Pakistan has been offered the Chinese 4th generation J-11 (SU27)

[Myth_buster_1]

Can anyone provide the details of the news.

read the first post.. detailed analysis ..

 

[Super Falcon]

i also saw this news in news paper is that true. because some time newspapers put news on newspapers without any real info

 

[TOPGUN]

Guys any news on the j-11's??

 

[xinhui]

what type of news are you looking for?

J-11 is in service with the 1st regt, 1st PLAAF air division, Shangyang MR and three more regiments, or are you referring to the J-11Mod which is equipped with Chinese weapons and engine.

 

[TOPGUN]

Yes and i mean wasn't there a rumor about China offering some to PAK any news on that??

 

[xinhui]

no, I think it is just a dream suggested by fan-boys. However, I really don't think J-11 will fit into Pakistan AF's current defensive requirements now with all those rumored additions.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

no, I think it is just a dream suggested by fan-boys. However, I really don't think J-11 will fit into Pakistan AF's current defensive requirements now with all those rumored additions.

at the moment its a dream but you know F-16s are in danger again (possible sanctions) due to political tense situation between the two countries plus obama and mccain are even eager to send troops in pakistan!
so in that case PAF has to find another platform and most likely new version of J-11s??

 

[IceCold]

no, I think it is just a dream suggested by fan-boys. However, I really don't think J-11 will fit into Pakistan AF's current defensive requirements now with all those rumored additions.

Why do you think it does not fit into PAFs equation? Now i know we are not going for the J-11b because it seems that the J-10 is currently dancing on the minds of our top brass, but realistically speaking J-11 can serve better then the J-10 giving us the long range deep strike capability within the enemy territory that we lack currently.

 

[xinhui]

but realistically speaking J-11 can serve better then the J-10 giving us the long range deep strike capability within the enemy territory that we lack currently.

without ECM/fighter cover and good offensive C4I, you are not going to go too far.....and how is much India military's combat capabilities you can degrade with limited sorties? Does it justify the investment?

Not many AF in the world can be geared toward both O and D at the same time and the way to counter India's Cold Start doctrine is to delay, isolate and destroy. For that Pakistan, it will need air cover more then deep air strike. Remember, when (and if) the Indian attacks, they will be mobile, fast and with multiple axis of advance, so Pakistan would really really have to have good real time Intel before it put together a good deep strike package and that type of package is extremely expensive.

 

[Contrarian]

without ECM/fighter cover and good offensive C4I, you are not going to go too far.....and how is much India military's combat capabilities you can degrade with limited sorties? Does it justify the investment?

Not many AF in the world can be geared toward both O and D at the same time and the way to counter India's Cold Start doctrine is to delay, isolate and destroy. For that Pakistan, it will need air cover more then deep air strike. Remember, when (and if) the Indian attacks, they will be mobile, fast and with multiple axis of advance, so Pakistan would really really have to have good real time Intel before it put together a good deep strike package and that type of package is extremely expensive.

Your analysis is spot on mate!

 

[IceCold]

without ECM/fighter cover and good offensive C4I, you are not going to go too far.....and how is much India military's combat capabilities you can degrade with limited sorties? Does it justify the investment?

Not many AF in the world can be geared toward both O and D at the same time and the way to counter India's Cold Start doctrine is to delay, isolate and destroy. For that Pakistan, it will need air cover more then deep air strike. Remember, when (and if) the Indian attacks, they will be mobile, fast and with multiple axis of advance, so Pakistan would really really have to have good real time Intel before it put together a good deep strike package and that type of package is extremely expensive.

The doctrine of Pakistani forces is offensive defensive. Which means that while defending a territory, PAF will go offensive. Take out any past history and you will see PAF offensive sorties. Also no airforce can just rely on mere defensive side. India's cold start doctrine is to start a limited scale conflict, inflict maxmize damage and go home back. My question is what makes them or you think it will remain limited? From Pakistans point of view, we have every reason to prolong the conflict maybe turn it into a full fledge war.
Also do not forget that with the induction of AWACS into PAF, ECM capabilites will be inducted and its not about degrading war waging capabilites, its about inflicting maximum damage to them, and it does not matter if that damage occurs with limited or unlimited sorties.

 

[bernard]

The doctrine of Pakistani forces is offensive defensive. Which means that while defending a territory, PAF will go offensive. Take out any past history and you will see PAF offensive sorties. Also no airforce can just rely on mere defensive side. India's cold start doctrine is to start a limited scale conflict, inflict maxmize damage and go home back. My question is what makes them or you think it will remain limited? From Pakistans point of view, we have every reason to prolong the conflict maybe turn it into a full fledge war.
Also do not forget that with the induction of AWACS into PAF, ECM capabilites will be inducted and its not about degrading war waging capabilites, its about inflicting maximum damage to them, and it does not matter if that damage occurs with limited or unlimited sorties.

which aircraft in paf will be used offensive/defensive,they should be prepared in advance for that role...

 

[Kharian_Beast]

How well does the J11 perform A2G? If it is a reliable A2G platform I personally think we wouldn't need more than a squadron, let them be our deep strike nuclear delivery platform. Imagine the fear this aircraft would put in the enemy. If it lacks A2G then I say let's pass on it. Aren't these usually flown off a carrier in China?

 

[Jliu]

without ECM/fighter cover and good offensive C4I, you are not going to go too far.....and how is much India military's combat capabilities you can degrade with limited sorties? Does it justify the investment?

Not many AF in the world can be geared toward both O and D at the same time and the way to counter India's Cold Start doctrine is to delay, isolate and destroy. For that Pakistan, it will need air cover more then deep air strike. Remember, when (and if) the Indian attacks, they will be mobile, fast and with multiple axis of advance, so Pakistan would really really have to have good real time Intel before it put together a good deep strike package and that type of package is extremely expensive.

Superb two para analysis mate.

Speaking strategically "Cold Start" is geared towards crippling Pakistan's warfighting and operational capabilities-not eliminating the country as a going concern.

The doctrine of Pakistani forces is offensive defensive. Which means that while defending a territory, PAF will go offensive. Take out any past history and you will see PAF offensive sorties. Also no airforce can just rely on mere defensive side. India's cold start doctrine is to start a limited scale conflict, inflict maxmize damage and go home back. My question is what makes them or you think it will remain limited? From Pakistans point of view, we have every reason to prolong the conflict maybe turn it into a full fledge war.

In theory, yes. But it all depends on the intensity, duration and tempo of the conflict. These variables cannot in normal peacetime conditions be calcuted. There is also an unspoken truth that Pakistan cannot "win" a full fledged conflict with India. At best both countries would lie in a smouldering nuclear ruin.

Also do not forget that with the induction of AWACS into PAF, ECM capabilites will be inducted and its not about degrading war waging capabilites, its about inflicting maximum damage to them, and it does not matter if that damage occurs with limited or unlimited sorties.

So what does 5-6 Erieye platforms or Y-8 mean to the warfighter? Or to the policymaker given warning of Indian mobilisation +72hrs and FCR +48hrs?

Unless you are prepared to intitiate pre-emptive strike or interdiction without a doubt that hostile intent is intended you will be left at an immense strategic disadvantage a la' Poland, 1939 as the weaker party facing a stronger adversary.

For the record the Erieye is purely an AEW(C) platform offering limited C2BM as opposed to a pure AWACs platform such as the E3. Of the Y-8 I am unsure as yet.

 

[ejaz007]

J-11Abasically is an air superiority fighter while J-11B is a multi role aircraft with air to ground capability. Its a fine fighter indeed however It is not on the wish list of PAF at the moment. Presently PAF is planning to induct following fighters:

1. JF-17
2. F-16 C/D
3. J-10
4. FC-20