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Pakistan Federal Budget FY 2020-21: Analysis and Discussion Thread

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When Nawaz Sharif prematurely ended the IMF program mid way through, Christine Lagarde clearly said there are 'structural problems which if not addressed will lead to a relapse'. The other 'achievement' of this traitor is getting Pakistan out of the gray list. During his time Pakistan had a healthy rating from Moody's etc.

Question: Credit rating companies such as Moody's were completely unaware of the 'structural problems' hinted by Christine Lagarde? They had no idea of the massive debt levels being piled up, which would be payable in a few years?

Question: What did we get by moving out of the grey list?
Answer: The ability to pile up massive debt, after which we were sent back to the grey list.

Nawaz Sharif gets the boot, and the traitor Bajwa does a conference in Karachi about the economy. The establishment knew full well what was going on, yet nothing was done because they had to uphold 'democratic values'.

As soon as Imran Khan comes in, all of a sudden everyone becomes aware of the huge Credit Accound Deficit. Along with that comes the FATF pressure.

It is evident to even a casual observer that the debt and the FATF grilling have been engineered. And we have seen how it has benefited the enemy: silence on Kashmir. And Imran Khan is the perfect face of this submission with his pacifist approach.

I can tell you on good authority that the final aim is the breakup of Pakistan into 4 different countries and of course de-nuclearization. Zardari, Nawaz, Bajwa, Imran they are all facilitators towards this final aim of their masters.
I have a different view. Actually abruptly ending IMF programme is no big deal on its own. Tomorrow if the government decides, we don’t need more debt and dollars, we can sustain ourselves and begin to ease IMF imposed restrictions, that would be okay. Lagarde’s comments about structural imbalances are true, and even she didn’t predict the foolhardy use of SBP reserves to peg PKR at a lower rate. There were economic objectives in this policy, but I say it was largely miscalculated and certainly not worth the cost of uncompetitive exports, burgeoning imports, deterioration of balance of payments and eventual back to square one with bailouts. And it wasn’t debt accumulation that caused this as you’ve said above, it was an imbalance that has been endemic since the mid-2000s, and even before but with a brief pause in between.
Moody’s reports I read for corporates and debt markets all the time, so I understand what makes them, hell I even speak to some guys in their head offices once in a while when I have a specific question. To explain why we had a stable outlook at that time is simple, when quitting IMF programme, we were okay. What we did between then and 2018 as a result of economic policies is what caused a spiralling current account crisis as you mentioned.

I think you are reading bad intent into the people who did this. Believe me, this is a clear cut case of stupidity and shortsightedness, not much to do with conspiracy.
 
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Nawaz Sharif, Maryam Nawaz and Captain Safdar were convicted for having assets beyond means (corruption) due to their failure of providing money trail that establishes ownership to their London flats. If the flats in question were purchased legally, they would have no problem to show its proofs in court. Yet NS and her daughter kept denying ownership of those flats where they are currently hiding.
Recent NAB cases are another matter, they are not examples (yet) of corruption convictions (verdict reached by court etc.). So far the disqualification was premised solely on the story I explained in that other thread. Let’s cont. there if you wish. :tup:

Also apologies to both you and @CriticalThought if these posts are hard to read, I’m hastily typing on the phone and not really proofreading.
 
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What we did between then and 2018 as a result of economic policies is what caused a spiralling current account crisis as you mentioned.
Yeah we went straight into CPEC induced debt trap after exiting IMF program. Congratulations you figured this one out.

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I have a different view. Actually abruptly ending IMF programme is no big deal on its own. Tomorrow if the government decides, we don’t need more debt and dollars, we can sustain ourselves and begin to ease IMF imposed restrictions, that would be okay. Lagarde’s comments about structural imbalances are true, and even she didn’t predict the foolhardy use of SBP reserves to peg PKR at a lower rate. There were economic objectives in this policy, but I say it was largely miscalculated and certainly not worth the cost of uncompetitive exports, burgeoning imports, deterioration of balance of payments and eventual back to square one with bailouts. And it wasn’t debt accumulation that caused this as you’ve said above, it was an imbalance that has been endemic since the mid-2000s, and even before but with a brief pause in between.
Moody’s reports I read for corporates and debt markets all the time, so I understand what makes them, hell I even speak to some guys in their head offices once in a while when I have a specific question. To explain why we had a stable outlook at that time is simple, when quitting IMF programme, we were okay. What we did between then and 2018 as a result of economic policies is what caused a spiralling current account crisis as you mentioned.

I think you are reading bad intent into the people who did this. Believe me, this is a clear cut case of stupidity and shortsightedness, not much to do with conspiracy.

Credit ratings are used by creditors to give loans that will be returned in the future. These ratings convey a country's ability to return loans in the future, not in the present. There is simply no denying that the credit ratings were engineered. You can live in denial. I know first hand what enemies are saying.
 
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The holder of the title COAS. There is the post of COAS, and there is the man Bajwa holding that post. Two different things.
So you are accusing COAS General Bajwa who heads armed forces of the State of Pakistan for being part of a plan to breakup Pakistan? How intelligent of you again!
 
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I have a different view. Actually abruptly ending IMF programme is no big deal on its own. Tomorrow if the government decides, we don’t need more debt and dollars, we can sustain ourselves and begin to ease IMF imposed restrictions, that would be okay. Lagarde’s comments about structural imbalances are true, and even she didn’t predict the foolhardy use of SBP reserves to peg PKR at a lower rate. There were economic objectives in this policy, but I say it was largely miscalculated and certainly not worth the cost of uncompetitive exports, burgeoning imports, deterioration of balance of payments and eventual back to square one with bailouts. And it wasn’t debt accumulation that caused this as you’ve said above, it was an imbalance that has been endemic since the mid-2000s, and even before but with a brief pause in between.
Moody’s reports I read for corporates and debt markets all the time, so I understand what makes them, hell I even speak to some guys in their head offices once in a while when I have a specific question. To explain why we had a stable outlook at that time is simple, when quitting IMF programme, we were okay. What we did between then and 2018 as a result of economic policies is what caused a spiralling current account crisis as you mentioned.

I think you are reading bad intent into the people who did this. Believe me, this is a clear cut case of stupidity and shortsightedness, not much to do with conspiracy.

Oh, by the way, let's not confuse debt accumulation with the out of whack CAD. The piling debt is the poison. The out of whack is the cancer which means we can't even fight this poison. The enemy made doubly, triply sure to pressurize us with all it has.

So you are accusing COAS General Bajwa who heads armed forces of the State of Pakistan for being part of a plan to breakup Pakistan? How intelligent of you again!

Wasn't Pakistan broken under Gen. Yahya Khan? Don't try to act overly smart.
 
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Oh, by the way, let's not confuse debt accumulation with the out of whack CAD.
Lol. Debt accumulation is the direct result of persistent and massive trade / current account deficits.
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Wasn't Pakistan broken under Gen. Yahya Khan? Don't try to act overly smart.
No. It happened under opposition leader Bhutto who persuaded Yahya to let him become PM, despite losing elections big time.
 
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Yeah we went straight into CPEC induced debt trap after exiting IMF program. Congratulations you figured this one out.

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Actually the CPEC debt is really not a big issue. It’s very sustainable, cheap and also the projects underlying it are massively beneficial. It’s the multi-lateral lenders (IMF, IBRD/WB) debt that is expensive and makes up a large proportion of our debt servicing. Sorry to keep pointing you to previous posts, but here’s another specifically on CPEC debt:

As for CPEC, I would like to set your mind at ease. Seriously, CPEC is in view is such a massive blessing, I've made a thread or two about it in the past. Haven't said much about financing aspect, I was more focused on the projects in the portfolio. :)

Let's just take a look at early harvest projects alone. Just under USD20bn worth of projects fall in this category. Of that, there are three forms of financing: a) Loans with sovereign guarantees, b) Commercial loans (private sector), c) Equity/private investment. The breakdown if I recall correctly was USD6bn in sovereign debt, USD~10bn in commercial loans, and a smaller proportion in equity. So total is just around USD20bn, again this number is smaller because we're only counting early harvest projects. Now if I recall correctly, we have >USD100bn in total external debt, that would mean early harvest CPEC sovereign loans only make up a small proportion.

Now here's the real kicker... Do you know what the interest rate on those sovereign guaranteed loans was according to Chinese official sources? 2%, and the repayment period? 20-25 years....:D

The Chinese could've literally parked that some of that money in UST and their returns would be better. Also, the real concern for us isn't CPEC debt, but as you pointed out the debt owed to western countries and western capital markets institutions in the form multilateral loans. I can't remember what proportion of our forex outflows go on servicing interest/debt on those multilateral loans, but it's huge compared to CPEC loans. Heck even the CPEC commercial loans I mentioned, the ones without sov guarantees, their rates are like 5%.

I know you'd be surprised to hear some of this, there's so much fear-mongering about CPEC. Anyway, on the question of refinancing (should the need ever arise), there are two approaches to looking at this. The hard-nosed market based approach which I believe isn't so relevant, and there's the more specific approach that takes into account political goals/bilateral aims, image building, historic relations between Pakistan, and the internal state of the Chinese economy. Again I don't want to bog this post down with details, but refinancing IMO would not present as big of a hurdle as it seems. Let's put aside where rates are at, our credit risk (sovereign), Chinese required rates, currency risk/swaps, current IBOR/benchmark rates vs prior, terms etc.

In my estimation, it is well within the interests of China to see CPEC succeed and not place excessive debt burdens on Pakistan, besides the money, they've investment far more political capital into their BRI initiatives. If we ever reach a more dire state, want to know what I think we might see happening between us and the Chinese? Refinancing for sure, deferments, changes in terms. We even might end up with some write-offs/debt forgiveness, sure concessions aren't one-sided, but I certainly can't envisage any scenario where the Chinese don't treat us with kid-gloves on this matter. And on the subject, I believe the Chinese have already refinanced tens of billions USD in loans to Angola, Ukraine, Sri Lanka etc. So, need for refinancing CPEC debt isn't there IMO, and even if it was, I think it'd be a lot simpler than what we might conclude ignoring all those other aspects I've alluded to.

Credit ratings are used by creditors to give loans that will be returned in the future. These ratings convey a country's ability to return loans in the future, not in the present. There is simply no denying that the credit ratings were engineered. You can live in denial. I know first hand what enemies are saying.
Let’s agree to disagree then. I know the analysts that write some of these reports, have met them in real life. Whenever something is incorrect or inexplicable, I’ve contacted them directly as a client. But anyway, I suppose I can’t disprove what you’re saying, only make the arguments I made earlier.
 
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Actually the CPEC debt is really not a big issue. It’s very sustainable, cheap and also the projects underlying it are massively beneficial.
Of course it is an issue as it caused massive trade and current account deficits, and forced Pakistan into IMF hands again.
 
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Of course it is an issue as it caused massive trade and current account deficits, and forced Pakistan into IMF hands again.

Agree, should have been managed a lot better, same with all of the current outflows. Hopefully the current government breaks this chain of mismanagement.
 
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