Pakistan finalized Z-10ME Helicopters deal with China : Journalist Sumaira Khan

[IblinI]

any info regarding that? when will it be ready?

Big shrimps said it will be ready soon, but that was early last year, don't know the current status of the project.

 

[Super Falcon]

Deal will be for heaver helicopter.

Yes we need heavier halo woukd have better we chose ka 52

 

[Polestar 2]

Yes we need heavier halo woukd have better we chose ka 52

Ka-52 max ceiling height is 5500m only.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

What nonsense are you uttering?

If I remember things correctly, t was Pakistan who wanted a "peaceful existence" with India. I remember Pakistan launching Kargil while Indian PM Vajpayee visited Pakistan. Then there was PM Manmohan Singh's offer of talks but Pakistan refused, calling India a "dehti aurat."

The current BJP government is a response to Pakitan's attitude towards India, so don't complain.

Ohh your history begins from kargil only. Well go a little bit further, it was India who also started a similar operation at Siachen.
And no matter how many times Pakistani leaders had called for the peace talks which Indian counterparts always rejected it but you only remember a rare blue moon occasion of Manmohan Singh which was again a half hearted call for the talks.
And when current PM of Pakistan resumed his office, India was the first country whom he offered talks but India in fact responded it with Feb26 false bravado, only to get embarrassed very next day.

 

[TigerOfMysore]

What nonsense are you uttering?

If I remember things correctly, t was Pakistan who wanted a "peaceful existence" with India. I remember Pakistan launching Kargil while Indian PM Vajpayee visited Pakistan. Then there was PM Manmohan Singh's offer of talks but Pakistan refused, calling India a "dehti aurat."

The current BJP government is a response to Pakitan's attitude towards India, so don't complain.

1) Kashmir issue from 1948
2) Agartala conspiracy
3) Attack on International border in 1965
4) Sir Creek Ingress
5) Mukhti Bahini
6) Attack on Pakistan in 1971 to break Pakistan
7) Al Zulfiqar Group
8) Jeay Sindh
9) Working together with KHAD and KGB to launch wave of terror activities in 80s
10) Invading a non demarcated Siachen Glacier area in 80s
11) Shooting down an unarmed Navy plane within PK territory
12) Working with TTP to launch terror activities and killing thousand of Pakistanis
13) Actively funding our internal political process (Ackzai types plus Media)
14) Active funding an support of Baluch insurgency that kills hundreds of Pakistanis
15) Unilaterally changing the status of Kashmir against international law and Shimla agreement
16) Balakot and Surgical strike BS (highly dangerous and idiotic undertaking further cornering themselves)

Not to mention every small international group from ICCI to Davis cup - you name it - India is obsessively working against Pak interests. Anything positive for Pakistan becomes heartburn for you lot.
You guys have never accepted Pakistan. Talk to even sane Indian's and they parrot the "we should be one". Even sane Indians feel partition was their loss. Occasional bouts of "Amn Ke Aasha" are nothing more than shine and shimmer for your own seculars and the few idiots on our side of the border.

Kargil was payback for Siachen.
80s Sikh was payback for 1971.

India sets the stage in the sub-continent, PK is always in a reactive mode.

 

[SIPRA]

Ohh your history begins from kargil only. Well go a little bit further, it was India who also started a similar operation at Siachen.
And no matter how many times Pakistani leaders had called for the peace talks which Indian counterparts always rejected it but you only remember a rare blue moon occasion of Manmohan Singh which was again a half hearted call for the talks.
And when current PM of Pakistan resumed his office, India was the first country whom he offered talks but India in fact responded it with Feb26 false bravado, only to get embarrassed very next day.

This Hinditvadi scum is incorrigible, and, unfortunately, we have to deal with them, as they are.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Yes we need heavier halo woukd have better we chose ka 52

KA52 will likely not be considered, it serves a different role than Pakistan needs.

I read that Pakistan received 4 Mi35M

They did, they’re in service already, apparently 5 more were ordered but nothing has been heard of that order for a while now.

 

[Shotgunner51]

Is there any programme in China regarding heavy attack helicopter?

Heavy utility obviously, the heavier the better, but "heavy attack" is a good question.

From a supply perspective, like @luciferdd has mentioned the primary component aka 1600~1800kW WZ-10 turboshaft (which is massively used on Z-20 utility helos) is ready now, so it would be easy to construct a heavily-armored version of Z-10, or might as well license-build a Russian Ka-52 design with Chinese components. No technical barrier here.

But the real question is whether PLA wants it? I think drones and loitering munition may replace "flying tank" type of heavily armored helo, only "flying cavalry" type of manned helo remains useful in missions like ambush/recon, hunting HVT, escorting an air assault formation, etc especially in complicated terrains. With continuous improvement of powerplant (WZ-9C/AES100 turboshaft) and avionics, seems like Z-10 can well serve PLA needs in the coming decade as the primary manned attack helo, new investment will be on drones.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1464233480796008454

 

[iLION12345_1]

Heavy utility obviously, the heavier the better, but heavy attack is a question.

From a supply perspective, like @luciferdd has said the primary component aka 1600~1800kW WZ-10 turboshaft is ready now, would be easy to build a heavily-armored version of Z-10 or even faster to license-build a Russian Ka-52 design with Chinese components.

But the real question is whether PLA wants it? I think drones and loitering munition may replace "flying tank" type of heavily armored helo, while "flying cavalry" type of manned helo are still useful in missions like ambush/recon, hunting HVT, escorting an air assault formation, etc especially in complicated terrains. With continuous improvement of powerplant (WZ-9C/AES100 turboshaft) and avionics, I think Z-10 can well serve PLA needs in the coming decade, focus will be building drones.

Pakistan may still need the heavy gunship type of helicopter due to its armored doctrine in the Punjab and Sindh plains and deserts. It will basically be large armored offensives (or defensives) and helicopters are the best way to provide cover to those as they can hover at lower altitudes. China on the other hand may not need such a helicopter, but in that case there are other options in Turkey and maybe even Europe and Russia for Pakistan.

 

[Shotgunner51]

Pakistan may still need the heavy gunship type of helicopter due to its armored doctrine in the Punjab and Sindh plains and deserts. It will basically be large armored offensives (or defensives) and helicopters are the best way to provide cover to those as they can hover at lower altitudes. China on the other hand may not need such a helicopter, but in that case there are other options in Turkey and maybe even Europe and Russia for Pakistan.

Yes what I was saying is PLA-specific and why there might not be a heavily-armored manned helo from CAIC industry. I'm sure PA has different needs like you've mentioned, I also think Ka-52 powered by a pair of Klimov VK-2500 is an excellent helo if not unique in this category, in fact there are rumors (unofficial) that PLAN Marines is interested in its LHD/LPD-friendly compact design, and that its heavy armor can counter enemy fire at beachheads.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Yes but never at the expense of developing a rainbow coalition of Helis. PK is all over the map in terms of attack, lift, ASw, SpecOps across the services. The fact that we plan on injecting another platform in our attack helo strategy speaks to a high level of urgency ( esp since Ataks are still on card). This will make it a potential third or fourth type. That speaks to the structural weakness in our Cobra fleet which was heavily worn out during Fata ops.

Pak should go for the local production with the 10-ton ATAK-2 having the Ukrainian engines...

 

[Shotgunner51]

Pak should go for the local production with the 10-ton ATAK-2 having the Ukrainian engines...

Yes for the long run. For now I believe Pak will eventually get those already-made AH-1Z, as well as getting the T129 delivered, obstacles are purely political (perhaps US internal politics as well), relationship between Pak (along with Turkey) and US isn't bad at all if not only getting better, the helos are a matter of re-negotiation of political terms.

 

[Super Falcon]

KA52 will likely not be considered, it serves a different role than Pakistan needs.

They did, they’re in service already, apparently 5 more were ordered but nothing has been heard of that order for a while now.

Tell me what role KA 52 can do anything these can fire anti tanks as z 10

Z 10 are light weight than KA 52 we need heavyweight attack halos with them or buy them for pak marines they need them badly

 

[MastanKhan]

it’s been nearly 40 years since AH-1 entered service if we have to wait few years for T129 or even ATAK II we should wait

Hi,

Sounds like you never been in combat.

Thanks for mention 40 years, I dont think Pakistan can wait anymore. There is a limit of waiting and Turkey indigenous engine program materialized has a big question mark. Shall Pakistan go for a ready product or continue to wait for future with big question mark? I think Pakistan army already make a decision.

Hi,

Thanks for your post.

Majority pakistanis have no concept of the NOW NEED of a weapons system..

 

[TigerOfMysore]

Your laundry list of events proves nothing. Only a Pakistani would say that it was never their fault; that Pakistan is always the victim vis a vis India. No one is buying Pakistan's narrative on this.



If PM Singh's offer of talks was half-hearted so was Pakistan's response to them. But now Pakistan wants to talk? What changed? A lot.

Nevertheless, I don't want to get off-topic on this thread. The idea that India will launch some kind of major attack on Pakistan is remote regardless of the saber-rattling by Indian politicos. Pakistan can get any attack helicopter it wants. Let's call this for what it is: Pakistan's desperate attempt to achieve conventional parity with India.

Yes. Pakistan is a victim of India's policies and aggression. And no I don't care if anyone else believes it or not. India as an entity is a dangerous entity for the region and the world at large.
If the world has not caught up to that fact it is their issue. With time they will. Infact more people today are buying this as BJP and Hindu facists are proving exactly what Pakistan as been saying now for 70+ years.

What the British left was a system of colonialism in the hands of the Hindu Caste elitists. The entire machinery of an overlorded system put in place by the British (the Army, the Bureaucracy, the Judiciary) just changed hands and is in now firmly under control of Hindu Brahmins. BJP is a perfect manifestation of that. And all of this is at the expense of the marginalized. From Dalits, to Muslims, Christians, Sikhs - all minorities in India need to wake up to the nightmare India is and will likely become in the future. Minorities in India need to wake up and fight for their rights or they'll cease to exist with time. And as Human's whether it is Pakistanis or any human of conscience we must support all people in India marginalized by the facist system that is India to break out of the shackles that the Hindu Brahmin system and its enablers perpetuate.

This struggle is the struggle for India for the next 50 years and more, and Pakistan, China and all countries need to fund, support and help the poor people of India in their pursuit of true freedom.
Whether Christ, Allah or Bhagvaan, whatever you believe in or even if you are a secular, all need to come together and help the poor people of India. At the end of it the sub-continent of India might need to be re-partitioned for better alignment and governance, so people can get their rights and truly push out the power of imperialism from Dehli.

Though I have little care for this fellow as he still clings on to his power and his political status in a system that kills his people: But nevertheless worth watching every minute of this to give muslims in Pakistan and in India a picture of reality. A man who throughout his life supported the notion of Kashmir under the federation of India cries. Muslims in India and other effected minorities in India need to fight for their rights. Crying and sobbing and hoping and praying will get them nothing but a slow genocide. Federation of India has a hatred for Muslims in their heart - and is pushing a system of apartheid on them. Pure and simple.