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Pakistan finalized Z-10ME Helicopters deal with China : Journalist Sumaira Khan

The Z-10ME would've been even more wicked had it of had retractable gear. Not sure how fast these are compared to the Apaches, but do wonder how much drag they produce with the landing gear hanging.


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@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @iLION12345_1
Retractable landing gear is not desirable for military gunship. Yes, it caused drag but as a close support platform. Very likely it will suffer enemy fire and crashed. The heavy landing gear act as a crash impact absorber when emergency landing happened compare to retractable which the mechanism might have jam in case of enemy fire damaging it and not able to release the landing gear in time for crash landing.
 
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Anyways, whether you like it or not, the Z-10 is on its way to PA sooner than people expect. Bye, Bye T129 - lets move on.
 
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Getting 40 Z-10 between 2022-2023 and 40 T-129 in 2025 seems like an attainable objective
I am of an opinion the Z-10 and T-129 should be the two Gunship platforms for Pakistan Army

Cobra should be put in reserves or retired transferred to border security forces
Again; Both will not happen, no offense but that’s a very stupid idea. It will be a massive logistical burden for no reason at all. ME is more capable and has a better future. They’re from the exact same weight class, why in the world would PA buy 40 of each instead of 80 of one?
the PA test pilots said the Z10 wasn't the best but made the best memories

another words it was second choice after T129

PA wanted T129 its just a shame it didn't work out very bad

Z10 in the high altitude tests very badly
Might be my 12th time repeating this; the Z10 that did badly in “high altitude Tests” (it didn’t) and the Z-10 that did badly in desert and engine stress testing (which was the actual issue given the lack of a proper engine filtration system and weaker engines) is not the one PA is buying, the ME comes with new more powerful engines and a better filtration system to fix said problem. It’s better than the T129. PA likely wanted the T129 due to the then superior engine and better credit lines available through turkey. FYI PLAN/PLAAF has already used the non upgraded “poorly performing in high altitude” Z-10Ks and Z-10Ms in ladakh against India, it did fine there. I mean no offense to the Turkish users here, the T129 is great, that’s why we picked it first and would have stuck to it if the option was there, but certain uses are acting like we’re making a major compromise by buying the Z10ME when it’s literally equal or better to the T129, while also being sanction free.
 
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the PA test pilots said the Z10 wasn't the best but made the best memories

another words it was second choice after T129

PA wanted T129 its just a shame it didn't work out very bad

Z10 in the high altitude tests very badly
Are these comments for the earlier z10 or the latest z10me ?
 
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10-ton ATAK-2 will have the engine integration in 2022, according to the TAI boss Prof Dr Temel Kotil in the following video. They don't bluff for a living....

It got same engine what Mi17 has good heavy Heli choice for PAA
 
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The PAA's focused more on the following:
  1. Endurance / Range
  2. Hot Temperature Performance
  3. Sand Filtration
  4. High-Altitude Operations
The medium-weight helicopter (Z-10ME) will be the PAA's workhorse. The PAA will deploy the system in most of its operational environments. The last time the PAA set an official number to the workhorse was back in the late 1980s. It wanted 60 AH-1S/F. Even though the Z-10ME and ATAK are larger and much more capable than the legacy Cobra, I believe the PAA wants to stick to that 60-strong figure. In other words, it wants a massive capability upgrade. On this front, a big benefit of the Z-10ME is the ability to draw on China's big economies of scale and, potentially, get these aircraft at a pretty good price.

The heavyweight requirement is pretty interesting. Definitely, we can make a case it was for the added payload, but the AH-1Z was also (by design) good for sea-based and coastal operations thanks to its USMC blood. It makes me wonder if the PAA had opted for the AH-1Z so that it could one day support PN Marines operations to an extent (@Signalian). So, if that is the case, the next heavyweight competitor would need to have range, payload, and salt-erosion-proofing. I imagine China is working on something along these lines for its own amphibious needs, so an Apache-Viper hybrid could be a thing. Otherwise, I think the Turks are pretty much onboard with the idea for ATAK-2 as they too would probably use it at sea.

It's a shame we couldn't leverage the AH-1Z route. The cost was good and the USMC has started storing a few airframes that we could've requested. It wouldn't have been a problem to build a fleet of 30 AH-1Zs plus a couple of dozen UH-1Y for SSG and SSG Navy operations IMHO.

The Pakistani navy couldn’t arm the Turkish FAC MRTP-33 with Harpoon anti ship missile, because the US didn’t permission it. That case should have been lesson enough for Pakistan doing deals with turkeys defensive industry, which is not independent from the US restrictions.
 
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'hopefully, hopefully'

Seems China may be finally willing to sell us the top grade Z10 now instead of the lower grade that was offered earlier.
 
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10-ton ATAK-2 will have the engine integration in 2022, according to the TAI boss Prof Dr Temel Kotil in the following video. They don't bluff for a living....


Beautiful Machine
Again; Both will not happen, no offense but that’s a very stupid idea. It will be a massive logistical burden for no reason at all. ME is more capable and has a better future. They’re from the exact same weight class, why in the world would PA buy 40 of each instead of 80 of one?

Might be my 12th time repeating this; the Z10 that did badly in “high altitude Tests” (it didn’t) and the Z-10 that did badly in desert and engine stress testing (which was the actual issue given the lack of a proper engine filtration system and weaker engines) is not the one PA is buying, the ME comes with new more powerful engines and a better filtration system to fix said problem. It’s better than the T129. PA likely wanted the T129 due to the then superior engine and better credit lines available through turkey. FYI PLAN/PLAAF has already used the non upgraded “poorly performing in high altitude” Z-10Ks and Z-10Ms in ladakh against India, it did fine there. I mean no offense to the Turkish users here, the T129 is great, that’s why we picked it first and would have stuck to it if the option was there, but certain uses are acting like we’re making a major compromise by buying the Z10ME when it’s literally equal or better to the T129, while also being sanction free.



Pakistan has no shortage of Human Resources or Engineers
Z-10 And T-129 , offer ample knowledge

We need to shift our focus away from 1970's Cobra to Machines engineered/designed in last 10 years

There is ample room to grow the two platforms simultaneously as there is a chronic shortage of Modern Gunships

Yes we have some Choppers with makeshift , machine guns (Bell etc.) but we need platforms which can go against Apache caliber opponents (as India has such gunships) not necessarily 1 vs 1 but in term of advantage on ground battle

The two birds Z-10 and T-129 are very similar platforms


  • Z-10 between 2022 and 2023
  • T-129 between 2023-2025 (With new Turkish Engine)

Turkey will be done with their platform soon so there is no major rush it's a dependable defensive equipment provider

However the need for modernization is there to move to current generation platforms
 
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As a result of delays, Pakistan decided to cancel the acquisition of 30 T129 ATAK attack helicopters it ordered in 2018 and instead negotiates with China for the purchase of the Z-10ME.

According to several sources, the Director-General of Inter-Services Public Relations of the Pakistani Armed Forces confirmed the cancellation of the contract with Turkey and the ongoing talks for the purchase of Z-10ME attack helicopters from China.

The external restriction

The deal signed in 2018 with Turkish Aerospace Industries for some 30 T129 ATAK helicopters, valued at $1.5 billion, experienced significant delays due to the lack of permission from the U.S. for the export of the LHTEC T800-4A engines, which is a variant of the CTS800 engine, jointly developed by Honeywell and Rolls-Royce. It has a length of 0.85 m, a diameter of 0.56 m, weighs about 154 kg, and develops a power output of 1,014 kW. The T-129 carries 2 of these.

This export permit was recently granted to the Philippines, which had negotiated the purchase of six units, also in 2018. According to the latest available information, the first units of the Philippine T129s would have been received in December.


Other potential customers interested in the Turkish helicopter are Morocco ( 22 units), Irak (12 units), and the Nigerian Air Force has also shown interest in the model. But as long as the ATAK does not see its American engines replaced by others of Ukrainian or Turkish origin, its export potential will be limited by the diplomatic relations between the U.S. and the interested nations.

CATIC Z-10
According to its manufacturer, the Z10ME is an advanced attack helicopter in the 6-ton category, which has day/night combat capability and can carry a variety of weapons such as air-to-ground missiles, air-to-air missiles, rockets, and cannons.

The Z10ME is capable of carrying out attacks on fortifications, armored and non-armored mobile ground targets, as well as attacking air targets such as enemy helicopters.

Z-10ME

In terms of performance, capabilities, sensors, and equipment, it is a weapon system equivalent to the T129 ATAK, which should replace it.

If the purchase is completed, Pakistan would become the first export customer of the Chinese helicopter, just as it was the first foreign customer of the J-10CE, acquired to cope with the Indian Air Force’s purchase of the Dassault Rafale.

 
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