Pakistan, Germany in Surplus Helo Talks

[Rajput_Pakistani]

Are these Helis under consideration are under use of German Army or in stores? What's the air-frame life left?
If PA is looking into it, it must be not out-dated frames and have some juice left.
Another speculation is that can they be for FC? For Af-Pak border monitoring?

 

[Rocky rock]

IF we will get these heloz un-Armed we will upgrade them n fit bakhtar Shikan system on them.....

]

 

[fatman17]

Eurocopter BO 105 Light Utility / Observation / Antitank Helicopter (1970)

Authored By Staff Writer


The Bo 105 light utility helicopter has seen military and civilian use the world.


The Bo 105 is a light utility helicopter system recognized around the globe for its versatility, performance and safety record. The system has served (and continues to do so) in a military and civilian capacity in nations throughout the world, providing the ability to operate in many guises. The militarized version is capable of mounting the HOT and HOT-2 anti-tank missile system, making for one lethal and adept package.

The Bo 105 flew in prototype form in 1967, achieving full operational status by 1970. The cabin allows for a crew of two, plus three passengers and two medical litters in the medevac role. A series of two Allison-brand engines have powered most of the series, driving a four-blade main rotor system along with a two blade tail rotor. Visibility out of the cockpit is very good and several variants lengthen the cabin size, offering up more windows for improved visibility and additional storage/passenger seating space.

The German Army was the principle operator of the BO 105 series, taking on several hundreds into inventory. Anti-tank variants are fitted to fire up to six Euromissile brand HOT anti-tank missiles with later variants upgrading to the HOT 2 system with three missile launching tubes per side. The Swedish BO 105 CBS variant was similarly armed with the ESCO HeliTow anti-tank missile system. The Bo 105 was later replaced the in Eurocopter light helicopter line by the newer Eurocopter EC 145 system, with Bo 105 production ending as recently as 2001.

Text ©2003-2013 Military Factory - Military Weapons: Cataloging aircraft, tanks, vehicles, artillery, ships and guns through history. •

Specifications for the Eurocopter BO 105

Light Utility / Observation / Antitank Helicopter
Country of Origin: Germany
Manufacturer: MBB / Eurocopter - Germany
Initial Year of Service: 1970
Production: 1,406
Focus Model: Eurocopter BO 105 CB
Crew: 2 + 3
Length: 38.91ft (11.86m)
Width: 0.00ft (0.00m)
Height: 9.84ft (3.00m)
Weight (Empty): 2,822lbs (1,280kg)
Weight (MTOW): 5,291lbs (2,400kg)
Power-plant: 2 x Allison 250-C20B turbo-shaft engines driving a four-blade main rotor and a two blade tail rotor.
Maximum Speed: 152mph (245kmh; 132kts)
Maximum Range: 407miles (655km)
Service Ceiling: 16,998ft (5,181m; 3.2miles)
Rate-of-Climb: 1,773 feet per minute (540m/min)
Hard-points: 2 (AT variant)
Armament Suite:
Anti-Tank Variant:
6 x Euro-missile HOT / HOT 2 OR ESCO Heli-Tow anti-tank missiles.
Variants:
BO 105A - Initial Production Model; fitted with 2 x Allison 250-C18 turbine engines.
BO 105C - Fitted with 2 x Allison 250-C20 engines.
BO 105CB - Fitted with 2 x Allison 250-C20B
BO 105CBS - Lengthened fuselage; medical service variant.
BO 105 LS - Built under Eurocopter Canada label; fitted with Rolls-Royce (Allison) 250-C28C engines.
BO 105 LS A1 - Lengthened fuselage; 2 x Allison 250-C28C turbine engines.
BO 105 LS A3 - Increase to maximum take-off weight.
BO 105LS A3 - "Super Lifter" Heavy Lift Variant; maximum take-off weight increased.
BO 105P - Anti-tank Variant for military usage; 2 x HOT AT AGM systems.
PAH-1 - Army Designation for BO 105P model
PAH-1A1 - Army Designation for BO 105P model
BO 105M - Light Transport and Observation Platform.
VBH - Army Designation for BO 105M model
NBO-105 - Lengthened fuselage; built under license by IPTN.
NBO-105 CB - Original Designation for NBO-105 model series.
NBO-105 CBS - Original Designation for NBO-105 stretched model.
BO 105 - "Executive" model; produced under Carson Helicopters label for attempted US commercial application; stretched fuselage.
BO 105E-4 - Converted Bo 105P models for Albanian export.

Operators: Germany, Greece, Indonesia, South Africa, Argentina, Canada, Netherlands, Spain, Albania, Bahrain, Brunei, Chile, Colombia, Indonesia, Iraq, Jordan, Kenya, Lesotho, Mexico, Niger, Nigeria, Papau New Guinea, Peru, Philippines, Sierra Leone, South Korea, Sweden, Trinidad and Tobago, United Arab Emirates and Uruguay.


fairly popular model...

 

[Nishan_101]

Better for the Army, Navy and Airforce along with Paramilitary to choose helicopters from EU countries and then PAC will going to produce three types of it:
EH-101
AW-139
AW-119
PRODUCTS FOR THE MILITARY/GOVERNMENT MARKET | AgustaWestland
then produce it according to there needs and numbers...

 

[fatman17]

Are these Helis under consideration are under use of German Army or in stores? What's the air-frame life left?
If PA is looking into it, it must be not out-dated frames and have some juice left.
Another speculation is that can they be for FC? For Af-Pak border monitoring?[/QUOTE]

best observation i've heard all day - very possible sir...

can this thread be moved to the army aviation section

 

[Saquib]

Why can't they just built BO 105 under licence this will solve the spares problem it is an old design and should be easy buy the rights it can be updated with latest of the shelve technology!

PAK armed services should be considering self reliance buying old designs and updating them as required this will safe on R&D.

 

[jaibi]

Why not buy from China ??? They can sell armed choppers without any hesitation.

The armed forces wish to diversify.

 

[fatman17]

frankly i doubt if this deal will materialize as a similar earlier deal for 550 M-113 APC deemed excess by Germany was stopped at the last minute by the German parliament. this deal could face a similar fate......we can only wait and see.

 

[Sergi]

The armed forces wish to diversify.

Please read the posts from @fatman17 @nuclearpak
If I write something some of your countrymen think I am trolling and start ruining the thread so I will pass.
And any ways I was just seeking info and the above said posters explain it well.

 

[Reddawn]

Like most members I too find this potential deal to be perplexing. As members have already mentioned it could be for military or non military use. Just a couple of points to add to the debate:

1) Weaponising the Bo105 very much depends upon what sort of restriction clauses will be included in the contract. If the Germans forbid weaponising the Bo105 as per the terms of the contract the GoP is under a legal obligation to ensure that the Bo105 is not weaponised. Baktar Shikan's could potentially be mounted on the side pylons but that is if the PA deems the investment as worth it. MG3's if equipped will not be door mounted. Most likely to be mounted on side pylons to save space if it is to be utilised in a CSAR role. Lets remember these are 40+ year old airframes so the military are unlikely to throw money at upgrading the Bo105s.

2) I'm inclined to believe that the potential acquisition of the Bo105 are to support the Emergency Services and LEAs to include the FC (FC's sole Ecureil was a write off and MoI UH1's are hard pressed like militayr helos. Lack of aviation assets is crippling for the EM and LEAs and there is only so much Edhi and Princely Jets can do.

On a side note the retards heading up the LEAs and EMS still have yet to realise the value tactical UAVs can provide at a fraction of the cost of helos (cannot replace helos but supplement them).

3) Brian Cloughley makes a good point in terms of life cycle support and where it is going to come from. Indonesia operates just over 120 Bo105s manufactured by IPTN since the 70s. I wouldnt be surprised if the GoP will be looking to IPTN to provide spares. We already have a relationship with IPTN re CN235s and as IPTN produce the Pumas, 412s and Ecureuil under license they can be an alternative supplier of need be.

 

[jaibi]

Please read the posts from @fatman17 @nuclearpak
If I write something some of your countrymen think I am trolling and start ruining the thread so I will pass.
And any ways I was just seeking info and the above said posters explain it well.

I stated this after reading the works of S. Nawaz and P. I. Cheema; in their works they have presented the armed forces doctrine is not to wholly rely on a single party for the weaponry Pakistan possesses, and the reliance on China has largely been due to the fact that they seemed the ones most willing to provide Pakistan with the weaponry that she was in need of and other countries did not. However, the basic philosophy of the armed forces remains to reach a diversified armaments. I can be wrong of course would love to see evidence to the contrary.

Regards.

 

[fatman17]

Pakistan Planning to Buy 40 ex-German Army Bo-105s


Posted on: May 4th, 2013


Pakistan is currently seeking the purchase of 40 surplus Germany Army Bo.105s.

PAKISTAN IS seeking to purchase 40 surplus German Heeresflieger (Army Aviation) Bölkow Bo.105P1 helicopters and has made a formal request to the German Government for approval of the deal. German news weekly Der Spiegel revealed plans for the acquisition in its April 28 issue, saying that it was the subject of a letter on April 24 to the parliamentary defence committee from Thomas Kossendey, German Parliamentary State Secretary to the Federal Ministry of Defence.

The letter noted that strict German export laws which ban sale of weapons to crisis regions will not apply to the deal because the helicopters will be fully demilitarised and transferred unarmed. The mountings and pylons which had previously been used to carry six MBDA HOT anti-tank guided missiles for the type’s anti-armour role will be removed.

Pakistan is seeking these helicopters in search and rescue configuration, with provision to carry a stretcher and a medical officer.

It is unclear as yet, however, which service will operate them, assuming the purchase goes ahead. The deal has apparently been under discussion for some time and during a previous visit to Pakistan, in March 2012, German Defence Minister Thomas de Maizière said that he was likely to look favourably on Pakistan’s request for the helicopters.

AFD-Dave Allport

 

[alimobin memon]

Thats good we will have dedicated Search and Rescue wing... Because using mi 17 and bell should be for war and offense and deployment only

 

[HAIDER]

Last year Sweden also gave free , i think 10 helos for rescue mission in flood zones.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Is it practical tO go for such old machines? Pakistan could be walking into a spares and support nightmare- I'm assuming the production line for this helo is long since dead so where will Pakistan get spares from? Also these machines must be coming to the end of their usable lives with the Germans so in a few years time what will the PA do with the machines- fly them past their recommended life span or spend untold millions upgrading relics to keep them alive for just a few more years.




Seems very short-sighted and seems to be it will be short term gains for long term pain.
It