Pakistan finally given up on Saudi Arabia?

[313ghazi]

We have a pragmatic foreign policy generally. We're not dumping anyone.

 

[Adonis]

We have a pragmatic foreign policy generally. We're not dumping anyone.

Pragmatic foreign policy? are you serious ? Do we even have a foreign policy in the first place, leave aside it being Pragmatic....

Yes we not not dumping anyone, though everyone is dumping us...My hand has more fingers than the countries who stand by our side today.

 

[Deltadart]

Saudi Arabia is a spineless country. We need to look towards Turkey and Iran for any sort of alliance and put aside any sectarian differences.

For many naive people in pakistan, it is preferable to collaborate with the enemies against their own kind, just because they are prejudiced against fellow muslims.

 

[313ghazi]

Pragmatic foreign policy? are you serious ? Do we even have a foreign policy in the first place, leave aside it being Pragmatic....

Yes we not not dumping anyone, though everyone is dumping us...My hand has more fingers than the countries who stand by our side today.

What do you expect other countries to do for you?

Give you money for free?
Fight your wars for you?
Run your government?

 

[Adonis]

What do you expect other countries to do for you?

Give you money for free?
Fight your wars for you?
Run your government?

I am not expecting other countries to do anything...I am just replying to your post a you said we have pragmatic foreign policy....the result of which is evident that but for two, no country stands besides you.

 

[313ghazi]

I am not expecting other countries to do anything...I am just replying to your post a you said we have pragmatic foreign policy....the result of which is evident that but for two, no country stands besides you.

What do you mean when you say stand by you? Name a single country that puts the national interest of others ahead of its own?

We do have a pragmatic foreign policy. We have reasonable relations with most countries. Take the Saudis for example. We got loans from them but refused to fight in Yemen. We wanted to setup gas pipelines with Iran whilst supporting the Taliban. We abandoned the Taliban and supported the US when it suited us and then reversed our position when it suited us. We fought against the soviet Union and today rely on Russia for JF17 engines. We champion Muslim causes vocally but are silent about the Uighyrs.

 

[ziaulislam]

I have been saying this for sometime now, the relationship between Pakistan and GCC has come to the point of diminishing returns.


Now even prominent Pakistani anchors are saying this.


Orya Jan, who is a very pro Taliban and far right "sunni" media person, said the same thing. I have time stamped the video:

Finally Pakistani establishment have realised that the regardless of how much we can cajole these Sheikhs, they are neck depp, fully embedded into the western block with America and will never be part of new "Asian revival" led by China. China on its part, clearly favour Iran now for its energy needs and signed the treaty with Iran. For Pakistan, one thing is clear, it can never be part of the "board of governors" in the western lead alliance, infact, it is way down the pecking order , down the dumps in hierarchy where the crumbs come down from west, to the GCC and the onwards to Pakistan. On the Chinese side however, Pakistan is already in "board of governors", by default.

Its really no brainer now for Pakistan to grab this once a century opportunity and full integrate into China-Russia-Iran-Turkey emerging alliance, infact Pakistan is the pivot.

Iranian FM is in Islamabad for this reason. And while he was here, King Salman of Saudi Arabia urged the "world" to take decisive stance against Iran. Very convenient timing!

Saudi king urges world to take ‘decisive stance’ against Iran

Tensions in the region have risen since Donald Trump pulled the US out of the international Iran nuclear deal in 2018.

www.aljazeera.com

12 Nov 2020

Saudi king urges world to take ‘decisive stance’ against Iran



Apparently China is pushing Iran for it to clear its territory of any Indian presence which can be used against Pakistan and CPEC.



No one can say that this has not been coming, GCC has crossed many red lines when it comes to Pakistan core national interest, biggest of it all Kashmir, and their support to India.

But at the end of the say, on the global scale, it is the fight between two giants, China and America, and this time, Pakistan and GCC are standing on the opposite camps.

WHY WHY WHY do we have to choose camps
They need cheap labour we provide it..

Its not a favour its business ..

They cant find this good labor anywhere elese sane south asia and may be far east asia thoigh that avenue is almost gone(as they pay far less for anyone from south east asia to come)

Africans are not reliable in work..they may try that avenue though
Please stop it and play smart like india(untill recently though under idiot modi)

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Pakistan - Saudi Relations , Warm and friendly
Pakistan - Turkish Relations , Traditionally Strong multiple Generations
Pakistan - Iran Relations, Warm, our closest neighbor , most stable neighbor beside China up North


As far as Pakistan is concerned we wish that all the countries can develop a charter of mutual respect and focus on trade and commerce


Saudia has been a second home for many Pakistani

Today may be Saudi-Turkish relations are semi warm
Today may be Saudi-Irani relations are unclear

But all that can be solved over a table

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Orya Jan, who is a very pro Taliban and far right "sunni" media person, said the same thing.

This is a disingenuous way of characterizing him. He is a patriot first and foremost, who was a government official in Quetta, and he was even posted in Iran. He has written scripts for dramas, is a known poet, and is kbowledgeable in Pakistani culture, regions, and has explored many remote areas of the country.

If you listen to his talks on economics, you can tell he is very knowledgeable in those matters.

Pakistani leaders, religious scholars, technocrats regularly visit his show. Not too long ago, an official of Abdullah Abdullah's team was on his show to give Kabul's perspective on the peace process.

He is one of the people who is foremost in condemning media lies, and he even criticizes PTI many times when he disagrees with them, even though they hold him up in high esteem.

Apparently China is pushing Iran for it to clear its territory of any Indian presence which can be used against Pakistan and CPEC.

We should know that Iran backed off from their hostile path against Pakistan, only because of Chinese investment (and the influence along with it.)

Considering the extremely hostile rhetoric from Iran since the 90s against Pakistan, Afghanistan, Azerbaycan, and now against Turkey, since the Syrian conflict, we should be very cautious of the Iranians.

Or maybe it’s MBS. Saudi policy has changed a lot under him. Perhaps the rest of the Saudis will see how the US will act under Biden because of MBS and it will bring them back to their old ways.

In the mean time, Pakistan should continue on with building its ties to China and Turkey (and the Turkic world). Iran may come around for the sake of the opportunity China is providing them, and then a trade and energy corridor through Iran will decrease Pakistan’s need for the Saudis, but not eliminate. We shouldn’t burn any bridges with the Saudis just in case then come to their senses.

Very sensible post.

For now, we should explore ways to go around Iran, like through Turkmenistan to Turkey.

We are open to rapprochement with Iran, but it will require acceptance of the Taliban government in Afghanistan (and no further interference) and backing away from Indian alliance against Pakistan, of which Chabahar is the hotbed of terror.

Pakistan should be bold enough to put demands on Iran, especially in relation to Zainabiyoun, Chabahar and Indian BLA support, funding BLF, support for NDS (which is behind TTP and Daesh,) assassination of Sunni scholars in Pakistan, and threatening our borders.

A little tough stance should be enough to silence them, if only Pakistan showed some of the rhetoric which Solemani did just before Balakot happened.

No matter what, they will have to come home one day. Might as well do it now rather than later.

Rip off the bandage, otherwise it will haunt us for years to come.

Decreasing the ability of anyone to blackmail us is common sense.

Israeli in the back of Saudi is twisting Pakistan arms to build pressure to accept Israel. a recent Bomb blast on WW1 ceremony in Jeddah, Saudi rulers are not learning any lesson but on Isreal back declared Afghan-Muslims with their muftis Ban this org. Lets see

I want you to explain the Afghan Muslim thing more, bro.

The Saudis also fear pushing Pakistan totally towards Iran, if we get involved in the Yemen war against the Saudis, ISI will make short work of there coalition in Yemen in months, Iran is just a kid in this domain, we basically invented succesful proxy wars

If we are going to go further in anyone's camp, it won't be either KSA nor Iran.

We are going further into the Turkish and Azeri camp. Our alliance is getting stronger day by day.

Today in Baku, people are waving Pakistani flags and chanting Pakistan.

Better to reign in Hell than to serve in the Heaven....

Pak was serving in the Hell....

A good welcome break for now that the KSA/GCC are now destined to be doomed....

They are bow paying for their sins of betraying the Ottomans. It has been 200 years. Now the knot of the rope has been reached.

Azab of Allah swt will ascend from beneath the Earth and descend from the Heavens.

They will have no shadow to protect them from the scorching sun.

Betraying Palestine was the last act of theirs.

If Pakistan did not matter, we would not be seeing this kind of pressure nor all the sudden articles coming out of Jewish press on Pakistan accepting Israel. Regardless of our current economic situation, which we can change, the fact is it is the only nuclear Islamic country and every Muslim regardless of affiliation does look up to Pakistan to some extent. Simple fact if the matter is, if tomorrow SA recognizes Israel but Pakistan does not, most of the Islamic world will probably not either. Remember most of the Muslim population does not reside in the ME nor are paranoid about Iran.
This in turn also shows Pakistans stature and importance, even if it might not be apparent. Pakistan should not succumb to pressure, not for something that everyone in the world recognizes as an illegitimate annexation of Palestinian territories. Besides there is no rush. Let's see what fruitful changes to the status-quo come out of the backstabbing by UAE and Bahrain. (Will be waiting for a long time).

Great post. Thanks.

What do you expect other countries to do for you?

Give you money for free?
Fight your wars for you?
Run your government?

Leave the Hindu Indian to his thoughts. Let us discuss the matter at hand.

What do you mean when you say stand by you? Name a single country that puts the national interest of others ahead of its own?

We do have a pragmatic foreign policy. We have reasonable relations with most countries. Take the Saudis for example. We got loans from them but refused to fight in Yemen. We wanted to setup gas pipelines with Iran whilst supporting the Taliban. We abandoned the Taliban and supported the US when it suited us and then reversed our position when it suited us. We fought against the soviet Union and today rely on Russia for JF17 engines. We champion Muslim causes vocally but are silent about the Uighyrs.

You make us seem like we are someone whom we are not.

Pakistan has a very obvious goal, which is to unite the Muslims together and bring a new revival of the Islamic world. So far we have been occupied by our internal matters for 73 years, but finally we have unified our nation.

Pakistan is about to break out into the world as a major force. It is happening very soon.

You all will see a very different Pakistan emerge in 2021, just as Imran Khan had said.

 

[mqur1963]

Arabs are done only wait for imam al mehdi melhama is coming

 

[H!TchHiker]

Where you can find replacement for such large workforce specially under rampant global pandemic? India, the epicentre of covid? Its not easy as you are making it out to be, it will hit Saudi hard as well, like shooting at their own foot. They may eventually replace Pakistanis but it will be a long process, for which Pakistan needs to prepare as well.

Either change and take hard decisions or keep on getting blackmailed by these camel jokies, who btw are extension of yanks.

We can change but given the circumstances until we can able to generate 20 billion dollar roughly revenue without the help we can't do anything..since it's easy to say for people who will not be impacted by the economic fall out of the decisions..and that includes all who are not living in ground in Pakistan ...so these are all emotions and feel good things unless it affects someone own stomach ..harsh but sad reality ...

We are going to HAVE to find an alternative one day. Might as well start now.

Yes we should start ..no doubt we should not depend on someone but unless and until we are we need to act rationale

 

[313ghazi]

This is a disingenuous way of characterizing him. He is a patriot first and foremost, who was a government official in Quetta, and he was even posted in Iran. He has written scripts for dramas, is a known poet, and is kbowledgeable in Pakistani culture, regions, and has explored many remote areas of the country.

If you listen to his talks on economics, you can tell he is very knowledgeable in those matters.

Pakistani leaders, religious scholars, technocrats regularly visit his show. Not too long ago, an official of Abdullah Abdullah's team was on his show to give Kabul's perspective on the peace process.

He is one of the people who is foremost in condemning media lies, and he even criticizes PTI many times when he disagrees with them, even though they hold him up in high esteem.



We should know that Iran backed off from their hostile path against Pakistan, only because of Chinese investment (and the influence along with it.)

Considering the extremely hostile rhetoric from Iran since the 90s against Pakistan, Afghanistan, Azerbaycan, and now against Turkey, since the Syrian conflict, we should be very cautious of the Iranians.



Very sensible post.

For now, we should explore ways to go around Iran, like through Turkmenistan to Turkey.

We are open to rapprochement with Iran, but it will require acceptance of the Taliban government in Afghanistan (and no further interference) and backing away from Indian alliance against Pakistan, of which Chabahar is the hotbed of terror.

Pakistan should be bold enough to put demands on Iran, especially in relation to Zainabiyoun, Chabahar and Indian BLA support, funding BLF, support for NDS (which is behind TTP and Daesh,) assassination of Sunni scholars in Pakistan, and threatening our borders.

A little tough stance should be enough to silence them, if only Pakistan showed some of the rhetoric which Solemani did just before Balakot happened.


Rip off the bandage, otherwise it will haunt us for years to come.

Decreasing the ability of anyone to blackmail us is common sense.



I want you to explain the Afghan Muslim thing more, bro.


If we are going to go further in anyone's camp, it won't be either KSA nor Iran.

We are going further into the Turkish and Azeri camp. Our alliance is getting stronger day by day.

Today in Baku, people are waving Pakistani flags and chanting Pakistan.





They are bow paying for their sins of betraying the Ottomans. It has been 200 years. Now the knot of the rope has been reached.

Azab of Allah swt will ascend from beneath the Earth and descend from the Heavens.

They will have no shadow to protect them from the scorching sun.

Betraying Palestine was the last act of theirs.



Great post. Thanks.



Leave the Hindu Indian to his thoughts. Let us discuss the matter at hand.



You make us seem like we are someone whom we are not.

Pakistan has a very obvious goal, which is to unite the Muslims together and bring a new revival of the Islamic world. So far we have been occupied by our internal matters for 73 years, but finally we amhave unified our nation.

Pakistan is about to break out into the world as a major problem. It is happening very soon.

You all will see a very different Pakistan emerge in 2021, just as Imran Khan had said.

My point is that we live in a world of nation states. Each nation state looks out for thier best interest. The political of the world is based of very capitalist, secular politics. For all the talk Pakistan does diplomacy relatively well. We try to build bridges with everyone because you never know who might benefit you when. This is the basis of diplomacy.

Leadership comes and goes, nations stay.

 

[Xone]

Give up? Pakistan is holding Saudia In its Hands? The relationship needs reciprocity, We are always looking for someone helping us. We have nothing in return. In such a situation we are given up by the second. So first pay attention to ourselves to do the best, then ask for anyone else. We have to work hard and smart to get self-reliance in economy and defense. The beggars are welcomed not all the time especially when they go against the other.
If we really want honour and dignity then we have to have a self-sufficient economy. We have been making mistakes, and no one is ready to admit that, Our present govt has destroyed every business to make new Pakistan.
When will we learn to amend ourselves?

 

[FuturePAF]

Very sensible post.

For now, we should explore ways to go around Iran, like through Turkmenistan to Turkey.

We are open to rapprochement with Iran, but it will require acceptance of the Taliban government in Afghanistan (and no further interference) and backing away from Indian alliance against Pakistan, of which Chabahar is the hotbed of terror.

Pakistan should be bold enough to put demands on Iran, especially in relation to Zainabiyoun, Chabahar and Indian BLA support, funding BLF, support for NDS (which is behind TTP and Daesh,) assassination of Sunni scholars in Pakistan, and threatening our borders.

A little tough stance should be enough to silence them, if only Pakistan showed some of the rhetoric which Solemani did just before Balakot happened.


If we are going to go further in anyone's camp, it won't be either KSA nor Iran.

We are going further into the Turkish and Azeri camp. Our alliance is getting stronger day by day.

Today in Baku, people are waving Pakistani flags and chanting Pakistan.

Thanks. Precisely, while we may be going through a rough patch with the Saudis, I hope it will pass soon enough. The Iranians may also come around for the sake of their own future, but they don’t have a track record of long term productive relations with Pakistan, so we should be very careful and move slowly with them, as we build up trust through smaller projects at first. I don’t think we should build a pipeline from Iran so as not to annoy the Saudis and leave room for mending relations with the GCC countries until them. (Maybe a subsea pipeline through Iranian water from Qatar for Natural gas and/or oil to a refinery near Gwadar would be a better project, but that too could annoy the Saudis, although if the Chinese fund it and run it, ... it would certainly assure the world (especially China) no matter what happens in the strait of Hormuz, oil and gas supply will make it out of the region. With a continuation of a pipeline from the coast to China, it would help Pakistan earn transit trade money from China)

We can’t afford to wait on these two countries and should be building our non-Iranian, non-Russian path through Afghanistan and the Turkic world; Quetta-Afghanistan-Turkmenistan-Azerbaijan (through the new land corridor through Armenia or Georgia) and then to Turkey for onwards shipping to Europe.

The transit trade (and the royalties that can be paid) will bond the countries along the route to us, opening up economic activities such as an oil and gas pipeline from Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan to Pakistan. This route could also make mining profitable in Afghanistan once the country stabilized; land route to Europe or China, and down to Gwadar for export to the world by ship. If Afghanistan becomes stable, processing ore from mines could be done in Afghanistan, otherwise a lot of the value added processing of minerals from Afghan mines could be done in KPK or Baluchistan, just over the border, in a safer and more stable environment. This should help generate revenue that can help rebuild Afghanistan under a stable government there, which is in our national security interest.

This would really allow us to get the most out of all the CPEC infrastructure built so far, and really help rebuild the railways on a self funding basis.

Iran may get slapped with sanctions by a future American administration so building up our transit trade through them would be risky, while a “Turkic Route” may even be endorsed by the west as it is non-Russian, Non-Iranian, (and non-Chinese). This route would be the kind of route that would make Gwadar blossom with easy access to Central Asia.

This route could be of such importance if it becomes a fast rail route, that it would be tempting for India to negotiate on Kashmir (I know wishful thinking, but the Indian business community could be very influential in the ears of politicians in Delhi) for access to it, if it can significantly cut the cost and especially the time of shipping perishable items to Europe in a much more affordable way then air freight. Things like food stuffs (like lettuce) or flowers, etc. that could only be sold in the local market could get much higher prices in Europe. The faster we integrate into the markets of higher gdp per capita markets, the faster we can move off of reliance on remittances from labor, and build up a modern Pakistani industrial and agricultural base that will give more opportunities to the Pakistani workforce at home.

so in summary, transit trade to Europe through the “Turkic route”, supporting and doing value added processing from Afghan and our own (such as Reko-Diq) mines (lithium is more of the future then oil), and reinvesting in our industrial and agricultural base (to modernize it and make it as productive as any other country) will help employ our people, keep food prices low, and build a reliable economic foundation so that we are not dependent on the whims of foreign rulers allowing us to sending our labor to the GCC to earn remittances.

also we must be a fundamental part of the rebuilding of Afghanistan, just like Japan was fundamental to the us effort during the Korean War, or German industry was a part of rebuilding Western Europe during the Marshall plan. Construction business will boom and help employ millions if we can attract billions in western aid in this regard can be garnered after some form of amicable peace is achieved there, hence the need for the infra-Afghan dialogue needs to reach some kind of amicable and long term solution. Under the Afghan king, Afghanistan was always run as a confederation, where local cultures of the different regions were respected and allowed a degree of autonomy.

Keeping Iran’s hands off Herat will be where there will probably be the most fighting if there is to be this corridor to the Turkic world. So Iran will be no friend of Pakistan, not by a long shot. This is where we need Turkey’s help in convincing the Turkic peoples of Afghanistan to back this corridor and share in the business with the Pashtuns at the southern end of the corridor in Afghanistan. The corridor maybe what helps hold Afghanistan together, as it can become a reliable source of revenue for Afghanistan, along with the profits from the mines.

The key to this will be, that Pakistan and Afghanistan will need to try to get top dollar for these minerals and their value added products while getting the best deal on FDI to develop these mines. Both countries should learn from the Reko-Diq fiasco and not undervalue how strategic these minerals really are. If possible, mining should be done with human labor to save costs and employ a lot of people to keep as much of the money circulating within the two countries. This will be the last big opportunity both countries will have to really industrialize while they have such a young population. If done right, both countries could be at least equal to Iranian GDP per capita if not China’s level of current gdp per capita.

 

[El Sidd]

Hopefully 5G will help track and trace these minions of anti christ hell bent on equalling their dumb sectarian judgement day