from this deal?

J-11 upgrading to SU-33? From where you get such ideas. For god's sake these are two different platform. SU-33 is a maritime bomber which can operate from an aircraft carrier. Does PN have/going to have an aircraft carrier?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

J-11 upgrading to SU-33? From where you get such ideas. For god's sake these are two different platform. SU-33 is a maritime bomber which can operate from an aircraft carrier. Does PN have/going to have an aircraft carrier?

You did not get my point. what i meant was to integrate SU-33 systems in J-11 as both platforms share some similarities making J-11 even more capable for maritime roles.
The same kind of concept was proposed for pakistani AH-1 F cobra to integrate electronic warfare systems from AH-1Z Zullu cobra!

 

[nitesh]

You did not get my point. what i meant was to integrate SU-33 systems in J-11 as both platforms share some similarities making J-11 even more capable for maritime roles.
The same kind of concept was proposed for pakistani AH-1 F cobra to integrate electronic warfare systems from AH-1Z Zullu cobra!

Well sorry, I had got you wrongly. Yes subsystems can be integrated. But haven't got through any news on this regard.

 

[EagleEyes]

My fault I am sorry: Lets get back to the topic.

Pakistan wouldn't mind this fighter but we already have all five fingers dipped in, We have to sort out JF-17 first than J-10 and then we might go for this fighter.
PAF will wait until we have atleast 2 sqd of JF-17 and then move forward.

J-10
J-11
F-16
JF-17

Lethal combination i must say.

 

[araz]

The PN has a plan to induct atlest 1 independent squadron of MR and is their any chance where J-11 could be upgraded to su-33 to meet PN role?
China also has plan to buy over 50 SU-33 and can PN benefit from this deal?

23 March.
Whereas the requirement of PN is there, do you not think that a platform that is already in the inventory of PAF could fulfil that role? Remember, that the dstance between India and Pakistan by sea is well withi nthe reach of all the platforms that are about to be inducted. . we also know that one of the problems of operations around the coast is corrosion, which is a current nuisance for PAF Mirage 5s. Idont think that this particular problem would be sorted out by Thunder, although the best performance appears to be F16s from this point of view. Will we buy more F16s for the navy??
If J10 gets a lot of composite component, its ferry range would easily cover this area. Can we go for this instead. Presumably JF17 next tranche will have more composites content. Would this make this plane more suitable for that environment?
I still think at least in the short term, it is unlikely that PAF would extend itself by adding another platform. Post 2015---- Who knows.
Araz